| From | Message |
yanm
12/13/2006
11:58:30
[ report this post ] |
 Subject: les cavaliers fous, forum III
Message:
Since the last forum was discontinued, let us start our third discussion forum....
Allez les fous!
Link to the previous forums
-------------------------
Forum I : -> gameknot.com
Forum II: -> gameknot.com
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beholder28
12/13/2006
14:33:17
[ report this post ] | third ladder
Message:
Hey guys!
Thanks yanm for starting this forum. As the end of the ongoing final game is approaching, I was wondering if no-one was interested in a new ladder, as we've had several newcomers since the second one started.
I also wanted to congratulate with all the team members who've been improving their score recently. Keep it going guys, we could and should be much higher in the table.
Allez les fous!!
beholder 28
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yanm
12/14/2006
03:02:44
[ report this post ] | third ladder (rules)
Message:
For a refresh, the rules are as follows. First, the lowest rated player challenges the player just above them in the rating list. Then, the winner of this game challenges the next one in the list, and so on... Finally, the winner of the last match is also the winner of the ladder! Note that the lowest rated player always plays with the colour of their choice.
Allez les fous,
yanm
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yanm
12/20/2006
09:36:43
[ report this post ] | third ladder
Message:
Here is the (ordered) list of the players for the third ladder:
1361 parodin
1440 venpil
1478 micsteel2005
1490 yanm
1657 claudianl
1552 schaakhamster
1574 jongraft
1576 goach44
1643 raivax
1669 butnerman
1793 blatman
1930 beholder28
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yanm
1/14/2007
00:20:19
[ report this post ] | third ladder update
Message:
Third ladder, game #1, just started...
1361 parodin -- current King
1440 venpil -- challenger (board #6567860)
1478 micsteel2005
1490 yanm
1657 claudianl
1552 schaakhamster
1574 jongraft
1576 goach44
1643 raivax
1669 butnerman
1793 blatman
1930 beholder28
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yanm
1/21/2007
23:22:44
[ report this post ] | Pressure/insult at GK
Message:
Hello, team!
I would like to inform you about an incident that recently happened in one of our team match. We had the chance to initiate a match between "les cavaliers fous" and "some other team", featuring X versus Y and A versus B.
In a game between X and Y, X (playing white) is pressing our teammate to move with this comment:
**Comment: (rookeekj) make your move or cancel the game nimrod**
Note that the game was decided with a time control of 5 days per move. Consequently, Y is free to use his days as he sees fit, and so without being harassed by such comments. I hope you will all agree on that? Additionally, one of the definition of nimrod (from Wikipedia) is as follows: "Nimrod (slang), a silly or foolish person." So, the comment is probably meant as an insult. Even if it is just a slight insult, we decided to report this to X's captain because X's bad behaviour might also reflect negatively on their team.
We didn't get any follow-up from X's captain. However, it seems that the message was heard. And the response is harder than we thought: X has been kicked out of his team, and he has either lost his account on GK or been deprived of his ability to communicate with other players (see his empty/blank profile).
We can surmise that his team captain directly contacted the webmaster... Scary, isn't it?
In conclusion, if you ever find yourself in a similar situation during a team game, the best course is to inform me and I will, in turn, contact the other captain. Additionally, I fervently hope that none of us will find themselves on the wrong side of the line! Insulting/pressing an opponent, IMHO, quite bad style...
Anyway, I'm pasting this message in the team forum, so we can discuss it more thoroughly!
Allez les fous, and crush them!
--Yannick
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yanm
1/21/2007
23:24:19
[ report this post ] | IMPORTANT
Message:
Note that I removed the protagonists' names since it's considered bad style to name people on GK forums... So, if you have any comments please leave out specific names!
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yanm
1/21/2007
23:26:43
[ report this post ] | General remark on insult
Message:
I personally think that the anonymity of the Web sometime pushes people at saying/doing things that they would never do in the real life. In some way, I consider that it might reveal the true nature of people... What do you think?
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yanm
1/30/2007
07:01:11
[ report this post ] | 2nd ladder - finished
Message:
1245 seekez -- defeated (board #4345228)
1244 pdcb -- defeated (board #4267826)
1411 muktadir -- defeated (board #4582021)
1462 yanm -- current King (board #5132999)
1655 blatman -- current King
1679 butnerman -- defeated (board #5205567)
1766 beholder28 -- defeated (board #5392351)
>>>>>> Ritchie (blatman) is the King of the mountain. Hail to the king!
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beholder28
1/30/2007
17:46:18
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Hail!
