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far1ey

4/07/2007
01:10:44

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Subject: Consutation Team:Far1ey & ccmcacollister #3

Message:
I think that Qa5 can be played at anytime, so perhaps it is best to wait? Then again the b pawn is hanging so counter attacking could be worth it.

The main question I think is if we are to play Nc4 what do we do after Qd3? If we move the knight back then the Nc4 maneuvre probably isnt worth the bother. If we protect with d5 we get to uneasy positions after
Nc4
Qd3 d5
exd5 exd5
as shown in my previous post.

I think that Qa5 Kb1 with a queenside attack to follow is good for black. We may be a bit behind but with the knight - queen and b pawn all in the attack with the rook to come I think we can put sufficient pressure on the white king at the present time. Agree? Disagree?
We have a nice 5 days to move so there is no real time pressure at the moment.

Far1ey


ccmcacollister

4/09/2007
00:00:56

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sure ...

Message:
It would be great to generate a Q side attack. i just dont see a real one at the moment. I wa thinkning more along lines of my Ibsen game where we attampt to pin defenders to wt Q-side. Sorry Ive been so out of it lately. My regular games ahve been suffereing for it as well. Just not as much maybe :) We really should a developed I guess./My fault. I am always over confident :(


far1ey

4/11/2007
00:53:45

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Message:
Im not sure I understand is this the Ibsen game you were refering to?
Nc-e2 Nc4
13. Qd3 Qc7
14. Ng3 Nxe3
15. Qxe3 Bb7
16. Bd3 Be7
17. g5 hxg5
18. hxg5 Rxh1
19. Rxh1 Ng8
20. g6 Nh6
21. gxf7+ Kxf7
22. Rxh6 gxh6
23. Qxh6 Rg8

I think I must have over looked this post, because the postion seems different after Qc7! Instead of the somewhat dubious d5?! Indeed the postition looks better... I am torn between Qa5 and Nc4 now but if Nc4 is really a position which is for the better I think we can play it.. Its just a game.

So Nc4...


far1ey

4/13/2007
23:24:40

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Message:
Ok Qd3...



far1ey

4/13/2007
23:29:33

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Message:
Ok now that we have commited ourselves to Nc4 we have three choices:

d5 - which we have agreed upon as being rather dubious.
Qc7 - following the game.
Ne5 - Which after Qd2 'offers' a draw or after Qb3 isolates the queen a bit although it provides alot of protection for the king. Perhaps even Qb3 a5! with a4 to soon follow to trap the queen.



far1ey

4/13/2007
23:36:53

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Message:
Opps and of course Nxe3 winning the bishop pair!

far1ey

4/16/2007
18:39:58

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Message:
Low on time now, I think to make the Qc7 move would be best - following the game.

ccmcacollister

4/17/2007
15:32:37

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Starting to like our position better

Message:
I think you were right to leave the B on for now. Can always take it late unless they expend a tempo. Wonder if Be7 and Nd7 should be played or just keep on with the Q-sdie. what you think?
Seems if it is safe to do so, then a5 and Ba6 may make them continue to jumble up their pieces ... a good thing~! Otherwise I dont see anything wrong with Bb7 now either since
we dont need Bd7 to chase a knight ... True it blocks our b file awhile tho. So perhsonallyl I really do favor trying for Ba6 if havent overlooked some shocking reply by them. Maybe a4 plays before Ba6 even, in that line?
Ive been missing alot lately in my own games. So considering all my ideas suspect at this itime. :(
A lot going on. Regards


far1ey

4/18/2007
22:26:48

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Message:
Sorry about the suddeness of this, but I will be away from tomorrow for a week and will postpone. I'll postpone for a few days over so we will have more time to discuss moves. Sorry for the lateness of this.

Ps: the bishop would indeed be nice on a6 - your ideas are just as suspect as mine ;)


far1ey

4/25/2007
23:55:58

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Message:
Busy and will post more later but we are now faced with Bh3!! Here comes the battle!



far1ey

4/27/2007
05:37:29

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Message:
Okays back:

Thanks for the space, I've sent you a challenge but I wonder if its the best way to communicate? I prefer the forum because we then have a record of past conversations. With adding comments (I assume thats what you mean) we have no record of past conversation. However, if you want it would be an easier way to commicate.

