| From | Message |
gameknot_com
7/18/2004
20:52:23
[ report this post ] |
 Subject: Only premium subscribers can be team captains
Message:
The requirement of a premium subscription to start a new team is over one and a half years old. It has never been strictly enforced before -- if a team captain cancelled his/her premium subscription, they were allowed to continue to be a team captain. It turns out, almost 40% of all team captains right now are not premium subscribers. Which is not only unfair to other team captains, but clearly an abuse of the system. Hence the need to make sure that all team captains are premium subscribers from now on.
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astinkyfart
7/18/2004
21:01:33
[ report this post ] | preminum subcribers
Message:
does this mean any paid membership. does it matter the type of membership??
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kumpan
7/18/2004
21:12:10
[ report this post ] | I just found that
Message:
Chess teams rules:
7. Only premium subscribers with Platinum or Titanium memberships can start a new team;
Chessfriendly Yours
Daniel
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gameknot_com
7/18/2004
22:57:37
[ report this post ] |
Message:
To make the transition easier for everybody, any premium membership will do.
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hdhyatt
7/19/2004
07:09:41
[ report this post ] |
Message:
I disagree. When I started my team, the only requirement I remember was a minimum number of games had to have been completed OR premium membership.
It is the team captains who don't want premium membership, and their teammates, who are being treated unfairly.
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gameknot_com
7/19/2004
08:33:02
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Team captains who don't want premium membership?! Believe it or not, hdhyatt, but everything in this world costs money. And if you are not paying for it, that means someone else is paying for it. Team play is one of the most complex systems in GameKnot's software, and team captains continue to demand more improvements to it every month. Not only that, but teams tend to be very active, with thousands of games played daily. With the advertising rates constantly falling, ads don't provide enough revenue to cover the expenses any more. It's either this, or closing the teams altogether...
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thomaswolf
7/19/2004
08:36:15
[ report this post ] | Profiteering and blackmailing !!!
Message:
Hello ;-((((
I'm in GK since more of 2 years and it's becoming more and more and more commercial and less and less and less friendly site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good cover the "to be fair" for make a very good pay day!!!
There are 68 team captain in the same situation then like the acoount of GK show to them 68 * $30 = $ 2040 !!!!!!!!! Not so bad....
But what the human resource from GK don't show to them it's 68 (maybe not all because will be like usually weak peoples who accept blackmailing) captains less , 68 teams less and many and many desapointed players (around 1000)!!!!!!!
Why change the rule on the way ?????? I was paid member when I started my team (like it was in the regulations) even a this time (when it's was still a friendly site) if you had finished I think 50 games you were allowing to start a team!Of course a this time they need us for build theire site and be more powerful and becoming stronger and can dictate more and more!!!!
But what they don't understand or he don't understand , Mike , it's that it's with the non paid members that this site is great too!!! I can understand (it's for that I was pais member during one year) that this good work and the cost of maintening it (server , ....) merite paid but if you want only a paid member site (will arrive soon...) you will be desapointed because will be not so many peoples around all over the world who make so nice this site!!!
In more the way you did is low , very low and the name of it it's not "be fair" but "BLACKMAILING" !!!!
And like myself and lot of the captains I contacted (Yes I sent messages of all team captains in the same situations for take some actions together) we will not accept this blackmailing , no way and will be the end of lot of teams ;-(((
You will trought in the garbage lot of work , passion , friendship , ....!!!!!
I hope that you will change your decision because it's not fair and right !!!
It's like to give a land free to some peoples for he build his house in a not busy area and after when this area is becoming popular decide to ask him to pay for it!!!!
Now I'm not sure that this message will be post or will stay long because he's not politicaly correct !!!
By the way , it's about CHESS we are talking about ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I'm really desapointed , really ;-(((((((((((((((((
Regards
Thomas Wolf
Captain of The Dolphins
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maca
7/19/2004
08:45:24
[ report this post ] | I agree...
Message:
Well, I'm not a team captain, but I do understand why is it that only members can start teams, and I don't think it's unfair (as you can see, I'm not a paid member). I also understand how complicated team system is, and (thanks for you, Mike) it's great, indeed.
