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daphsa03
8/13/2007
01:55:02
[ report abuse ] |
 Subject: Let's send a powerful message to GK No: 3
Message:
I promised to open a new thread while gameknot doesn’t stop me!
To you who are first time visitors on this thread, please read first the 2 previous threads launched by me, it is in interest of understanding what we are talking about.
Here we go again two messages from GameKnot, one to heinzkat and one to chrisobee. Messages contradicting each other.
I want to make it sure that GameKnot understands me. I’m not propagating for unlimited numbers of free accounts. I made suggestion in earlier add about introduction of family member account always connected to at least one premium member player, it should eliminate an irritation of families with kids or more members, but without need of playing more than 12 games. My suggestion wasn’t even commented by GameKnot
A player who sets up cleverdude, cleverdude2, cleverdude3 aso, on same computer with identical profile, isn’t a specially smart dude, that player was never even close to read GameKnot’s Rules and Policy.
We, I and heinzkat and all the others supporting our idea are not talking about the thousand of naive players who want to cheat, but about those who proved their loyalty to GameKnot and paid like in mazsola’s case in several years a platinum membership, but a coming year has no need for premium membership, due his/our activities in the African outback. Maybe the issue affects only few, but that is still a problem and rejecting an idea of manual adjustments of errors made by the automatic monitoring system guides us to a conclusion that it is all about money, once again you can call it whatever you want that is a greed to me.
The suggestion made by chrisobee is not new. This subject was up multiple time on this forum, with a similar answers from GameKnot. I remember for some years ago, when GameKnot rejected to discuss the issue, after a while they promised to look at it, now they work on it, but they need new features, The speed GameKnot handles these problems allow me a guess that about 10 years they have features and start working on it.
It should be a relief, if GameKnot declared that the problem is solved already, while you pay your premium membership you can open any account on any computer for a minimum 40 dollars of year. The only demand for this that a players involved in such activities don’t break the chain, remains a paying member, but as soon as somebody breaks the chain the activity gets disguised.
It is a shameless attitude from GameKnot that they turn their eyes away, let the violation of rules go on for years, but soon as the players downgrade their accounts they face a drastic limitation of their rights and termination of their accounts. BTW anybody who read these threads and all the adds from GameKnot, did you see any answer to this topic?
Once again, can GameKnot take a manual check and make a review on account mazsola of following reason.
He sent you an information about his activities, GameKnot not with a word mentioned that it was a violation of rule, his conclusion that it was ok is supported by the fact that many teams are acting with active co-captains, some teams are openly declare their multiple captain activities on their team pages, so that is not a secret.
According to mazsola’s notes, arcamax07 enjoyed the team June 24th this year, he was assigned 2 team games June 25th , a discussion between player and captain triggered a need of checking a players settings. All this can be verified with a simple check of mazsola's activities those 2 days
I’m asking you, once again to check manually mazsola’s account, if there were any other accounts beside of mine listed, if not please erase the accounts what don’t belong there so we can get this issue closed, off the table, get a satisfactory solution to this in details analyzed issue so we can go back to real reason we are here, playing chess
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heinzkat
8/13/2007
02:34:07
[ report abuse ] | Thanks to gameknot_com
Message:
for answering my question. I'm not completely satisfied, I think, but I understand your point of view. Plus, the automated system was designed by a human so the one who made it (you?) set all the criteria that are needed to suspend an account. So after all, maybe there is no need for human review.
heinzkat
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chrisobee
8/13/2007
02:37:25
[ report abuse ] | Reply to GK
Message:
Thank you for your reply to my message. However, it is hard for me to respond to it as it is so vague as to be virtually meaningless. There are 1000's of GK members who belong to teams, most people I know value team membership and, like me, it is their main reason for being GK members. If you do not value what you say is "only" 8% of the GK membership let us know so we can consider our membership. However, do not forget that team captains pay extra to enable them to be a team captain. So do you really want to lose all these members as well as potential new members or do you intend to do something and if so what ?
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daphsa03
8/13/2007
03:51:46
[ report abuse ] | answer to heinzkat and chisobee
Message:
You both put your fingers on the spot, the program been created by humans and criteria was decided by one or more of members of GameKnot officials. You authorized the programs, you have to make something about it. I’m sure heinzkat agree with that a 7 years of use of the automated system is not a guarantee that a system is satisfactory. I agree with GameKnot that it is almost impossible to make a 100% cover for all eventualities, but when a violation of a individuals rights is that obvious you have to make a manual adjustment instead of the extremely arrogant answer that we decided to have it so.