Back to the game:
This looks at first really really dubious in my opinion. The bishop is in the completely the wrong spot. with our recent b4 move it gave the bishop a nice diagonal (the c4 square too) but now Bh3 deprives white of that nice diagonal. Honestly I dont actually see any positive things about this move. White is deprived of the h file too! Perhaps hoping for a future f5? but I dont see how white gets that in. but that just leaves the e pawn a-hangin.

I think that we have two good moves:
d5!! looks good here. I know we agreed that the opening of the centre is bad but if exd5 Nxd5! and we are threatening the Be3 so white plays Bf2. We actually have some queen trapping threats here! My original thought was to play after Bf2 b3 axb3 Nb4!! which would trap the queen save for Qxc4 (if Qd5 then Bb7!)

As you said in your previous post a5 followed by Ba6 is also very good. Exploiting the bad position of the white queen and bringing the bishop to an active spot (a rarity in the Najdorf). However, what will happen after Nb5!? Qc6 Nxd6!? Bxd6 Nd4! Qc7 Nb5 is good for white. however instead of Qc7 black could try Qa4! which is -+ So if Nb5?! is bad for white, then this move could well be justified as the b5 square will be covered next move by Ba6 and perhaps Rb8!?

I definately think that a5 is 'the move' in this situation.

All the best,
Far1ey

btw excellent observation, I woulda missed the a5 move :D


far1ey

4/27/2007
22:56:56

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Message:
Sudden thought - How about Bd7!? Followed by Bb5! when Nxb5 axb5 gives us the a file and we still have possible discoveries!?

Up to you craig, d5, a5, Bd7!? I don't mind :D


ccmcacollister

4/28/2007
17:54:03

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HI !

Message:
I hope we got a day or two now? I agree that Ba3 does not seem best, and had thought Ng3 more likely so as them unveiling a threat to our Nc4. But Bh3 DOES DO one thing for them too advance their plans. or two. Note that now (like if NG3) they CAN make their g5 push, and even recapture with hxg5 now since their Rh1 is now shielded and not hanging anymore to hxg RxRh1. Being able now to push, I think they may very well do it at the first chance. And we need to consider it carefully. There would be the idea of Ng8?! instead of hxg5 but the Ng8 could be left there a Long time, and trap our Rh8. Also letting a g6 push be possible.
Also Ba3 lines up vs e6 for possible sac's to watch for since their Nd4 already hits upon e6. For that reason ... the Bd7 you mentioned IS one of my Candidate moves. But I'd not considered the Offensive punch it might make from there at the same time! Good point, and I need to look at that plus all the other ideas you presented.
***
Without seeing it in particular or analyzing, my first impulse to still dislike ...d5, a center opening move ...where our King must live... and we would need constant watch against very long term ideas of penalizing that fact; such as "rebound" attacks where maybe we had our way for awhile or get material but dogged buildup vs our central K kills us in the end. And just he fact that opening the center while not o-o/-0 is frowned upon, against principles. But will take a looks. Exceptions win games and make masters :)
***
My other candidates for the moment were to be:
Bd7, Be7, Nd7(removing the Target...that is needed for them to make a forcible line opening, and might even promote your prior ...h5 push past idea. BTW I did see it done in a GM game on d-base. My only problem witht he concept is that it can be another that comes to haunt later ... becoming an immobile target there (thus making
an "only matter of time" situation on the K-side. ...before they could get to us. Thus I only make such moves myself if they are a delay tactic vs their plans, to give just enough Time to complete some aggression of my own elsewhere, FIRST :) We cannot afford to forget that it May come to where it could be worth a piece sac to them to open things up over there or sac on h5 even. Since we do not have a specific winning & forced plan of action to capitalize unequivically upon their K position, I'd prefer not having to do ...h5 unless it can be shown undamaging if it falls, or to not fall for a long long time. :)
****
Back to candidates.
Bd7/ Be7/ Nd7/ a5
Those were mine prior to your note. Now I would add, looking at your ...d5. Also, let
us not forget a possible, timely ...e5 push. For eg perhaps after a Bd7 move, then
a ...e5, Nf5 Bb5 type manuever. Glad you brought up that B-lift idea.
ALSO I too wondered about Nb5 in reply to an a5 move, which is why I said 'if I didnt miss something terrible' in my prior notes re the Ba6 idea. I still need to look at your thoughts on that too, just mentioned. HERE is something important I feel ...
***********
COMBINATIVE POSSIBILTY may arise due to the fact of a Nxe3 move putting their Q & King diagonally inline. Something on the order of:
1.g5 Nd7 2.gxh6 Nxe3 3.Qxe3 and like now if we have played Be7 then something like
gxh6 threatening ...e5 attack on Nd4 and Bg5 Queen skewer to follow with.
Or perhaps if they tried zwishenzug there after 2..gxh6 Nxe3 3.h6xg7 Bxg7 (if Be7 never played) 4.Qxe3 and again we have their K& Q lined up, with potential to play
Bh6 ... before or after an e5 move, perhaps even with or without an ...e5. Combinative ideas are arising from the unreleased Tension created from pieces being under fire. There is much to consider, it seems.
How long do we have now?
Regards! }8-)