BUT:
in my apinion, just becouse teams are so popular, it should be that any kind of paid member should be able to start a team, just as Mike said, if i understood correctly. If platinium or titanium members only could start and upkeep teams, it would be a disaster, becouse there are very few platinium and titanium member, and there would be a huge amounts of teams left without captain, which is impossible, and several teams would end up without possibility to continue its actions.
MaCa
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flyordie
7/19/2004
09:12:03
[ report this post ] |
Message:
I have been very close to my team and now you tell me that if I want to be a captain anylonger I have to pay. A lot of injustice has been done but this is to much!
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pandemona
7/19/2004
09:32:27
[ report this post ] |
Message:
All this moralising is irrelevant. Justice, injustice, he's the man with the wallet!
There's no such thing as a free lunch, even (especially?) on the internet! C'mon, you think that if Mike wanted to extort and blackmail he would run a CHESS site?! The teams are a big part of GK and a big part of the site's appeal.
Seems like insisting that at least one team member (the captain, who else?) is a premium member goes a good way to keep income in proportion with the resources the teams devour. That sounds like a solid business model to me...
~ Stephen / pandemona
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vdemian
7/19/2004
09:57:28
[ report this post ] | A message to the Webmaster
Message:
This has also been sent directly. It is self explanatory...
Hello,
Our team captain "flyordie" (Romania) has received the following message from you:
"Please note:
Since only premium subscribers can start new teams, only premium subscribers can be team captains. Please upgrade your membership to a premium subscription by Friday, July 30, 2004. Thank you!
GameKnot.com"
Forcing people to buy a product has been demonstrated to be a big marketing mistake. Also this decision comes without any improvement of the product , or solid explanation why it is required. Although you are entitled to decide whatever you wish, I strongly disagree and reserve the right to give negative publicity to this site if your decision stands.
Thank you!
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schachundmatt
7/19/2004
10:05:04
[ report this post ] | Compromise?
Message:
How about letting teams with premum subscribers sponsor their current team captain, if they wish? The understanding would be no new teams without premium subscribers as captains, but current teams could keep their captains as long as at least one member of the team was a premium subscriber?
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kai_sim
7/19/2004
10:07:35
[ report this post ] | maybe making new enemies, but...
Message:
i totaly agree with mike.
no offense, but the way how i look at it, is that at one point everyone who is team captain now, used to pay for this website at one point. they then became captain or joined the league or any other reason may be possible. that indicates to me that they like/enjoy the service they recieve that started as a free trial for a pay website. here comes the point: when you where willing to join the website, did the free trial, signed up as a member, but then didn't extend, why do you try to obey the rules and leech as a free member when others have to pay for the same service you expecting to get for free?
on top of it you also start to complain (...not about yourself leeching...) and may think of leaving GK, even threaten to leave. i'm not sure where the value of such a person is when not paying for the service in the first place? what money to lose?
i want to go one step further and thank mike for letting the rules slide for such a long time to give others the oportunity to reconsidder if they would like to reniew their membership or not.
best regards
kai
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schachundmatt
7/19/2004
10:15:07
[ report this post ] | Sometimes it is not"leeching"
Message:
As a teacher, it is sometimes hard to afford things. I paid for gameknot as I want to support the site, of course, even though the cash is a lot to me. But some people don't have that kind of money to spend,with families and such...
Don't place me in the "everything should be free on the net" like some category, but I still think we can compromise this one out. It is always better to have some sort of "grandfather clause" in all your rules. I would be willing to sponsor my captain if need be as he is a great captain! Why he won't or can't pay is irrelevant to me... but I do pay, so why can't I stand behind him and say "he should stay captain and I am a premium subscriber"?
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chuckventimiglia
7/19/2004
11:07:29
[ report this post ] | Why don't the premium.....
Message:
subscribers on the teams be the team captain.
I am sure Mike will transfer captainship to
a premium subscriber on the team.
I do not think Mike is running GK as a hobby.