I complained about your deviant and insulting attitude and we have to see it again. It isn't first time we face GameKnot negligence, this time it is about only 8% of the players, what GameKnot forget to tell us that the majority of the team members are premium members, their finacial value is much higher than “only” 8%, beside all captain have to pay a 50% higher “special” fee for their captaincy, but when they downgrade their accounts, they are not worth a “special” treatment, or an extra check of their accounts, they are not an issue anymore, they belong to those negligible 0,01% GameKnot was talking about on the 1 thread. Beside of change and upgrading of the monitoring system, some change of attitude from GameKnot could be also welcome
Deviance and arrogance doesn’t help GameKnot, we players make this site, you should be more open-minded for suggestion from us, earplugs out please, listen and communicate, no preserved, canned answer as you were delivering here all the time
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balazsgabor
8/13/2007
06:46:32
[ report abuse ] | I would like you reinstate "mazsola" on the team
Message:
I believe, a fairness and justice is the only way to handle the case of our former captain.
All the time on he team I experienced sportmanship, not punishment but recognition should you give him, as I intend to do with this mail.
I'm greateful that I head a pleasure to be a member on the team during his captaincy
I would like you reinstate "mazsola" on the team
I would like a GAMEKNOT admitance that mistake was done.
It would be an essential contribution for a well organized Hungarian team on this site.
Best regards "balazsgabor"
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merlin10
8/13/2007
11:41:33
[ report abuse ] | support for gameknot
Message:
I recently joined the Wandering Hungarians and now regret doing so. What a bunch of whining brats!! This whole thing could be solved by mazsola paying the annual membership dues. Instead we have team members wasting so much time and effort trying to get what basically amounts to a free membership for one person. If you want the priviledge then PAY for it.
The owner of gameknot is running a business. The rules are posted. It is not as if he is not giving you what he promised when you forked over the $40. If you can find a better product then buy it.
Gameknot could change the rules to satisfy the wandering hungarians, but that requires changing working code. This might introduce more bugs to the system. He has to weigh the cost of the code change versus how many members he would lose if the change were not made. Whatever decision he makes, the decision is HIS to make and not the members.
I will finish my current games for the team. After that, I will be leaving the team.
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zafarraya
8/13/2007
12:41:25
[ report abuse ] | GameKnot
Message:
I would like to thank GameKnot for replying to some of the questions. This is a start and positive. It is great that suggestions are considered and sometimes accepted. It would be good if there could be a dialogue about specific suggestions, if they are accepted/declined and why, leading to further improvements.
This issue is not about one member. This is abundantly clear.
This issue is not about free members vs paying members. I am in full support of GameKnot charging for their services - hopefully they are making a good go of it, otherwise this site won't be around for long. Profit is not a bad word.
However, the crux of the issue is this:
If, as a paying member, someone else accesses GameKnot from my computer I/we are not punished. That is within the rules. So, say I have a premium membership and my sister does not. We both play on GameKnot in July. Now, in August, my sister moves out and I decide to become a free member as my paid membership is about to lapse. If I relinquish my paid membership in August, when no one but me is using my computer from then on, I and my sister will still be flagged for something that happened in the past, in July, when I was a paying member. No violations will have happened in August. I should not be punished or removed for letting my paid membership lapse - so long as I am not hosting other GameKnot members on my computer in August. I would take that very seriously. I paid for the privilege in July to have my sister use my computer as a free member. As it is, the GameKnot scripts don't distinguish between past and present and "see" me in August as having multiple players on my computer when that is patently not true.
I am wondering if GameKnot can correct this, so that we aren't retroactively punished. This is all.
Others have suggested that Captains be allowed to access team member's accounts since GameKnot does not have the ability to post a vacation flag for members in an emergency in a timely manner
Appreciate the forum to air views and for GameKnot's replies and serious consideration.
Zafarraya/Scott
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daphsa03
8/13/2007
14:01:42
[ report abuse ] | answer to merlin10
Message:
After a month on the team you still don't know the name of it, our name is Hungarian wanderers, so it doesn't surprise me that you don't feel the loyalty to our former captain as the other members do. The team spirit was shaped and developed during three years, but like you didn't learn the name of your team, you didn't learn what is to be one of us.
More than 100 add to the threads, we manged to keep it clean from insulting language. You have no right to call your team members for bunch of wining brats. We other on the team feel privelaged to play for Hungarien wanderers, why we can also say that we Hungarians are wondering what you are doing on the team.
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ionadowman
8/13/2007
14:05:02
[ report abuse ] | A possible solution to the problem...
Message:
... might be that when a premium account reverts to a free one, there is a certain delay - a month say - that will allow the account holder to wind up outstanding games and to do something about "multiple subscribers" on the one machine (if such a thing is possible).
Alternatively, a direct communication between the subscriber concerned and GK before the event might have gone some way to obviating the impasse that seems to have developed.
On the whole I'm with GK on this argument. The GK position seems to be straightforward enough, despite expressions of non-understanding by a number of posters. However, I agree there ought to be some way for subscribers in the position of mazsola to "normalise" their account once it reverts to a free one. If he had foreseen the event, then why did he not contact GK direct to see what the consequences would be, and what might be done about it?
By the way, this thread is within an ace of being deleted. No, I didn't vote - either way - but did notice that the deletion vote was at +6...
