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suffolkgal
4/15/2008
06:58:29
[ report abuse ] |
 Subject: Leagues are a complete MESS
Message:
suffolkgal
4/15/2008
03:19:57
Subject: The Leagues are a Mess
Message:
Why it's a mess
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D1 - 399 players - Min rating 1266 - Max rating 1986
D2 - 523 players - Min rating 1016 - Max rating 1768
D3 - 280 players - Min rating 719 - Max rating 1638
None of the C or E divisions have more than 72 players.
Playing players within 200 +/- rating makes sense, but what is the point in having players with over 700 points difference in rating in the same league?
This is forcing a situation whereby, to get promoted, high ranked players in the league pick off the low ranked players for the easiest points. It would hardly improve the game of the high ranked player, and it's not much fun for the low ranked player.
I feel that the league system needs a total revamp:
1. An equal number of players in every division.
2. Appropriate numbers of promotions and demotions to keep it that way, taking into account new players joining Gameknot and players leaving.
My view is not an isolated one, I have had replies from my team that agree with me.
Can Gameknot please do something about this?
Thank you in antcipation, Jenny
heinzkat
4/15/2008
04:42:59
Yes, there are some changes
Message:
That would be needed. This has been discussed in the past, I know for sure, but I think the easiest solution here would be
- All players with 10 or more points will get promoted to the next higher division and players with -10 or less points will get relegated to the next lower division. If a division has more than 30 players, top 5 players will also get promoted and bottom 5 players will be relegated. In case a division has more than 60 players, 10 players will be promoted and 10 relegated. In case a division has more than 120 players, 20 players will be promoted and 20 relegated. In case a division has more than 240 players, 40 players will be promoted and 40 relegated. Only players with 3 or more completed games can be promoted/relegated.
What do you think? The league isn't 'perfect', never has been, but this seems a bit sensible...?
suffolkgal
4/15/2008
06:49:36
Some comments from my team members
Message:
I am sure my team won't mind if I post these particular private messages onto the forum. Everyone in the team that has replied to me feels the same way i do.
So now it's down to Gameknot to do something about it!! (please!)
====================================
Private message from catmando:
Hi Jenny,
I think one of the main issues with the League is that anyone new joining the league automatically begins in the same division (I think it's D1 or C3, I can't remember?)
There also is never a real ending to League play. It's just goes on indefinetely with a player moving up and down through divisions. There should be "League Championships" at some point, I would think?
Cheers, Ray
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Private message from aannett:
Hello, suffolkgal!
Yes, there is a lot of players.
I only played a very short time in league play, so don't know much about it. I took a look at some of the other Divisions and there is some ratings that are 450+ apart.
The only thing that I can think of is what someone to come up with a new system.
Sorry I'm not much help on this one.
You could write this up and put it in gameknot forum and see what kind if answer you get from it. ....... Al .....
=========================================
Private message from devalangin:
Hello, suffolkgal!
I completely agree, that is one of the reasons that I don't play in the league games any longer. Players end up completely dominating other players in the same division. That is completely against the purpose of divisions. And since you have to accept a challenge from within a league, it means that stronger players can challenge significantly weaker players even though they might be about to move divisions. The current system can be "gamed" too much. It is too easy to manipulate. I don't want to have to think about how to cheat the system if I participate in the league games, but everyone is forced to because it puts them at a disadvantage if they do not. It isn't any fun to always worry about things like that and it also isn't fun to be forced to play an opponent that should not be in the same division.
suffolkgal
4/15/2008
06:55:25
Reply to: heinzkat
Message:
Hello Heinz,
I think your suggestions are excellent. I also feel it is currently so badly in need of a drastic fix an even more radical solution would work as the initial remedy.
Total up how many players there are in ALL the Divisions. Divide that number by how many divisions there are and equally allocate players to each division based on their current league +/- score.
Then at the end of each month, repeat this procedure, plus allocate x number of places for promotion and demotion.
Pretty much anything has to be better than the current unplayable system. I feel sure even more players would join the Leagues if a good system was in place.
Come on Gameknot!! Let's hear from you :-) !!!
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cyberknight999
4/15/2008
10:50:59
[ report abuse ] | The League Could be Better...