far1ey

4/29/2007
01:29:56

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Message:
We have two days to move now, and I am unable to PP if necessary because I have recently PP. I will try to post more tonight but I am busy because school is starting next week! Need to finish off (start) my assignments :D
Regards,


far1ey

4/30/2007
04:22:01

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Message:
We're running low on time, and I have a gut feeling that we will be wanting a decent ammount of time for the next move :| May the battle commence!

From both our brief, hurried looks at the position Bd7 seems ok for now...

Just a quick note:
Okay, I understand completely your thinking about d5, although the move looks safe now it has dire consequences awaiting us if we play it.
About the h5 push I would consider this a rather interesting move, although it will have its drawbacks as you state but it is well worth keeping it in the back of our minds in case we ever feel that we can win by an attack on the king, and the move will delay white for the few precious tempos to get our attack rolling.

Sorry about the bussiness and the rushiness (?) of the situation.

Regards,



ccmcacollister

5/01/2007
19:44:14

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hi ...

Message:
our main problem with Bd7, which I didnt even note ealier either, is the taking of the square for Nd7 retreat if needed. I think I may have liked Nd7 now even. But were still in this and intersting things may happen soon it seems, as you say :)
I wonder if we Have to play e5 tio stop a NxBb5 or if opening the a-file is strong by axb5. hmmm I do wish we had sunk the WT K into b1 fi the a-opens, with the Qa5 Qc7 maneuver, but really had no thought of That opening up earlier! :)


ccmcacollister

5/02/2007
01:44:25

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OFF the cuff stuff ....

Message:
Maybe they cannot let us open the a-file. I'm not sure at this glance ... but potential for fun huh?! :)
Bd7
15. g5 hxg5
16. hxg5 Nh5
17. g6 Bb5
18. gxf7+ Kxf7
19. Nxb5 axb5
20. b3 Rxa2
21. bxc4 Qa5
22. Nf4 b3


ccmcacollister

5/02/2007
15:38:02

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A WT piece sac that

Message:
looks dangerous to us ... and not really even a sac if we cannot save our Nf6. But anyway, interesting ideas ... maybe there could be something in this theme that WILL work for us?! (An alternative in the following, they might play 19.Nf5 also)
..................Bd7
15. g5 hxg5
16. hxg5 Rxh3
17. Rxh3 Nxe3
18. Qxe3 e5
19. Rh8 exd4
20. Nxd4 Rc8
21. Rd2
**********
We are looking awfully exposed in this thing here.
..............


far1ey

5/06/2007
00:21:46

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Message:
okay the pp gives us alot of time but I dont think we should 'slack off' instead we should try see a few moves ahead to give us more time.