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yanm
2/20/2007
02:59:46
[ report this post ] | Match victory
Message:
I would like to notify you that our team won its match against the `Footy-Fans´. More information can be found there: -> gameknot.com . As you can see we moved up the team ladder (we are now at position 111).
Congratulations to seekez and jongraft !
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yanm
3/24/2007
12:48:28
[ report this post ] | Third ladder
Message:
Third ladder, game #1, just started...
1361 parodin -- current King
1440 venpil -- defeated (board #6567860)
1478 micsteel2005 -- challenger(board #7041393)
1490 yanm
1657 claudianl
1552 schaakhamster
1574 jongraft
1576 goach44
1793 blatman
1930 beholder28
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yanm
3/28/2007
01:27:39
[ report this post ] | Recent completed team matches
Message:
We recently completed two team matches:
VS The Sneaky Knight Connection, draw: -> gameknot.com;
VS $MAMBA$, won: -> gameknot.com.
Both matches were played by jongraft and claudianl. I would like to congratulate both of them for the draw and the victory since, thanks to these results, we are now ranked 115 in the new team ladder system:
* ranking --- -> gameknot.com;
* our results so far --- -> gameknot.com.
I would like to specially thanks claudianl for the hard fought half point she was able to gain against chesstico. It was the last game in the match, we were leading 2 against 1 but we needed a draw to win. She was down a knight but nonetheless I asked her to do her best to draw the game and she did it.
In the future I might contact one of you about a specific key game and ask you to fought until the end so as to draw it!
On a side note, I prefer the new ladder system to the older ELO system. The reason is that the ELO ranking for a team is computed on individual games whereas the new ladder system is based on matches results. This give a better sense of cohesion within the team since lost games can be balanced by won games within the same match. Still, a better system would be an ELO rank computed on matches' results.
Anyway, I urge every team member to follow the matches' results in which they are playing and tune the effort spent on each game accordingly. From a team game board, you can quickly access to the corresponding match by clicking on the '»all' orange link the the top of the window.
Allez les fous,
--Yannick
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beholder28
3/28/2007
16:26:12
[ report this post ] | team matches
Message:
Hey there!
Congrats to our successful teammates and especially to claudianl for her crucial draw. I am, so to speak, "fully back in business" just since a week or so, and could not follow the games before then, so I joined when she was just one pawn down but in a drawn position.
As for the new system for team matches, I am completely in favour of it and had been secretly hoping for something of this sort to get started, as in my opinion it's only thanks to this that team matches here on GK have become truly a team contest, for the same reasons explained by Yannick.
However, this raises the issue of what exactly team captains are allowed to do to direct the players during a match. I didn't see anything on this matter in the ladder rules, so I'm asking it now:
1) is a captain allowed to tell players to play for a draw or for a win?
This does not only mean "to ask players to fight until the end so as to draw", which would be nothing more than encouragement, but also to actually ask a player to stop trying to win and to settle for half a point, for example, if the captain thinks that it's important for the overall match result.
2) are players expected to consult with their captain before offering or accepting a draw, like in "ordinary" over the board team competitions?
(There might be something else I'm forgetting right now. If anybody has more doubts, feel free to add to what I'm writing here and/or to correct me if I'm mistaken on this).
Of course these questions have two sides, that is, the rules themselves (that should be the same for all teams) AND each team's internal policy on the matter, which I guess should be decided by the captain.
I'm waiting to read your opinions (the teammates' and the captain's) on all this.
For now, good luck to all of you!
Allez les fous!!
beholder28
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yanm
4/01/2007
01:13:44
[ report this post ] | Good post beholder28
Message:
I'm must say that I'm a little surprised that only beholder28 and blatman reacted on the new team ladder. That's something that concerns the whole team all after all...
To answer to beholder28 questions:
1) Well, this is an interesting point I didn't thought about. I guess that I cannot ask a player to stop trying to win in a game since it would fall into this "4. You may not artificially manipulate your rating. It includes, but not limited to, resigning multiple games with equal or winning positions, letting multiple games time out while still visiting GameKnot, intentionally losing games to lower your rating in general." from the rules listed in -> gameknot.com. And then maybe not, it's not clear because I would never ask a team mate to resign a won game nor stop trying to win a game. What I meant in my previous post is the following. For example, a team mate is participating to two matches, say called one and two, and in match one the outcome of the player's remaining games wouldn't influence the result of match one while in match two the outcome of the player's remaining games would influence the result of match two. In this case, this player should maybe concentrate their effort on match two. HOWEVER, this doesn't mean stop trying to win games in match one but rather to spend more time on match two than on match one...