Cheers,
ion
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merlin10
8/13/2007
19:56:23
[ report abuse ] | loyalty?
Message:
I once had a co-worker who was accused by our manager of being disloyal because he decided to quit his job. He looked straight at the manager and said
"If you want loyalty, hire a poodle."
I apologize if I offended daphsa03. I felt the need to show support for GK because I feel that she has consistently misrepresented the facts. What some in the forum may not realize is that she has been sending un-solicited private messages to team members. She has stated in these private messages that mazsola was accused of cheating by GK. Other direct quotes from her messages include the following:
1. "GK challenged us, they wanted to se us on the war-path, we be there"
2. In quoting a challenge she made to GK, "Do you dare to admit that it is not about multiple accounts. It is about your chance to get rid of a person who dared to criticize you and denied to be one of your lapdogs."
3. "We never accept bullies, after all we some more than 80.000 players make this site working not GK management. They gave us an excellent tool to use, but GK administration not even close to the level of the chess engine they created, arrogance, harassment is wrong method to solve problems."
I will leave it to the individual reader to judge the rationality of these statements.
Shortly after my post I received another private message from Daphsa03. In this message she states
"The message is stipulated by the captain, if you don't like our team policy, you can leave the team."
She obviously does not like GK's policy. Perhaps she should take her own advice.
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chilliman
8/13/2007
20:41:06
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
what??? that sounds like double standards! I'm shocked! that's a little hypocritical isn't it?
it seems selective attention is again being applied to site regs
the good news is there are now 13 delete votes for this thread
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cziro
8/13/2007
22:58:20
[ report abuse ] | support
Message:
I would like to support effort by daphsa03 et all. I think that have to be any solution to mazsola`s come back on gameknot.com`s chess boardes.
Palo
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mrskywalker
8/14/2007
00:00:12
[ report abuse ] | hu
Message:
huh?
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daphsa03
8/14/2007
00:28:34
[ report abuse ] | some adds are not worth to comment
Message:
Yes huh, what is that all about, just to get this thread back on track, we are here to discuss an overall problem impacting most of the teams. The huge majority here recognize the problem and try the keep a discussion alive, contributed with lot of excellent and constructive proposals, some dislike it and gives expression to their opinion in a democratic way and some are happy for a votes against this thread and the subject we discus in the name of "democracy"
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aeschylus
8/14/2007
05:09:00
[ report abuse ] | Good Business or bad?
Message:
Y'know, I support Gameknot's right to make money. I am a premium member, not cause I need it to play my games, but because I like the site, and can afford it. But this whole thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because their attempts to catch people who are trying to steal more than is freely offered, seems to be catching people who aren't freeloaders. And if gameknot isn't interested in fixing was is clearly a problem, maybe I don't want to invest so much time here. I have two daughters who are both beginning to get interested in chess. I'm now concerned that if I let them play on gameknot, that at some point we will be booted for having multiple accounts. If the policy were "one free account per family" I suppose I could understand, but the policy is "one free account per person", right? so why can't there be some review of this? I don't understand why gameknot isn't fixing what is obviously not what they intended. Mazsola is a player who will likely pay again in the future, if gameknot were to invest in keeping him, and so are a lot of his supporters. I think they quite frankly risk losing more business than they gain with this policy.
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merlin10
8/14/2007
05:51:34
[ report abuse ] | good business
Message:
aeschylus,
Whether it is one free account per family or per person is irrelevant. Why should you get anything at all for FREE? If your daughters want to play chess then BUY them a membership. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Nothing in life is free. Someone has to pay for it. In this case, bandwidth, management, storage space, dealing with customers.
Your definition of a freeloader is "people who are trying to steal more than is freely offered." What do you call those who DEMAND more than is freely offered?
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merlin10
8/14/2007
05:55:22
[ report abuse ] | suggested change
Message:
I also have a suggestion for GK to end these complaints.
Offer a free membership for 3 months. After that the person has to pay for a membership. My company offers an inventory control software package for sale. We give customers a 6 month trial. After that the software shuts down. In order to continue using the software they have to pay for it. I think the term for this sort of software is herion-ware. Get them addicted and then you have a customer for life.
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remete
8/14/2007
06:13:08
[ report abuse ] | Answer to merlin10
Message:
C'mon,tell us who used more then one free account on the same Pc? Mazsola did not.
If the free account still exists,maybe GK has a good reason to keep it.lots of free members become premium members,that's how it works in business.
Of course every free user has limited possibilities here,and that's right. The question is:why can not mazsola get those limited possibilities,what every free user gets(for exammple:free communication on gameknot)?
He will pay again,when he is back from his travelling.
Zoltán
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heinzkat
8/14/2007
06:17:49
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
"The question is:why can not mazsola get those limited possibilities,what every free user gets(for exammple:free communication on gameknot)?"
Exactly, mazsola has got those limited possibilities. We are talking in circles. I suggest he just pays a bronze membership ($ 9,99 right? Or isn't it available anymore?) to get himself no restrictions anymore for the oncoming year.