I recently obtained a perfectly legal copy of the chessbase megadatabase and there is actually a game there which they may be following:

[Event "EU-ch U20"]
[Site "Aviles"]
[Date "2000.08.19"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Jakovenko, Dmitrij"]
[Black "Fernandez Romero, Ernesto"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B66"]
[WhiteElo "2506"]
[BlackElo "2383"]
[PlyCount "73"]
[EventDate "2000.08.18"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "ESP"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2000.09.14"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8.
O-O-O h6 9. Be3 Bd7 10. f3 Qc7 11. g4 Ne5 12. h4 b5 13. Bh3 Nc4 14. Qd3 b4 15.
Nce2 Nxe3 16. Qxe3 e5 17. Nf5 g6 18. Nfg3 Qa5 19. Kb1 Be6 20. Nc1 Nd7 21. Qe1
Qb6 22. Nf1 Be7 23. Ne3 Bxh4 24. Qxh4 Qxe3 25. g5 Bxh3 26. Qxh3 Qxg5 27. Rxd6
Qe7 28. Rhd1 Nf6 29. Rxa6 O-O 30. Rxa8 Rxa8 31. Qxh6 Qc5 32. Qd2 Qa5 33. Qd6
Kg7 34. Qd3 Nh5 35. Qc4 Nf6 36. Rd6 Qa4 37. Rb6 1-0

unfortunately we are a tempo behind the game continuation if I see correctly, that makes it a bit harder... alot harder...

I also had the thought of g5 misplacing our knight - just after I actually accepted Bd7 (submitted it) I thought... hmmm g5!! then again it cant be all bad, white has only just started with counterplay and we have serious threats after Bb5!



perhaps we can sac a piece!!
After g5...
g5 Bb5!?
Nxb5 axb5
gxf6 Rxa2!?
c3 Qa5! (forces mate not sure about the continuations...)
cxb4 Ra1+
Kc2 Qa4+
looks equal but perhaps black can do better after
cxb4 Qa4!!


g5 Bb5!?
gxf6 Qa5!!
now fxg7 loses to Qxa2!!
c3 (the best try) Qa1+
Kc2 b3+
Kxb3 Qa4#!
a fen for the pretty mate.


The best try is Qb3 in my eyes:
Qb3 and I am not sure what now.... what can you see? how about Qb3 Rc8!?

interesting posts craig, I dont know about you but I am not the soundest defender I allways prefer counterattacking. That said it is probably not best to go off on a wild attack with the rook and bishop still at home :(

we have 13 days although we should get the next move at LEAST ready so we can move as soon as they do to give us more time... predicting a few moves would also be handy but if you have other commitments then I'm sure we'll be fine

Regards,
Far1ey


ccmcacollister

5/18/2007
19:01:42

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farley

Message:
in your first line there, after Rxa2, c3 instead of Qa5 doesnt simply b3 push mate quickly? Covering the only escape square. And of course Qa5 if Kb1.
****
Don't we lose a piece tho if WT does not take our Bb5? EG
15. g5 Bb5
16. gxf6 Qa5
17. Qb3 Nxe3
18. Qxe3 Qxa2
Of course not 17.Kb1?? or Na3+ to win WT Queen
but for move 19. Either Qb3 or Nb3 looks okay for WT, to me?
Am I missing something there?
***


ccmcacollister

5/19/2007
17:14:35

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Fascinating !...

Message:
that you found a game in "book", so close to ours! Amazing. ... going to show, there is little New under the Chess-sun :)
Other tactical moves to remember: Ne5 is very forcing and probably the only one of these that it seems might actually be a practical consideration anytime soon.
Other opening-up moves:Nxb2 or Na3 ... but dont see where we have any followup.
So just to keep in mind, if an attack should start ...
We could also capture hxg5 first. Tho I think you might be right not considering it to be overly important. since if we open the h-file we just have to move off of it with Rg8 ...which does have some precedent in some GM games I viewed. Or otherwise if we trade it seems that Wt will just get that file since he has another rook that can swing over to there. Then for effect I presume it would have to go to Rh8 and perhaps have some sac vs what ever piece we have on f8 most likely. If his Queen could follow such, it would perhaps be dangerous to us :))
Need to consider which Ng8 or Nh5 looks a better retreat?
And to always check if the push of g5-g6 will hurt us ...basically from any of the Squares touching the f7 point I'd suppose. Eg e6, g6, f7, f6 and associated diagonals.
What are you thinking on a N posting for us?


far1ey

5/21/2007
02:03:29

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Message:
quickly - looks like it wont work then as neither of us can find a way after Qb3. Something to keep in mind but...