2) This would be welcome, as well as consulting the team before resigning. However, I fear that it falls under "3. You may not use chess engines, chess programs, chess computers to help you decide your next move. You may not consult with anyone nor ask advice about any games in progress. You may analyze games with chess engines after they are finished. You may consult chess books or game/move databases at any time." and is, consequently, illegal...
Any other thoughts are welcome...
Allez les fous,
--Yannick
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yanm
4/02/2007
04:39:47
[ report this post ] | On behalf of blatman
Message:
Hello Yannick
I'd be obliged if you could post this on our page for me.
I see no problem with beholder's points 1 and 2. It should simply be treated as an ordinary OTB match. Why not?
Regarding your points "Y" relating to the gameknot rules, I think your wrong. A captain within these rules can still advise whether to play for a win or draw(I wish I could have that much control over the result!).
The rules refer to advice about "your next move" and go on to say "nor ask advice about any games in grogress". I would take that clearly to mean taking advice on moves etc, not whether you should play safe for a draw. The rules refer to the GAMES, not to match situations which are rightly the business of any team captain.
I hope that's useful
Regards
B
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schaakhamster
4/02/2007
12:23:29
[ report this post ] | I personally
Message:
won't think twice about drawing a game if it means the team wins the game!
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yanm
4/02/2007
23:21:14
[ report this post ] | Team match won
Message:
Hello, team!
Just to inform you that we won our match against "Hungarian wanderers" and climbed the team ladder up to position 79! Congratulations to micsteel2005 and jongraft!
Keep doing well, we are nearing the top :D
Allez les fous,
--Yannnick
PS1 for those of you that didn't yet comment on the ladder system, please do so on the team message board (accessible from the team page through 'homepage').
PS2 Additionally, please comment on the possibility that our team uses a system where a player has to ask the Captain or a co-captain (to be elected) in order to resign or draw team games.
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venpil
4/03/2007
02:13:27
[ report this post ] | New ladder
Message:
No special comment to make for the new ladder system.
The fact is that I can't be engaged is a game for the moment.
But be sure that I will finish my current game until the total end!
Allez les fous
Xavier
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yanm
4/03/2007
02:24:02
[ report this post ] | On blatman's behalf
Message:
Hello Yannick
Could you do the honours again for me?
Regarding asking the Captain or Co-captain:
I think players should perhaps seek guidance from the skipper when offering or accepting draws or resigning; I'll certainly do that before I resign my two games... ONLY KIDDING YANNICK.
Regards
A Fellow Woodpusher.
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jongraft
4/03/2007
05:49:36
[ report this post ] | Team Ladder
Message:
I don't know what to say about the team ladder except that I like that there is something to make on focus on team results. So, that's a good thing. I can't say I like the idea of having to get permission from somebody before resigning or drawing. I want to have control of my games.
Perhaps as a first step, the Captain or other team members could review resigned or drawn games and see if we are settling for poorer results than we should be getting. We could pick 1 or more to discuss as a team, as a learning tool. Just a thought.
jon
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beholder28
4/03/2007
07:17:38
[ report this post ] | team matches policy
Message:
Hello, everybody!
Congratulations to the teammates who just won a team match against one of the top-15 teams!!
As regards...
PS2 Additionally, please comment on the possibility that our team uses a system where a player has to ask the Captain or a co-captain (to be elected) in order to resign or draw team games.
...in Yannick's last message, I am in favour. Also, obviously, I hope that it will be made quite clear that such consultation is NOT against the rules.
Yannick, do you know if this issue is being discussed by the GK staff also?
Please note that this does NOT mean to give advice to a player about strategy or ideas featured in his position. It would mean to say ONLY that a draw is or isn't useful to the team as a whole.
To give you a clear example (this really happened to me in an OTB team match), it was a 4-game match, the score was 1-1 with 2 games completed, and the other team had a big advantage on one of the two remaining boards. In the fourth, our opponent (player) offered a draw. My teammate immediately refused (without even asking to our captain) because it was clear that we would lose
1,5-2,5 if he had accepted.
So far so good, but then the captain of the opponents, who was standing behind his player, said "well, but there's a perpetual check anyway...". Now, this was a huge violation of the rules, because EVEN IN TEAM MATCHES a player can't get help from anyone, so he'd have to notice by himself that he had a forced draw. The only sort of advice a captain is allowed to give is about how useful (or useless) a draw would be for the team.
After that, it's up to the player to follow the advice or not.
That's why I stressed the importance of setting a policy within our team, because otherwise this could give rise to quarrels among teammates.