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merlin10
8/14/2007
06:23:32
[ report abuse ] | how it works in business
Message:
I run my own business remete and giving out free stuff is not "how it works in business." Try starting a business yourself and you will find out quick how it really works. Good customers are the ones that pay. If your team feels so strongly about this then why don't they pay for Mazsola's membership?
GK simply does not choose to give Mazsola a free account. Whether it is for personal or business reasons does not matter. It is his business.
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remete
8/14/2007
07:02:49
[ report abuse ] | To merlin10
Message:
Is not he good enough with three years of platinum membership behind his back? I wish to Gk lots of costumers like him.
Anyway,i will think about to pay a silver membership to mazsola.Idon't want to fight with GK,'cos i find it very needless.
Regards:Zoltán
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merlin10
8/14/2007
07:16:51
[ report abuse ] | good enough?
Message:
Mazsola paid for 3 years membership and received exactly what he paid for. It is not a question of being "good enough." You could take the same approach from a different angle. GK gave him 3 years of great service. Isn't GK entitled to more money? Absolutely not.
No one is ENTITLED to anything. You get what you negotiate/pay for and nothing more.
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aeschylus
8/14/2007
07:53:11
[ report abuse ] | consistency
Message:
merlin - I can appreciate your view. No one deserves something for free. But it IS good business for web sites like this to have a "free" but limited service, to get people hooked that will pay for the additional services at some point. Weblogs have it, etc. I would think that gameknot would be interested in providing these limited but free services consistently. Their automatic system seems to boot people who are only trying to get what gameknot says they allow and does allow to other people. I don't understand why they don't want to fix it when it doesn't work as intended, specifically when it incorrectly categorizes someone as having multiple accounts when they don't. I don't understand why gameknot doesn't seem to want to address that (and if its a time constraint, they can buy themselves some time by giving the occassional user the benefit of the doubt - or they can just tell us - "sorry we're working on fixing that - have patience").
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merlin10
8/14/2007
08:29:26
[ report abuse ] | good business
Message:
I agree that it is good business to be consistent in general. However, there is nothing wrong with treating individual customers differently. In my business I have given a few freebies to good customers who buy product consistently and stay low mantainence. There are other customers who are high mantainence and I bill them for every dollar possible. I have actually sent some high mantainence customers to my competitors.
In this case I would give nothing free to either Daphsa03 or Mazsola. Clearly high mantainence. Daphsa03 has made wild accusations against GK. She has made claims of a vendetta against her, Mazsola, and the team. She has insinuated that GK is getting ready to censor her. In her attempt to gain support, she has misrepresented the facts of this case to team members in her private messages. She has not requested, but rather has demanded things from GK. GK has shown remarkable patience and restraint. Personally I would have given her the boot days ago.
According to GK, Mazsola is getting what everyone else gets for free. Even if GK wants to give something for free to others and not to Mazsola, that is his perogative. It is his business.
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daphsa03
8/14/2007
09:24:59
[ report abuse ] | general call to all of you
Message:
Please , don't reply to merlin10, he conducting this debate to wrong direction. Ignore him and report his adds, you find abusing for GK, there are some of them.
I wonder where is GK now
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heinzkat
8/14/2007
09:31:28
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
merlin10 has some - really - good points, why ignore him? We could also say 'ignore everything daphsa03 has to say', but how far would that get us?
Just a thought.
heinzkat
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daphsa03
8/14/2007
10:01:25
[ report abuse ] | anser to heinzkat
Message:
If you read all his all his adds, you understand, till today he was a member on Hunagarian wanderers, he called us for for "whining brunch of brats". He was irritated the we were campaigning for this thread, he made hie point, we accept and respect evrybody's right to have an opinion, also him contrary to him. First he won't have a discussion and now he is taking over the thread. mazsola doesn't get what every fee member gets. I been stopped from possibility to invite captains to discuss this thread, I call it censorship. He also contacted me with an gressie private message, I replied to it and let him know that the message he got it was to all members on the team, the message is the one I opend the first thread. Beside of that I kept the team informed about the developmnet. I informed him in my only privatr reply that as member on the team, also in future he shall gonna get messages from other team members and as additional information I let him know that as first player ever he I shall ignore list him.
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starcairs
8/14/2007
10:10:34
[ report abuse ] | How irritating !
Message:
All very unpleasant to hear what happened to maszola.
After reading all the nasty business in these threads, this seems IMO to be the point: no matter if you're "high-maintenance" or "low maintenance" , when you stop paying, you get your profile erased, lose your messaging rights, get kicked out of your team PLUS lots of abuse from guys like merlin10.
This seems like real punishment to me.
Ouch!