This is a business and like all businesses
it cost money to operate. This is a good chess
site and he has to get compensation for keeping
it going and maybe even making a profit. In
fact, he should be seeking to making a profit
so that his efforts are worthwhile.
Just my opinion but I think the free stuff on this
site does not need to include being a team captain
and yes he is right when he says that it is unfair
to the team captains that are premium subscribers.
If that means that we will have less teams then
so be it. With less teams there will be less cost
for Mike and less demands on the system. Right
now we have over 200 teams. If that is reduced
by 52% that will still leave over 100 teams.
Just my opinion and I have so many enemies now
that a few more will not bother me. :-) Chuck
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vdemian
7/19/2004
11:40:22
[ report this post ] | For Chuck
Message:
Following your logic, why not cancel free play on this site as well? It will also reduce the number of players significantly, ergo the system will run so much better...
When you seek more profit, you improve the product. It is just basic stuff really... There are several other good chess sites, so I am sure competition will keep everyone to decent levels :-)
Eugen
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fliszt
7/19/2004
12:01:59
[ report this post ] | Team Captains . . .
Message:
Team captains should be paying members and they should keep their paying membership status up to date. Being a team captain is both a priviledge and an honor. And there are no other chess sites on the Internet that even hold a candle next to GameKnot as far as the team play concept goes (despite the erratic and nonsensical team Elo ranking system) and we all know that. GameKnot, like Chuck says, is not just a foolish hobby for Mike; it is, and must remain, a business. Mike is entitled to a profit or else there would be no business, there would be no GameKnot. He has to put food on the table too. And we all know that Mike spends countless hours here monitoring the site, making improvements to the site, listening to all the b****ing and complaining (my own included), fixing glitches, answering messages, testing programs, and all the many other tasks that are involved in his job. He must be compensated for his work or else he (and you and I) wouldn't do it. Everyone is entitled to just compensation for their efforts. It is not "profiteering" and it is not "blackmailing." It is wages. And any team captain that is not willing to pay Mike for his services does not deserve to be a team captain.
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omus
7/19/2004
12:17:07
[ report this post ] | let us be realistic
Message:
I would say that the revenue barely covers the overheads of this fine chess site. The amount of time Mike has to spend maintaining and developing the site, I imagine, is totally disproportionate to the revenue.
Perhaps, with all due respect, Mike has been a little undiplomatic but the bottom line must be: an increase in revenue or the site will suffer.
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vdemian
7/19/2004
13:16:03
[ report this post ] | Other chess sites...
Message:
With all due respect "fliszt", there are other sites involving team play that are at least as good as GK is. However one aspect differenciates GK from them: the new rules for team standings applied here. Nobody even dreamed of doing the same; will give you that much (and this is not an endorsment for the system in case it was not obvious what I meant...)
I strongly doubt Mike puts food on the table with GK!
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astinkyfart
7/19/2004
13:28:48
[ report this post ] | vdemian and whoever else.
Message:
if mike cut out free play all together he would have no site at all. i dont think its unfair that paying members get more. people can come here and play for free all they want. i have heard it for years with the forum arguements. this is a chess site and you come here to play chess. all these team captains can still play chess. they can still play with their team. if they want it bad enough they can pay for it. basically its a choice they will have to make. is it worth it to them to pay for it or not. for me it is. i will always find a way to be a paid member due to the fact i really enjoy being the captain of my team. not because of an ego trip its just easier for me than some who dont have as much time. there isnt one thing wrong with what mike is doing. surely we all know we can just always demand, demand , demand and not pay for anything. the LAST thing i want is for gameknot to go under because we couldnt help. i think everyone that is able to pay for this site should pay. for those who truely arent able thats a different story. i know of a site (not a chess site) where everyone went to take part in the forums and keep up on the latest news. the site was ran by volunteers. evetually they informed everyone they could no longer continue with the site because they just didnt have the resources. well all the sites users rallied together and paid for it. now they have what they want but it didnt come free. for all those that want to talk about the gk community not being what it used to be, you have to ask yourself... what are you doing for your gk community? mike lets you play chess for free, your not giving back by merely taking him up on that are you?