Which square is best? I am not entirely sure, h5 looks pretty safe to me and Im sure g6 is fine IF we get an attack to distract the white play against the hole. (consider Bg7!? too!!)

Best,
far1ey


ccmcacollister

5/21/2007
16:45:19

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WE now have a VERY INTERESTING

Message:
IDEA of playing Ba4!? right now, I think. Threat is Nxe3 to draw queen from c2 protection and mates if he recaptured. (Tho they can trade that Be3 for the Nf6 N via pxn after Ba4.
Otherwise tho we hope they will occupy the b3 square with something ... so their Q cannot use it later. For EG if Nb3 now we have choice of looking again at Bb5 then ... or move of Nf6.
If they go with the weakening ...Ba4 b3 then I think Nxe3 Might play. Or would it not gain enough if they went with pxN and pXB ...
Unfortunately I{ havent got into figuring that line at all really (unexpected minor surgery today on like 1/2 hour notice ...never again!) So I may be totally off on this idea ...The
pink elephant keeps steppin in front of the board; the white knight is on his head, talking backwards of course ...

Ng8 makes em come to us and defends h6 ... possible Ne7 later, tho Be7 is feeling more likely at the moment. But is not very active right now and our Rook stays at home.
Nh4 is more active as for trading if they Ng3 and such ...and our Rook has more chance to get active. Then again if it GETS active ... just to have it trade for a WT Rook ...when they have another R to come over and replace it .... (unless we could tie it up in defense?! or such) is not much gain either, if any. And will the Na4 be a good target to gain them time attacking or using it for line opening?!
Well I cant say right now, as that is what I have not looked at too.
Also is Nh7 which could some day maybe get to Nf8!? but can it even live there? And gives a forced lineopening for them if they push to g6 anytime ...

If Ba4 does work then maybe the N move is a delayed decision tho too. What do you think there ... ? Any obvious pitfall or dislike there?

Just noticed a bit ago, if we did play hxg5 first, then it just might give them a chance to play something like Bxe6!? ...Rxh1 Bxd7+~! xd7 RxRh1 .... !?!


ccmcacollister

5/21/2007
17:13:13

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One sample line

Message:
16. b3 Nxe3
17. gxf6 Nxd1
18. bxa4 Nf2
19. Qe3 Nxh1
20. Qg1 gxf6
21. Qxh1 Qc4

or 21....Rc8!? to threaten ...f5 and ...e5 ......!?

or they have 18. WTxNd1 available too, earlier....


ccmcacollister

5/23/2007
07:14:13

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well

Message:
Right you are Far1ey ... that Nd4 will rather spoil things for c2 attacks :(

far1ey

5/28/2007
01:43:12

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Message:
I am really not sure whether Nh5 or Ng8 is better, Nh5 isolates the knight a bit too much for my liking while undeveloping the knight is also awkward. I am happy with whatever you think - I really cant see whether one is better then the other.

far1ey

5/31/2007
23:17:16

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Message:
Okay we must move in the next day, if we decide not to exchange pawns (as one of your posts states) then how bout we move Nh5? I don't really see any point in undeveloping a piece even if we post a piece on the rim.

Sorry for the lack of posts on my part - exams are soon and I am busy studying.

Thanks again,
Far1ey


ccmcacollister

6/01/2007
23:50:29

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Howdy Andrew ...

Message:
Sorry here too. It has just been too hectic here till now. But at least we are done car shopping ... for a long time I hope! I am taking a good look at things tonight. The knight moves, plus various passive sacs aor lines involving Ne5 aor a5/a4 etc ... and perhaps see what shows up. Hoping to be in better analytical shape this night than the last one.
Shall see.
It really "Feels" like we should have some interesting tactical play however ...
as some of the one-shot ideas there are very forcing it seems, so surely intuition says we should be within a tempo or so of something good ... if not right there right now. Maybe even something on the shocking side will be there deeper in. I do hope so, as a good "SHOT" is "better than a kick in the ... pants" :) as Dad always says.
{Of course, Most things ARE :) , but that makes for a reliable cliche' anyway}
Wish we had our K-side more developed as am also looking at some ...d5 as offensive move to seek Q trapping. etc.


ccmcacollister

6/02/2007
04:11:49

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Very interesting threat vs WT Q ...