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gameknot_com
8/14/2007
10:48:44
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
To starcairs: I can certainly see how you might have arrived at that conclusion, but unfortunately you've been misinformed. It appears daphsa03 is trying her hardest to misrepresent the situation every chance she gets to suit her needs. Having failed to find much support among other team captains, she is now trying mobilized her entire team it seems. Thankfully only a few team members so far prefer to choose blind loyalty over reason and logic. Nevertheless they've now started to report as abuse pretty much every post in this message thread from anyone who even remotely disagrees with daphsa03. It's now getting quite ridiculous and is wasting a lot of time for a lot of people.
I guess I'm going to have to repeat myself once again. I apologize to everyone beforehand, and believe me, I find no please in doing it.
No, player "mazsola" was not punished for anything. No, he is not being accused of anything, nor do we imply in any way that he did anything "wrong". After his premium subscription expired, the limitations of a free membership started to apply to his account again (as they are applied equally to all free members). Because not being able to have other players listed as using the same computer is a limitation of a free account, his account was automatically suspended. It happens to dozens of accounts every day, so player "mazsola" was not singled out in any way. Subscribing to a premium membership again will immediately restore his account.
And no, if you subscribe to a premium membership and then decide not to renew at some point, you will not unconditionally lose your ability to play chess on GameKnot. Only of you have many other users listed as playing from the same computer. Which, as I already pointed out before, affects a very small percentage of players here on GameKnot.
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zafarraya
8/14/2007
11:05:36
[ report abuse ] | GameKnot
Message:
How does one get "many other users listed as playing from the same computer" removed if they are no longer using said computer anymore? What is the procedure?
GameKnot can surely determine at any point in time if a user accesses their account from a computer so when they can no longer do that, the computer should be "clean".
Thanks,
Zafarraya
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gameknot_com
8/14/2007
11:12:26
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
To merlin10: please be respectful of your opponents. It isn't very helpful to call someone names, especially since there's already plenty of drama in this message thread. Not to mention that it is against forum posting rules.
To daphsa03: it is quite funny to hear from you the following: "More than 100 add to the threads, we manged to keep it clean from insulting language." Considering that I already warned you about being respectful of other posters in this thread (in the part 1 or 2? I forget) and that you yourself keep throwing every possible insult at GameKnot and accusing us of every possible sin every chance you get. I have to admit, I can't even bring myself to read most of your posts all the way through because of it. I wish I was more thick-skinned, but I guess I'm not. You said GameKnot has "deviant and insulting attitude"? What does it even mean? I guess insults don't always have to mean something, it's all about trying to hurt the other side by any means possible anyway. I guess you have succeeded, as I have zero desire to reply to any of your posts.
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merlin10
8/14/2007
11:28:39
[ report abuse ] | answer daphsa03
Message:
What agressive private message did I send to Daphsa03? I sent her a message asking that she stop sending me her updates on the mazsola situation. I challenge Daphsa03 to quote me directly from any message I sent. Just as I have quoted her directly from messages she sent to the team.
Daphsa03 has GK's explanation of what happened to Mazsola's account. She never presented this to the rest of the team while I was a member.
I would like Daphsa03 to respond to these questions:
1. Do you still believe that Mazsola was accused of cheating?
2. Do you still believe that GK is trying to censor you?
3. Do you still believe that Mazsola was singled out for special treatment and/or punishment?
These are all accusations you have made in the threads and in private messages to the team. If you now believe these things are not true, should you not send a private message to the team telling them so? Also don't you feel that you owe an apology to GK for making these accusations?
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pietje
8/14/2007
11:32:32
[ report abuse ] | I know a solution.
Message:
I think I have a solution for all this discussions.
A good chess site (such as Gameknot) need to be payed. So free members would be forced to become a paid member. That's okay and normal. (look at the other chess sites on the net) But the method which Gameknot uses is unfair. A much better method is that you can register for a free trial membership of 30 days. After that period you can decide if you will continue with a paid membership, or leave the site.
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merlin10
8/14/2007
11:54:48
[ report abuse ] | response to GK
Message:
You are right. I should not have used the term "whining brats." My bad. Won't happen again.
I don't think you have to apologize for not being thick skinned. I don't know how you have tolerated this much.
I would like to congratulate you on a well run site and service. My chess has greatly improved since joining your site. I still play on ICC for faster time controls, but being able to take a few days and actually study a position has taught me a lot. I plan on remaining a member of both clubs. Keep up the good work.
And I think that in spite of what you have heard in this forum, 99% of the PAYING customers feel they are getting a great deal. I know how frustrating it can be at times. Most of the feedback you hear is negative. It is rare that customers compliment you on the things you do right. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just the way it is.
I tell my engineers that when they design a prototype, they will make 1000 decisions. All that anyone will ever see are the 10 mistakes, not the 990 good decisions.
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daphsa03
8/14/2007
14:18:34
[ report abuse ] | answer to gameknot
Message:
I’m not surprised that players without all the facts at hand get things wrongt, but when GK comes with an insinuation that I deliberately send out disinformation, I have to react. I have no other needs that get a fair treatment for a player, who was always fair an just in all situations, but in this very moment can’t speak for him self because GK “rewarded” him with silence. I use word reward because GK keeps telling us that mazsola is not punished GK is also far away from the true when like here insinuates that I had a chance to contact all the captain and I asked them for support.