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vdemian
7/19/2004
14:04:32
[ report this post ] | Offering play on chess sites...
Message:
... is a competitive business these days. Like it or not, this is the reality!
Honestly I can pay for GK anytime. Why don't I do it? Simply because I do not think it offers enough for the fee required. You guys can disagree as much as you want; the competition out there on the web is real proof for my decision.
Server chess is not such a rarity no more. With more than one offer around, it comes down to quality organizing chesswise. I can do with less internet gadgets, if the first condition is high, but of course this is only me...
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jordian31
7/19/2004
15:04:33
[ report this post ] | ridiculous comment.....
Message:
"Profiteering and blackmailing !!!"
THAT COMMENT IS ABOUT THE MOST ABSURD THING IVE EVER HEARD HERE AT GK!!!!!!!!!!!
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chuckventimiglia
7/19/2004
15:15:17
[ report this post ] | There are sites that offer.....
Message:
a "free" trial membership for a specified time.
Afterwhich they pay or leave. Chuck
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demuziekdoos
7/19/2004
16:46:52
[ report this post ] | my opinion
Message:
Dear chessfriends,
I’m not much of a person to post. This time I had to respond to this thread.
Let’s start by saying that it’s not my intention to offend players (paying or non paying) or the webmaster. I just want to respond to all the things said.
I will start by mentioning another thread: gameknot.com/fmsg/chess5/1708.shtml
In this thread maykx posts the next message from the webmaster:
---
Since only premium subscribers can start new teams, only premium subscribers can be team captains. Please upgrade your membership to a premium subscription by Friday, July 30, 2004. Thank you!
Best regards,
GameKnot.com
---
Since maykx posted this on the 19th of this month he will have 11 days to take action. I also take it that all the other non paying team captains received this message at the same time.
A few things must be said about this:
I agree with the webmaster that a teamcaptain should be a paying member, it’s not fair to become a paying member, start a team and at that time end your payment. To join the league you must be a member as well.
BUT:
- Why are there still non paying league members? (about 3 to 4% of the league players is not paying)
- The fact that only 11 days are given to sort things out is a very short time. Also in this period of vacations I think it’s very bad timing to try to sort this out now.
- What will happen if a non paying team captain is still non paying by the end of this month? Eleminate the team? And if another paying team member will be the new team captain? Is that ok? If it is ….. the site will not gain more money so please Mike, explain your posts about the money you hope to gain.
Solutions?
- Perhaps gameknot_com can give the non paying team captains more time to sort things out with the team. Make it possible to find another (paying) team member who is willing to become captain if the non paying member is not willing to become a paying member.
- Please Mike, clarify what will happen with the team. Your message (the one I mentioned send to all the non paying team captains) is very short, not explaining anything and like omus said undiplomatic.
I now quote gameknot_com
“ Not only that, but teams tend to be very active, with thousands of games played daily. With the advertising rates constantly falling, ads don't provide enough revenue to cover the expenses any more. It's either this, or closing the teams altogether... “
I can understand why thomaswolf is mad/angry/frustrated. First you give him 11 days to sort things out, in your post you also "threaten” to stop the team play at all (please, the word “threaten” sounds perhaps very hard, I don’t intend to mean it that hard). Again. like omus already said: undiplomatic. To thomaswolf I would say: You have some points in your post, I understand you, I really do. But perhaps your words “Profiteering and blackmailing” are undiplomatic as well.
To end this post: Mike (gameknot_com), you’re doing a great thing with this site! I think that you’re doing such a great job that now that is giving you some problems. Let’s face it: did you expect your site to be this big when you started it? Perhaps you could ask some members for advise if you need some! I know that running a site is a big responsibility and sometimes you don’t know what to do. A lot of the players here are very wise persons, I’m sure some of them (a few of them posted here in this thread) are willing to help/advise.
Again, it’s not my intention to offend anyone. If you feel offended by my words I’m sorry.
Paul (demuziekdoos)
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gameknot_com
7/19/2004
17:56:40
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Yes, other team members can sponsor their captain. Anyone can submit a donation using the following page: gameknot.com/donate.pl
and then make sure to send a note using "contact us" link at the bottom of any page with the order number and the user name of the account that should be credited.