Message:
that seems to need Nc6 sac back to us, to get out of it .... tho instead of gxf6 they might try to prevent such as maybe a3 or something. Or might repeat their Q moves rather than go to Qb3.

g5 Ne5
16. Qd2 Nc4
17. Qd3 Ne5
18. Qb3 Qa5
19. gxf6 Ba4
20. Nc6 Nxc6
21. Qd3 Bb5
22. Qd2 Qxa2
23. Qe1 Bxe2
24. Qxe2 b3
25. cxb3 Qa1+
26. Kc2 Nb4+
27. Kc3 Na2+
28. Kc2 Nb4+
29. Kd2 Qxb2+
30. Ke1 Qxe2+
31. Kxe2 gxf6


ccmcacollister

6/02/2007
19:43:04

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More loose analysis ...

Message:
Ng8
16. f4 e5
17. Bxd7+ Kxd7
18. Nf5 Rc8
19. Bd2 g6
20. Ne-g3 gxf5
21. Bxb4 Nxb2
22. Kxb2 Rb8
23. Ka3 Rxb4
24. Kxb4 d5+
25. Kb3 Qb6+
26. Kc3 Qb4#

WHAT I WONDER AT THE MOMENT ... if we should not lplay Ne5 right now in order that they cannot play f4 to stop it from happening, tho. It would seem to hurt our chances to keep initiative if f4 gets in. Above is just a prelim line. No doubt they might play better .... But can we too?


ccmcacollister

6/02/2007
19:55:43

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WOW ....

Message:
Maybe we better look at Bb5 AGAIN?! real good?
Maybe you were right on that one ... since we were worried by gxNf6 ... but not by
NxBb5?
Can they get out of THIS Line??!

g5 Bb5
16. gxf6 Na5
17. Qd2 e5
18. Nxb5 Nb3+
19. Kb1 Nxd2+
20. Rxd2 axb5


ccmcacollister

6/02/2007
20:06:02

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Never mind ...

Message:

I guess the pawn at a2 ruins it. I am not seeing tonight, better stop. sorry


4. Bh3 Bd7
15. g5 Bb5
16. gxf6 Na5
17. Qd2 e5
18. Nxb5 Nb3+
19. axb3 axb5
20. Qd3


ccmcacollister

6/05/2007
05:11:53

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Does Nh4 lost material or not?

Message:
At first I thought it would give a pawn. Then ran this prelim analysis and looked to hold. But I havnt had a definative look. Are you convinced its okay then? If it holds up them whichever you prefer, Im game for . My analysis has been way off lately as you konw.
Nh5
16. Bg4 g6
17. Bxh5 gxh5
18. Ng3 hxg5
19. hxg5 h4
20. Rh3 Be7
21. Rd-h1 Nxe3
22. Qxe3 Rg8
23. Ng-e2 Bxg5
24. f4 Be7


far1ey

6/10/2007
04:41:18

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Message:
Really busy with exams now... I pp for five days but it has run out....

Sorry about the lack of posts - should be back to normal mid-week.

Just quickly:I think that Nh4 has plenty of +/-. We have a isolated knight on the rim but it does prevent any Ng3 and is very annoying. No time for analysis sorry. Sure you understand.

Far1ey


far1ey

6/13/2007
00:34:14

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Message:
Okay - exams are over :D

I had a look over your analysis and again at the position and can't find anything wrong with Nh4. It is also annoying for white as it hinders an attack and perhaps g6 Ng7 is something to keep in mind?!

Nh4...


far1ey

6/15/2007
19:30:52

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Message:
Uh oh... Nh4 g6! The point of Bh3 - to attack the e pawn. We are in serious trouble.

Options as it stands:
- Ignore threat since gxf7+ Kxf7 protects the pawn. Meanwhile we can go on with our attack (Bb5!?) Or something else...
- Sacrifice the e pawn in the most favourable way possible. Looks desperate to me but something along the lines of f6/f5 should be noted.
- Take the g pawn fxg6 and after the taking of the e pawn look for somewhere to put our king.

All options look risky - g6 was completely unexpected (although we did anticipate something against the e pawn).

Personally I think we must try and complicate the position with Bb5!? I know I have been kind of narrow minded with the move but there arent many possibilities...






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