Message:
But the best way to communicate this to GK is send a message to the webmaster!
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suffolkgal
4/15/2008
18:11:05
[ report abuse ] | Reply to: cyberknight999
Message:
Hi Cyber,
I agree, but perhaps not a bad idea to see what everyone thinks first?
Jenny
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angellis
4/16/2008
01:21:39
[ report abuse ] | Leagues are a MESS
Message:
I couldn't agree more, yes the league set up is a mess at the moment. Certainly each division should be organised to contain the same number of players, with perhaps the middle level division acting as a feeder or entry point, even if that means this division contains more players than the rest as an exception.
My suggestion for renewed set up would then be :-
1) All divisions except the middle one would have equal numbers of players
2) Middle division would be the feed in division for new players
3) Top ten players in each division (except the highest division of course) would be promoted every fourth Sunday
4) Bottom ten players from each division would be relegated every fourth Sunday ie. promoted players swop with the relevant relegated players and vice versa!
5) Newly joined players would slot into the system from the central level division
Hopefully the four week time span would help to get more league games finished with both players still in the same division!
These are just my opinions on how some of the points brought up in this thread might be addressed
Lisa
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wrecktangle
4/16/2008
20:49:30
[ report abuse ] | scoring is wacked too...
Message:
...I get challenged by folks who are about to drop into a new section (wins are now scored as 0.5 with draws at -0.5) so to compensate I challenge those that are just about to jump into a higher section.
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suffolkgal
4/17/2008
18:08:57
[ report abuse ] | reply to:angellis
Message:
Hi Lisa,
Nice ideas, now let's see if we can get Gameknot to do something!
Jenny
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suffolkgal
4/17/2008
18:09:50
[ report abuse ] | reply to: wrecktangle
Message:
I agree, I see no reason to change the 1 point a game regardless.
Jenny
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wuzzie
4/25/2008
04:39:56
[ report abuse ] | suggestions
Message:
everyone new could start in F3 at the bottom bottom and work their way up :)
but then it would take a little longer to climb up the ladder and that is less atractive for stronger players.
Eventually you will reach your division limit. whether you are all put in F3 or D1... and falling down is easier than climbing up, probably there was a time no one was even in B1... and there wil be a time there will be 20 in A1.
maybe the dividing of new players could be more subtle:
0-1000 in F3
1000-1100 in F2
1100-1200 in F1
1200-1300 in E3
1300-1400 in E2
1400-1500 in E1
1500-1600 in D3
1600-1700 in D2
1700-1800 in D1
1800-1900 in C3
1900-2000 in C2
2000+ in C1
the B's and A's still have to be earned
maybe one should be prevented to be able to challenge players with a rating difference of more than 200 points, so people cannot cheat in getting higher.
maybe if you are promoted, a win against someone of a lower division should be +0.5, but a loss should stay -1, only if the difference is 2 divisions it could be -2
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derman53
5/10/2008
06:26:00
[ report abuse ] | Staus Quo
Message:
I think he leagues ae OK he way they are for the most part. I like the competaive naure and the ups and downs of the league. The one enhancement I would like to see is the last division a player was in upon retirement from the league. After all the games still count in the league for the other player but I have no way of telling how a game will affect my stats.
Changing the league every month would destroy the nature of the league. After all they ae very similar to ladders and you get promoted to the next level (or demoted) based upon your ablity and that of your competition.
The complaint about the numbrer of games and only being able to challenge certain people. Sure, what's wrong with that? I purposely choose six as the number of games I play and if you look at my profile I have over 100 League games. This way I control who I play and not let the higher rated player use me for point bait.
As the old saying goes "If it ain't broke don't fix it - just tweak it a bit."
DERMAN
P.S. Learn to play the system - don't let it play you.
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wrecktangle
5/10/2008
09:58:34
[ report abuse ] | Maybe a new ladder?
Message:
I think too many folks are invested in the leagues as they are. I hate the point system, but can live with it.
How about another ladder system in addition to league? All linear according to rating initially but with rating stripped off. The you can challenge anyone with a place 200 positions higher than you. If you win you take the place of the higher player and they move down 1/2 the difference of places at the end of play.
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