And yes, if you absolutely cannot afford a premium membership, you can transfer the captaincy over to someone else on your team who is already a premium subscriber. Just make sure they are willing and that they fully understand what it takes to manage a team.
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baseline
7/19/2004
20:51:06
[ report this post ] | astinkyfart
Message:
well said!
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mrskywalker
7/19/2004
23:11:02
[ report this post ] | oldtimers
Message:
I became a captain long before there were any pay reqirements so no abuse of system was ever involved.
I came over here from another great site itsyourturn.com. a few years ago because of the great players here, the old forums, and the great ratings and profile system.
There have been many interesting people who have come and gone like zylstra, moebile1 and even komei who made the forums interesting. And players liked chessgirl and others who passed away from this planet. Time goes on and what happens, happens. I agree with thomaswolf that it has become more business like. There is a disturbance in the force. I am sure that the amount of team games must have dropped since the new point system came into place. Our team dropped over 100 places in a moment. We are a blue collar team that won many games with low rated players who played hard. So I have stayed a captain out of loyalty to the players not really for fun. The force will always be here long after we are gone.
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jesmago
7/20/2004
00:01:52
[ report this post ] | Injusticia/ Unfairness
Message:
Hola, soy el capitán de "Spanish Wolves"
Creo que es totalmente injusto que se cambien las reglas de juego que se han estado aplicando según intereses propios, y además que estos intereses económicos perjudiquen a tanta gente que viene a jugar y divertirse con el ajedrez.
Con esta nueva norma, muchos equipos van a desaparecer, y mucha gente buscará otros sitios para jugar al ajedrez.
Lo verdaderamente bueno en la vida es gratis.
Salu2
Hello, i'm the captaion of the "Spanish Wolves".
i think is fully unfair that rules could be changed ought to economic interest, beside these interests affect hundred and hundred of people. Most of them come here for playing and enjoy playing chess.
With this new rule, a lot of teams will disappear, and a lot of people will find new sites for playing.
Really good in life is FREE!!!
Best Regards
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diversemanx
7/20/2004
00:50:26
[ report this post ] | I believe the "spirit" or the "intent"...
Message:
...of the rule requested by this site is that a member wishing to start a team would (1) be the captain, and (2) maintain their premium subscription for the duration of their involvement as captain for their team. If I remember correctly, the actual wording of the rule did not specify how long the premium subscription be in effect once the team was up and running. However, I think it is reasonable to surmise that Mike's intent from the beginning was that they maintain the premium subscription. --Rick
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se_santi
7/20/2004
04:58:34
[ report this post ] | It is no fair
Message:
I DO STRONGLY believe that this site is going commercial, and i can possibly agree with that.
But the fact that current team captains who are not paying premiun fee be "removed" from their teams is completely unfair.
If they paid their subscriptions some time ago, and then left paying it, gameknot should have stated THEN that removing them was their policy.
The rules clearly say that no one but those who have paid such fees can start a team. They CLEARLY don't mention what happens when you're captain and then you stop paying your subscription. What's more, the omission of metioning that policy, and the fact that gameknot allowed some captains to continue running their teams, could be seen as an allowance to continue being a captain. Let's face, the rule wasn't there, gameknot allowed for a time, NO ONE can GUESS that the captains were expected to pay.
The mail read:
"Please note:
Since only premium subscribers can start new teams, only premium subscribers can be team captains. Please upgrade your membership to a premium subscription by Friday, July 30, 2004. Thank you!
GameKnot.com"
It is wrong, you can't imply by saying "Since only premium subscribers can start new teams" that then "only premium subscribers can be team captains". One thing does not relate to the other.
I believe since there is some kind of "void" in the rules (they should have CLEARLY stated the fact that those who stop paying must forfeit their positions as captains), that CURRENT team captains who aren't paying right now, are allowed to continue being so for the time being. Of course, no one else could start a team without subscribing, and the rules should clearly from now on state this policy of "removal".
Sebastian
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maykx
7/20/2004
05:20:16
[ report this post ] | se_santi...