Fact 1. I managed to contact approximately 25% of all teams, many team captains still on vacation. I been stopped by GK and got a warning for “spamming”
Fact 2. I never asked any team captain for support, I invited them for debate on this thread
It is second time GK comes with this allegation, it was wrong first time and it is wrong second time too.
Yes I asked the team-mates for support, after all it is team matter and to be on team is having common issues. The one who openly disliked it the team we shall not drop a tear for him. I’m talking about a player who after 6 weeks on the team didn’t know the name of the team he was playing on. The very player call his team mates with different names, he insulted us and me in several adds, but you let him continue, sure you need him, he supports you. I with same profanity would be kicked immediately from this thread
The only misrepresentation is the information on mazsola’s profile, 5 players we never heard about.
I found it also remarkable that you use your monitoring system to bug or internal team matters and present them here, what right do you have to do that. That is a flagrant violation of our team matters. One additional system and GK’s contribution to a free debate and democracy. I’m stopped from messaging to the team, so that’s about all the chances I had.
I have one private request to you on GK stop sending out disinformation and stop your efforts to dishonor me, you “fly” little bit too low
The only reason this thread continues is your deviant attitude and a total lack of will to answer my questions. Yes it is wasting time, but if you dedicated only shred of the time you used to fight me, discredit me and instead used it for answering to my questions and correct an error made by your monitoring system, the thread would be a history for “ages” ago.
I don’t care, if you do it, because I’m quite sure you gonna stop me soon or later in the name of the “genuine GK democracy”.
One more time just to get the thread back on track. All the rubbish about who is a private whatever, doesn’t belong here.
GK is a fiscal person/company established in US, the company rules have to fit the national law.
GK is entitled to legislate the company’s Rules and Policy, in this function GK is a legislative power, but GK is also a supervising and executive power too.
When a players sign up on this site, it up to them or that is the players obligation to get information about the rules. An explanation that I didn’t know about that and that is not an excuse to violate a rules. The lack of knowledge about them doesn’t excuse the violation and it doesn’t give a reason to believe that the punishment would be mitigated (softer)
I believe so far GK agrees with me.
The next question is if the supervising power GK again, in a role of executive power GK again, consequently retaliates all violations of Rules and Policy, or GK had knowledge about the violations and consequently neglected to retaliate the violations.
The answer is, yes it commonly known that team captains and co-captains violates the rules. A violation of the rules been discussed with GK (mazsola wrote to GK, “I opened his account, but his setting is ok”) and teams here on the site openly declare the violation of the rules. They publish that they have active co-captains.
These violations are going on years after years with GK’s knowledge, without any warning without any retaliation. The punishment comes when a former captain downgrades his account, he gets a retroactive punishment.
Let’s discuss the issue:
The need of captain’s and co-captain’s access to each other’s accounts and the right to open team player’s account for checking and helping them with settings
We have thousands of players who speak only their national tongue, they get disoriented with all the foreign languages and texts, they need help, shall GK allow an active help from captains or co-captains, like setting of team games and vacation flag.
Any time the captains and a nominated co-captains downgrade their accounts, they get their “sheets” about multiple accounts erased.
Now my favorite subject, my beloved husband mazsola!!
Captains in precise situation were not removed from their teams, players who downgraded their accounts, were not either removed from their teams, where is the equal treatment of all free members you are talking about.
You accepted the violation, the opening somebody else’s account, no warning no punishment when it happened. You continue to accept the violation, you are neglecting the violation for money. Mazsola has no need for entering any other players account in the future. 5 of those accounts have nothing to do with our computer, this if something should convince you that the monitoring system is inadequate.
Please let’s get at least this issue of the table, you make a manual check and see that those accounts don’t belong to our laptops. Beside, I’m sure you already checked, but unfortunately the prestige and your proud stops you to adjust mazsola’s account
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silhouet2003
8/14/2007
14:57:44
[ report abuse ] | to GK
Message:
why do you tolerate all these discussions? someone who has such a frustration has to be very unhappy, unhappy cause he or she can't find good arguments for his or her frustration !!!!!
only 10 players have the discussion, the other (how many? .00000 players) are grateful to have the opportunity to play...
why don't you stop this irrelevant show and do the things what the majority of players want...a good side where we can have fun with our hobby !!!
let's all shake hands and go on having good times ...the ones who can put all the negative energy in this discussion are the ones who haven't had serious problems in their lives and may be grateful they haven't ...
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merlin10
8/14/2007
15:53:23
[ report abuse ] | pay the man
Message:
I don't know of any players with FREE MEMBERSHIPS and MULTIPLE USERS who are receiving different treatment. Does anyone else?
GK offers an easy solution to the problem:
"Subscribing to a premium membership again will immediately restore his account. "
I would suggest paying the man if you want the priviledge.