My personal view (considering also that the competitive issue shouldn't be the only important thing here on GK... - otherwise we'd be playing chess in the ICCF) is that if for some reason a team member doesn't like the idea of being told by the captain whether or not to draw one of his games for the team's benefit, that shouldn't be too much of a problem and it should be possible to handle that situation, provided that the captain and the other players involved know it in advance.
I don't really see why one should not go for what's best for the team (by the captain's judgement), but for me it's ok if someone else has a different opinion.
Sorry for the long post.
Allez les fous!!
beholder28
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schaakhamster
4/03/2007
22:30:40
[ report this post ] | I'm with
Message:
jongraft about the in game instructions. But as I said before: I will always check the matchscore when making important decisions about a game.
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yanm
4/05/2007
02:15:12
[ report this post ] | Easter blabla
Message:
Hello, team!
I'm away until next week... So see you then. In the meantime please welcome our new teammate: chia111. I'm sure he will present himself on the team message board and also voice his opinion on the current debate :D
BTW, I'm really in favour of the principle that teammates should ask before resigning or accepting/proposing a draw. Not because it gives me more control on team match -- we are playing for fun after all -- but because I feel this is a way to build a team spirit (by communicating more often than we did until now). In the same line of thought, I would also like to have one or two co-captains that will serve to this purpose and certainly to many other things. Some volunteers out there?
Finally, I also propose to bring more members to the team. I think that twenty teammates (in all) sounds well to my hear. If you know some nice players out there, don't hesitate to ask them...
Of course, you're all welcome to voice opinions, propose other options or complain about dictatorship's abuse on our team message board.
Have a nice Easter,
--Yannick
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yanm
4/05/2007
02:22:27
[ report this post ] | jongraft, schaakhamster
Message:
I did a quick review of past team games. In most cases, true enough, I've no complain at all. However, in a few instances (concerning players that left the team) there were some games that could have been ended differently if our players had played on.
As I said in my previous post, I don't propose this to control more tightly the team but rather to build up team spirit! After all, to be part of a team is not only to be assigned to challenging games now and then, but also to share a common goal and, for those who want, friendship. This is just my two cents of ranting...
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yanm
4/05/2007
02:24:47
[ report this post ] | beholder28
Message:
I'm not aware that this issue has been discussed by the GK staff. I will ask them through 'contact us' option though.
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claudianl
4/07/2007
01:07:45
[ report this post ] | asking the captain
Message:
i finally found this message board *oops* not really blatantly obvious where it is on the gameknot website.
regarding the ask-the-captain "rule": i am also in favour, that is how i know it from real life teams, why should it be any different in virtual teams? although if lots of games are on, that could mean quite some work for the captain (or co-captains) especially when there are lots of 2-days-per-move games on.
Happy Easter Holidays to everyone!!!!
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yanm
4/10/2007
04:40:09
[ report this post ] | Here is teh answer from GK staff
Message:
Hello, yanm,
It is against GameKnot rules to give _any_ advice about any of
the games in progress, even if it is a simple "you have no chance
of winning this game, so you can resign" or "keep fighting, it is
still possible to win". All decisions about a game they are
playing have to be made by the player alone. You can provide
general guidelines for your teammates, but they cannot refer to
any specific game that is still in progress.
[...]
Best regards,
GameKnot.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In response to your inquiry submitted on 05-Apr-07, 02:40
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear GameKnot staff,
I've a question about the new team ladder system and its implications. Since the result of match depends on every games played in this match, we (my team and I) wondered whether it would be legal for me to require of my teammates that they ask me before drawing or resigning. Mark me, I'm not referring to counsel about actual moves or about who is better or worse in a particular game. I'm rather referring to something like "please continue on, we need you to win/draw this game" or "you can resign/draw this game without looking back since it won't change the match's result." Of course, I will never ask one of my player to draw a won game or resign a drawish game. For more information, please refer to -> gameknot.com.
[...]
I would like to thanks you in advance for considering the above issues and answering me!
Best regards and have a nice Easter,
--Yannick Maret
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yanm
4/10/2007
04:42:12
[ report this post ] | Well, the choice is easy
Message:
Just follow the results with the matches you're playing in and distribute the game load accordingly...
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yanm
4/10/2007
05:43:20
[ report this post ] | Team match won
Message:
We won our match against G.K.K ~GameKnot Kings~ (-> gameknot.com ) and we climbed up to position 92 in the team ladder: -> gameknot.com.
Congratulation to jongraft and schaakhamster. Both managed to win every game!
We are doing well, keep going! Allez les fous!
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beholder28
4/10/2007
07:16:27
[ report this post ] | team match rule
Message:
Roger!