Message:
very well said.
I already opened this issue to my teammates and expressed my plan of resigning as a captain of the team. Two of my teammates are premium members. I tell them to handle the job I love doing. But what if they don't want to take the responsibility of being a captain. Will this mean the end of our team?
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gameknot_com
7/20/2004
11:53:58
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Just to put certain things into perspective. Yes, a small website with a couple of hundred of visitors per month can be run as a hobby. Once it grows beyond certain size, it is simply not feasible to continue running it as a hobby, so you either close it for new registrations and turn into a private club, or start running it as a business that involves making sure that the revenue outgrows the expenses (otherwise you'll go bankrupt in a few months).
As a matter of principle, GameKnot will never use premium membership fees to subsidize free accounts, so the only way to make sure that GameKnot can continue to offer free service to everyone is to rely on the advertising revenue. As I already mentioned, the advertising rates have been falling for some time now, and at this rate, the site won't be able to support free accounts in a matter of months. A logical solution would've been to turn GameKnot into a completely paid site, just like many other chess sites did. I.e. you get 1-4 weeks of trial membership after which you either have to pay or leave. Or, you get draconian limitations of only up to N moves per day, no rating for free members, etc. etc. It is quite understandable that not everybody can afford a premium membership, so that's why GameKnot isn't going that route just yet. But it is absolutely necessary right now to "convert" some of the free members to premium subscribers to make sure it doesn't happen. The choice of teams and team captains was only logical -- they tend to be very active, consuming significantly more server resources than an average player, and there was already a rule that only premium subscribers can start new teams. So it was just a matter of enforcing this rule for the existing teams.
Here's a few numbers to help you understand how much it costs to run a large website like GameKnot. One medium-level server costs around $3,000. GameKnot is currently running on 4 such servers. Looking at how things are progressing, it is likely there will be a need for another server by the end of this year. That's $15,000 in upfront expenses. It costs around $100 per month per server to host them. On top of that, the bandwidth bill is around $600 per month and growing each year. So, even before we start factoring in the cost of customer/technical support and development of new features and improvements, we are looking at $1,000 per month in operating expenses already. A good support person costs upward from $15/hour. A good programmer costs upward from $50/hour. So if you add unreasonably low 1 hour of tech support per day and 1 hour of development per day, it ends up being additional $2,000 per month. GameKnot's current net revenue (i.e. excluding taxes) already doesn't cover that. And to have someone do fulltime programming/development work on the site costs in excess of $8,000 per month. (GameKnot's to-do list currently consists of over 300 items, some of which require a couple of months of work). That is simply the reality of the situation. As much we'd like to offer everyone quality service completely for free, it is simply not realistic...
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chuckventimiglia
7/20/2004
12:39:43
[ report this post ] | Mike, you do what you.....
Message:
have to do to keep this site operating. You have
done a really great job on this site. I have visited many
of the other chess sites and a couple of sites that offer
chess plus other games. There is no comparison no
matter what some may say. I, like most, realize
that running anything is not free. Running
a large web site such as GK certainly does cost a
lot of money. It is not FREE!! As a lifetime member
as well as a sponser for a dozen or so other members
I have done so to help keep this site going. I enjoy
GK and want to see it thrive. Please continue improving
the site and keeping it running. It is appreciated by
a great many here who love playing chess. Thanks!!
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remcohappel
7/20/2004
14:37:20
[ report this post ] | What is the problem?
Message:
Hi,
I'm a new gold member since may-2004.
For 2.46$ a month I have already had many and MANY hours of fun.
I'm where happy with the fun for the price paid (really cheep).
No one would like to run a site on which he/she can not afford to pay the bills.
I really don't understand the problems with the team-captain rule.
It ain't that expensive.
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put2geder
7/20/2004
15:22:47
[ report this post ] | Hello, Im a captain,"BLACKMAIL" Im not sure if
Message:
it is "BLACKMAIL" but as se_santi stated it was no were in GK that only premium subscribers can start new teams, only premium subscribers can be team captains. So now this. The real is that I simply cannot aford it cheap as it may be. So please rethink this, some how it does not seem fair to those of us that helped GK be the best or one of the best sites on the web. In a few days It will be 3 years since I joined GK. I hate to leave, by the way any one I need a sponsor or Im history. Pls GK just think it over & put your self in my our shoes. ty.