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daphsa03
8/14/2007
17:40:18
[ report abuse ] | answer to gameknot
Message:
You find it funny , I don’t.
Let’s things get strait, You warned me because I asked a player who kept returning to the thread and complaining that it was still going on to leave the thread and contact GK and tell you that he loves GK, maybe GK should reward him with flowers. You warned me for this, I was crossing the line. You found me insulting, the player sent me a private messages apologized for his behavior, he did the same on the thread too. A gentleman after all, could admit a mistake.
This is the third thread, here first time I used the word deviant and that was the reason to your zero desire to answer to my posts on first thread, second thread and now also on the third thread. I wish I had your ability to see into the future, I certainly should play on lottery, talking about finding something funny. BTW where is your generous offer gone, you can insult me how much you want, but not the …..
I have totally different analyze to your zero desire, it was there from the very beginning.
Finally, I ask you to remind your admirer and supporter who keeps coming back without any other reason than be polemical, all his questions aimed to me and to anybody are already answered in posts sent to thread 1,2 and 3. His posts are just a copies short and long versions what he already said 'pay'.
The issue is not about that, let's discuss the overall problem
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merlin10
8/14/2007
17:54:06
[ report abuse ] | define the problem
Message:
Daphsa03,
Can you state the overall problem in 5 sentences or less without insutling anyone?
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ganstaman
8/14/2007
18:13:55
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
You know what's funny (well, to me at least)? When I first started reading all this, uh, stuff (can't think of a better word just yet), I was rather firmly on daphsa03 's side. It made a lot of sense to me and I felt it was right.
But the more I read, the more I realized that gk.com had it right from the start. Reading what happened (finding a set of facts consistent with gk.com's reaction and dapsha's reaction), I see what a complete overreaction this is to a rather simple issue addressed by gk.com from the start. It amazes me.
mazsola knowingly and willing broke rules that he knew would bring no repercussions so long as he kept a paid account. How could it possibly be any simpler?
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daphsa03
8/14/2007
19:47:29
[ report abuse ] | answer to ganstaman
Message:
I give you one name of a player, "viking2" a former team captain he too, check his profile and the names listed there, you shall recognize some players, your team captain too, take a chit chat with them, after that you understand what I'm talking about
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merlin10
8/14/2007
20:14:48
[ report abuse ] | viking2
Message:
it looks as if viking2 is in the same boat as mazsola. He was last seen on GK 53 days ago. It appears that his premium membership expired in June. Everything past June 20 on his game list is a loss by timeout.
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merlin10
8/14/2007
20:26:56
[ report abuse ] | interesting difference
Message:
viking2 is still showing up as a team member so there must be something in the automated bot that sees a difference.
One interesting difference between viking2 and mazsola is that none of the free members on viking2's account have any active games going on, whereas mazsola shows some free members with active games.
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olean_don
8/14/2007
20:39:51
[ report abuse ] | just wondering
Message:
If mazsola has been suspended, why is he being shown as being on GK 11hrs ago.
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chilliman
8/14/2007
21:09:33
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
he isn't suspended, just some of his privileges have been removed due to him assuming unpaid site member status
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zafarraya
8/14/2007
21:28:11
[ report abuse ] | Chilliman
Message:
We are both in agreement with the idea of "take what you want and pay for it", correct? So, what do you think of the retroactive nature of the lapse in preimium membership? As a paying member you are allowed to have other free users on your computer. As a free member you are not. Fair enough. But, if you cease to become a premium member, and you have no free users on your computer as at the time you cease to become a free member, and you never have any free members using your computer, then why should you be "sanctioned" for having them in the past - when you were paying for the privilege? This is the only thing I don't understand and so far gk.com has not provided an answer.
Ganstaman, did mazsola knowingly and willingly break the rules? Did he allow free users on his computer when he became a free member or only when he was a premium member - where it is fully within the rules? I am not sure this has been answered or if we know.
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ganstaman
8/14/2007
22:05:13
[ report abuse ] | daphsa03 and zafarraya
Message:
daphsa03 : Not much of an answer to me. All you show me is that lots of people knowingly break the rules. As for my own team, I sadly have little loyalty there. I'm actually going to drop it soon -- I like my team captain and team members, but I much prefer to pick my own games and not be forced to play when I don't have time.
zafarraya : -> gameknot.com
"5. You may not create nor use more than one account on GameKnot. Only one player per account is allowed."
I may be missing it, but I don't see it saying anywhere that paying members are allowed to use more than one account. The use of any two accounts for any reason or any length of time seems to be illegal here. Just because they let it slide sometimes doesn't mean it's not still illegal and punishable whenever they want.
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zafarraya
8/14/2007
22:45:46
[ report abuse ] | Ganstaman
Message:
I am not talking about creating more than one account. I am talking about having only one account, accessing only one account, using only one account.
I am talking about multiple users accessing their own accounts on the same computer. There is a huge difference. Premium membership seems to allow this, free membership does not. Again, no issue. Now read my post in that light with respect to the retroactive nature of sanctioning.