Allez les fous!!
beholder28
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yanm
4/11/2007
05:13:26
[ report this post ] | On behalf of blatman
Message:
Hello Yannick (Pop this on the forum if you wish and have the time).
Just read the forum. The response sounds like that of a web enthusiast as opposed to a chess enthusiast. However, onwards and upwards.
I will look at my matches in future; I have now worked out how to do this. Accordingly, I would like to extend my congratulations to our team mate, Claudianl for winning both his games against "The Sneaky Knight Connection". This means we cannot lose. All I need do is draw one game. Fear not, you have placed the match in a safe pair of han...(SMASH!!).
As White I have an obvious advantage (no comments in case we're being watched!) and as Black my position is OK-ish if a little awkward. At the risk of giving too much away about my subtle strategic grasp, I intend to advance carrying all before me.
ALLEZ LES FOUS!!
Richie aka blatman
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yanm
4/15/2007
13:23:55
[ report this post ] | Team match won
Message:
We won our match against "CROATIA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE TEAM": -> gameknot.com
match.pl?id=19393, we are now ranked 120 in the team ladder! Congratulations to seekez
and myself :D
We are doing well, keep going! Allez les fous!
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yanm
4/19/2007
02:39:31
[ report this post ] | Team match won
Message:
We won our match against "The Sneaky Knight Connection": -> gameknot.com,
we are now ranked #74 in the team ladder! Congratulation to jongraft, chia111, and seekez.
We are doing very well! Keep going like that!
Allez les fous,
--Yannick
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yanm
4/30/2007
22:38:15
[ report this post ] | Team match won
Message:
We won our match against "*THE BLACK STALLION INTERNATIONAL CHESS TEAM™*": -> gameknot.com,
we are now ranked #66 in the team ladder! Congratulation to seekez, and yanm!
We are doing very well! Keep going like that!
Allez les fous,
--Yannick
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yanm
5/12/2007
23:12:35
[ report this post ] |
Message:
We won our match against "-----}-- Nate's Knights --{-----": -> gameknot.com,
we are now ranked #78 in the team ladder! Congratulation to seekez, and schaakhamster!
We are doing very well! Keep going like that!
Allez les fous,
--Yannick
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yanm
6/09/2007
00:33:15
[ report abuse ] | Fourth ladder --- kick off
Message:
Since the third ladder is well under way, lets start the fourth ladder. Thereafter is the order of play (based on players' ELO of the 2007.06.09):
1316 parodin
1388 seekez
1431 venpil
1475 micsteel2005
1491 jongraft
1509 ludo21
1574 goach44
1589 yanm
1656 schaakhamster
1694 claudianl
1845 blatman
1955 beholder28
For a refresh, the rules are as follows. The lowest rated player first challenges the player just above them in the rating list. Then, the winner of this game challenges the next one in the list, and so on... The winner of the last match is also the winner of the ladder! Note that the lowest rated player (as of the kick off list) always plays with the colour of their choice.
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yanm
6/10/2007
09:12:27
[ report abuse ] | Third ladder --- update #3
Message:
Game #4 is under way micsteel2005 vs yanm at board #7552977
1361 parodin -- defeated (board #7041393)
1440 venpil -- defeated (board #6567860)
1478 micsteel2005 -- current King
1490 yanm -- challenger (board #7552977)
1657 claudianl
1552 schaakhamster
1574 jongraft
1576 goach44
1793 blatman
1930 beholder28
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yanm
6/12/2007
22:43:15
[ report abuse ] | Fourth ladder --- update #1
Message:
Game #1 is underway: parodin VS seekez at board #7556889
1316 parodin -- current king
1388 seekez -- challenger (board #7556889)
1431 venpil
1475 micsteel2005
1491 jongraft
1509 ludo21
1574 goach44
1589 yanm
1656 schaakhamster
1694 claudianl
1845 blatman
1955 beholder28
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beholder28
6/22/2007
01:05:59
[ report abuse ] | welcome
Message:
Welcome on board, yannovitch38 !!
allez les fous!
beholder28
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parodin
7/06/2007
07:35:39
[ report abuse ] | :-)
Message:
For the first time on GK, I've more winned games than loosed... I hope it will continue.... and to have a positive score in team too ;-)
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yanm
7/09/2007
23:14:33
[ report abuse ] | Fourth ladder --- update #2
Message:
Game #2 is underway: parodin VS venpil at board #7726911
1316 parodin -- current king
1388 seekez -- defeated (board #7556889)
1431 venpil -- challenger (board #7726911)
1475 micsteel2005
1491 jongraft
1509 ludo21
1574 goach44
1589 yanm
1656 schaakhamster
1694 claudianl
1845 blatman
1955 beholder28
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