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chuckventimiglia
7/20/2004
15:48:39
[ report this post ] | Why are you history?
Message:
You can still play here. The question is team captain.
If you choose to leave it will be your choice. Mike
has not said a thing about people being able to play
for free. Chuck
|
jordian31
7/20/2004
18:26:40
[ report this post ] | geeeeeeeez
Message:
i didnt realize the money it takes to run this site. that is trippy. ive never complained about paying for my membership here because i am on this site almost everyday. after reading about the costs, i really appreciate the small annual fee. and i will continue to support gk as long as i play here. this is the only site i play on. i tried a few others before and not to say anything negative about any of them, i just couldnt get into them like i do here. i thank my lucky stars everyday that theres not like some clock thingee on here that tells you the total time each player is on here. i would probably be embarrassed lol.
in my opinion, having to be a paying member to be a team captain is only fair. but thats just my opinion. doesnt mean much im sure but i call it my own just the same. :)
anyways.. gk has spoiled me for any other chess site.
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astinkyfart
7/20/2004
19:31:14
[ report this post ] | there will always be some!!
Message:
do you people want mike to make you happy even if it means the complete death of the site?? please stop thinking of yourself and think of the big picture. if you love this site support it, if you cant afford it fine...keep playing chess FOR FREE!!!! so you cant be captain anymore you will live. i can understand some countries cost of living is high and this might be unaffordable but... i think most gk users can afford a membership. also i want to go out on a limb here. i think those of us that can should sponser someone on our team. it would be a great gift for them and would also support the site we love. i will be honest. if gk goes i will lose my mind! no site compares to this or is even close in my opinion. the thought of loseing this site makes me desperate to keep it!!
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maykx
7/20/2004
19:57:49
[ report this post ] | Unfair it my seems....
Message:
...the captaincy is only for CONTINUOUSLY paying subscriber. I understand that now. I suggest that this be included in the rule of "starting a a team".
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jordian31
7/20/2004
20:18:30
[ report this post ] | astinkyfart....
Message:
explain something to me please.....
how can you lose something you never really had in the first place.... (your mind that is) heh heh heh
JUST PLAYING BEFORE ANYONE JUMPS ON ME ABOUT THAT COMMENT
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muzza
7/20/2004
21:31:27
[ report this post ] | Black or White?
Message:
Mike's post about the costs is instructional.
Open Source the Site
If Mike wishes to employ a team of programmer/developers, well then here we are! Let the community do it! What entrepreneur would miss the chance of free outsourcing... by making the development of the functionality of this site Open Source, he can furthur knit the community knot, while rapidly accelerating feature development/innovation, and, crucially, still maintaining control of the Gameknot domain/brand etc, making final decisions, and collecting subscription fees to fund operational costs.
The Darke Side
But, I suspect, surrendering position as sole arbitrar and decision maker of Gameknot is not in the business plan. What is it they say about power?.. Only Mike knows the exact operational costs, and also, the member and advertising revenue. We do not know this information as it might deter us from joining if the site is profitable. Conversely, as seemingly costs now outstrip income, new charges are needed. It really is just business.
A gathering of like minded people over the ethereal medium of the internet is amazing for those involved. Over the last few years (what with the closing of the forums, original introduction of subscription etc.) this community is discovering that it is not involved in the control of its own destiny. For a look at the possibilities of internet collaboration see (www.wikipedia.org). Could gameknot go this direction??
I for one, though not a member, would be willing to give a once off donation for a new server to support my chess site, but I would like to be aware of where my money is going.
On Cost
If you think US$2.46 a month is not much, then reflect that a pay per play site at this cost would not afford you the opportunity to play against potentially excellent players in up and coming internet nations (news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3871529.stm). This site is still the place to exercise the wonderful game of chess if you are on the breadline and working in the service industry as, say, a waiter. Believe it or not, a lot of waiters are good chess players!