If you are referring to mazsola, I am not sure if he created more than one account. As far as I know, he did not. If you are talking about Captains accessing their team members accounts for vacation flags, that is another issue. It says "use more than one account". I tend to view use of an account as "playing games" or "making moves", otherwise why would you have have an account? You create an account to play chess. Posting a vacation flag for someone is a courtesy, not using another's account. If I was in a parking lot and saw your lights on, I would open your car (if it was open) and turn them off as a courtesy to you and/or given the keys do so for you - with the implicit understanding that this did not give me permission to "use" your car. I didn't "use" your car for its intended purpose (transportation), I simply turned of your lights. See the difference? GameKnot stated once in this thread that people should contact them and they will set the vacation flag. This was shown to be absurd and not feasible when it takes them up to 3 days to respond to mails - not a criticism, simply an observation. I believe someone also on one of the threads said they did ask once and nothing was done. I believe GameKnot has let this account accessing for vacation flagging slide because they know they can't hope to manage it themselves. Fine. Therefore, when a user goes to free membership s/he shouldn't be sanctioned for something done in the past and allowed by GameKnot at that time, if they are not now doing it.
Sorry if I was unclear.
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gameknot_com
8/14/2007
23:12:13
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
This "discussion" seems to be going in circles. As soon as it feels like we are starting to get somewhere, there appear a number of posts that take us to square one again. I certainly don't find it fun repeating myself over and over again, and I'm sure most of you are sick and tired of my broken record imitation. I think my time would be better spent doing actual work (not to mention that it is certainly way less stressful).
Therefore I'm going back to my self imposed moratorium on participating in these forums. I believe I already answered most of the questions I could (some more than once), and provided enough information that some of the other questions can be answered via use of a bit of logic and reasoning. Here are (hopefully) useful links to my previous posts in this message thread:
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10,
11.
If you still have questions that you didn't find answers to, you are of course welcome to send them using "contact us" link at the bottom of the page and they will be answered by our support staff.
I just wish people would stop jumping to conclusions after reading a single message from someone and would instead do a bit of research on the subject or at least confirm the things stated as facts first. Yes, that applies to my own posts here of course -- please always use your head before letting your fingers go wild typing away. I always hoped that running a chess website would be easier from the customer support standpoint, considering that the chess players are supposed to be good at logic and reasoning.
I cannot stop anyone from continuing this lively discussion of course, so feel free. I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone to be respectful of others here and also would like to provide a friendly warning that there will be consequences to breaking the forum posting rules (as usual). I know that I said before that it's ok to insult GameKnot as much as anyone wishes, but some of you correctly pointed out that it sends a wrong message -- that it is ok to post insults and be disrespectful in these forums. Well, no more please. As stated in the rules, it is not ok to insult anyone here, regardless of whether it is a single person, or a group of people, or an organization or the entire human population. Sorry, thems are the rules.
Thank you for listening and I wish everyone an enjoyable game of chess.
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daphsa03
8/15/2007
05:21:04
[ report abuse ] | let's discuss the facts
Message:
You find it funny , I don’t.
Let’s things get strait, You warned me because I asked a player who kept returning to the thread and complaining that it was still going on to leave the thread and contact GK and tell you that he loves GK, maybe GK should reward him with flowers. You warned me for this, I was crossing the line. You found me insulting, the player sent me a private messages apologized for his behavior, he did the same on the thread too. A gentleman after all, could admit a mistake.
I believe it is first time I can agree, with gameknot, don’t start a debate after reading one single add. Let’s get it right gameknot did not suspended or terminated mazsola’s account. I never said it no one of those who took the thread seriously.
Unfortunately the debate went in wrong direction, those who are hostile made it to a “mazsola got what he deserved”.
His account is invoked with broad spectra of limitations, he is allowed to fulfill his commitments, finishing his games, but not allowed to postpone them, not allowed to answer to his opponent, when he finished his last game his account gets automatically terminated. Let me accentuate what gameknot said mazsola isn’t accused for any wrong doing, he didn’t cheat, he didn’t violate any rules, this addressed to chilliman and company who directed the debate in that direction, instead of debate it turned to be a polemics.
Beside I ask you to read gameknot’s last add.
Be respectful also if you don’t like an answer, the debate is about having different opinions on same issue. Beside of paying respect to each other, please be respectful to the topic, to the issue.
Those who want discuss something else, we have some hear, please open an own thread and start discuss the topic you like, it’s for free.
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heinzkat
8/15/2007
05:28:48
[ report abuse ] | Daphsa03
Message:
The first part of your last post seems like a repeat. Let's close this thread. If daphsa03 insists, she could open a fourth thread on this ... but the outcome will be the same.
In response to gameknot_com: there are some questions (like the one of zafarraya) I haven't seen being answered yet, though. I have to admit that I have lost track of it as well.
Have a good day :-)
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