# chess online

GameKnot related: Could a 2285 rated player fail a 1524 rated tactic?
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rich_sposato
05-Feb-12, 10:25

Could a 2285 rated player fail a 1524 rated tactic?
I'm perplexed by how a player rated at 2285 could fail to understand a tactic rated at 1524.

When I saw this tactic, I deduced in less than half a minute that white should force a rook exchange. The white pawn is a step closer to its goal than the black pawn, so white has an advantage. Once the rooks are out of the way, the game becomes a pawn race. White makes a queen first and the moves the queen to where it skewers the black king and black queen. Black's king is two squares away so it can't take the white queen back.

gameknot.com

If I can figure all this out in 30 seconds, why can't somebody who is rated several hundred points above me? I just don't see how anybody with a rating over 1500 would think the solution leads to a draw - or doesn't see why the black king can't retake after the skewer.
perdurabo
05-Feb-12, 12:34

But Black does not make a queen! If 7...h1=Q?? then White would win, as you say.

However after 7...Kg2! it is a theoretical draw. You can check it with any endgame manual or even with tablebases.

perdurabo
05-Feb-12, 12:42

You might want to watch (from circa 2:54):
www.youtube.com

The only exception, when the side with queen can win is when the own king is close enough already:
www.youtube.com

rich_sposato
05-Feb-12, 16:16

perdurabo, thanks for the youtube links.

Even if black moved the king to protect the pawn and delay promotion, some sequences of moves still lead to checkmate. Once white has the queen, white can move that queen to the g column to check the black king. Black can move the king away from the pawn and thereby leave it defenseless for when white moves the queen to the main white diagonal. Or black can move the king out of check by putting it in front of the pawn. If black uses the king to protect the pawn, white can move its own king in front of the white queen, and black has only two legal moves after that.) As we can see from the moves below, white can then move its own king onto and off of the g column using a series of discovered checks to get the king close enough to threaten mate.

1. ... Rxf4
2. Rg6+ Kf3
3. Rf6 Rxf6
4. Kxf6 h4
5. b6 h3
6. b7 Kg2
7. b8=Q h2
8. Qb7+ Kg1
9. Qg7+ Kh1 (White moves to g column, black moves to protect pawn.)
10. Kg5 Kg2 (White moves king in front of queen, and black has only 2 legal moves.)
11. Kh4+ Kh1 (Both of black's options on move 10 led to discovered check here.)
12. Kg3 Kg1 (White keeps advancing king through a series of king moves ... )
13. Kh3+ Kh1 (... where each leads to discovered check and finally mate.)
14. Qg2#

Now if black moves the king away from the pawn at step 8, I think most outcomes there would lead to a draw.
perdurabo
05-Feb-12, 17:18

8.Qb7+ Kg1
9.Qg7+ ...

now 9...Kh1 loses indeed; however 9...Kf1 or 9...Kf2 both will allow Black a draw.

If after either 9...Kf1 or 9...Kf2 White moves his king, then Black can safely promote his pawn to queen and it's a draw.

If instead the white queen attacks the pawn or checks the black king, then Black moves his king around the g1/g2-squares, keeping the pawn protected without blocking it, always threatening to promote that pawn. If the white queen forces the Black king away from the g-file, he still has the f1/f2-squares.

As far as I can tell, there is no way for White to make progress, if Black does not make a mistake. Assuming correct play from both sides, it is a draw.

In my opinion such endgames are very difficult and I'm not sure if I could find the correct defense over the board during a game, especially under time pressure. So I appreciate this tactical exercise and the discussion as a good way to exercise some endgame skill. That being said, I still think that the tactical exercise is flawed as such, because a win cannot be forced.
baronderkilt
06-Feb-12, 11:24

I know how an 1800 player can miss it ...
by thinking the pawns are moving in the wrong directions ! (Walks away grumbling) }B<
ganstaman
06-Feb-12, 18:28

www.k4it.de

The position is drawn. You can still learn from it, but there can be no debating this truth.