(I've been a member for quite some time, and a captain too. Unfortunately my team is organised around my university, so it is improbable that any of the members could justify the subscription fee, so goodbye team NUIG. I myself pay 5 euro a month to Amnesty International, but won't be able to justify paying a subscription to a recreational chess site until I start a career. I'm sure there are lots of people in a similar boat.)
So, GameKnot, Are you playing as white or as black?
Muzza
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chuckventimiglia
7/21/2004
05:35:40
[ report this post ] | I am sure there are people....
Message:
on this site that honestly cannot afford the
premium subscription. The talk above in no way
says the "free" status must end. It is only the
team captaincy that is in question. I am
sure there are many people on this site that can afford
a premium membership but choose not to pay. That
again is their right and they can still play for "free".
They just can no longer be team captains. I urge those
people that can pay for a subscription to do so. By
more people paying subscriptions the future of the
"Free status" of this site will be protected. Also,
if you enjoy team play and want to captain a team
then you should/will have to buy a subscription.
If you cannot afford one then do not expect to
play here for "free" and captain a team as well.
We have to be fair to Mike. When he says everything costs
money he is correct. Just feel lucky that he is still
offering playing for "free". There are very few sites
that still offer this and those sites are becoming harder
and harder to find. They can not compare in any
way with GK.
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hdhyatt
7/21/2004
09:03:14
[ report this post ] |
Message:
"if you enjoy team play and want to captain a team
then you should/will have to buy a subscription.
If you cannot afford one then do not expect to
play here for "free" and captain a team as well. "
If GK would have been up front with that, I wouldn't have any problem. I took a team because I met the 50 game completed eligibility requirement. Now I'm being blackmailed into a subscription. Yes, blackmailed! I NOW have a problem giving them money.
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jordian31
7/21/2004
09:09:49
[ report this post ] |
Message:
I CAN DO NOTHING BUT LAUGH AT HOW YOU PEOPLE THROW AROUND THE WORD BLACKMAIL. THIS IS A CHESS SITE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
.......... STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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hdhyatt
7/21/2004
09:20:14
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Insanity? You're the one who can't carry on a conversation without shouting and using the mulitible exclamation points. How about leaning the basics in internet etticate.
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jordian31
7/21/2004
09:26:29
[ report this post ] | .......
Message:
if you mean ETIQUETTE THEN OK HDYDATT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(and i wasnt shouting or evening making a peep as i TYPED that.. wow!)
please let me clarify something...
my last post was purely MY opinion. and at this point i am really wishing I COULD TAKE IT BACK! the personal attacks in private just werent worth it. its funny how some people are allowed to give their opinion but god forbid if you disagree with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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hdhyatt
7/21/2004
09:28:00
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Pardon my spelling, but I do know how to spell blackmail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jordian31
7/21/2004
09:31:05
[ report this post ] |
Message:
whatever
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pandemona
7/21/2004
09:35:02
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Please hdhyatt remember Freedom of Speech!! You are trampling on jordian31 's right to express herself! This is CENSORSHIP and by allowing it you are letting the terrorists win.
*rolls eyes*
On seconds thoughts, please, already let's stop with the emotive term-dropping. ;) "Blackmail" included, I think it sounds just as silly...
~ Stephen / pandemona
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se_santi
7/21/2004
09:39:18
[ report this post ] | Anyway
Message:
I said before i agree with gameknot turning more commercial to pay its bills. As hard as it may be the economic situation of gameknot (and i really don't want it to disappear), i believe it's unfair now to change the rules, especially to state and enforce a rule that WASN'T THERE in the first place.
At least, team captains who paid before and are no longer doing it, should be allowed to stay as captains. What happens from now on?, well, of course, all captains should be paying customers and be told of this restriction.
Another choice is what muzza proposed a few posts earlier, but i haven't heard of mike making any comment about it yet.
Sebastian
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jordian31
7/21/2004
09:41:53
[ report this post ] |
Message:
AND THEN GOD SAID.. .
LET THERE BE LIGHT!!!!!!!!
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