GameKnot: GameKnot related, Team messages

GameKnot related: Team messages

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tactical_abyss
16-Dec-12, 07:21

P.S...

Let me add and conclude a few facts...

Without mentioning the chess site names,most,if not all of the better sites are not doing anything different than GK is.They do not give you the golden keys to those sites as a free member.Most "allow"you to play,but with some kind of limitations as a free member.They may not be the same limitations of GK,but they still exist.Other sites,without mentioning names will
"allow"you to play for a short amount of time or a finite number of games for a short while,then ask you to PAY if you want to continue playing on that site.....OTHERWISE,you WILL BE disconnected from that chess site.Atleast GK allows free members to "keep playing",and thats why it is a gift and privilege to be on the site.

My best friend on GK passed away recently and he was a paying member.But trust me,if he was a free member and started to do any complaining at all,I would have told him the same things I wrote in my post above!And I would NOT have "spoke up" for him and in his defense as a paying member(me) for things like bringing back a feature that "once" existed for free members and is not now,or anything else not given to him,or taken away.Infact,i'm a bit surprised that the blitz site is within reach of free members.If I was on the GK staff,I would take that feature away as well!This is my opinion.

Once I wrote back and forth to a free member on GK a while back and ask him to see if he could atleast try this site for one year and pay the $39.99 a year or by the month.I said that the features are better,the lack of ad banners speed things up a bit and its for a good cause.
He said,basically that while he enjoyed chess,he didn't think it was "worth" 40 dollars a year even though he made a six figure salary and could easily afford to pay 40 dollars a year!
I said,well then,you don't take your chess too seriously or this great site too seriously,so don't complain about the slightest thing and be happy your even allowed to be on the site!There are other sites for free,just go to them please and don't look back!

Did he leave?No.Luckily,however,I eventually convinced him to become a paying member and he thanked me for it.He said that he can't believe how much better the site is now with his small yearly investment.Even his rating has gone up considerably.

TA

pasha582
28-Dec-12, 17:21

Conditional Moves

The conditional moves are great. I don't understand what the problem is--so what if your opponent figures if you do X she will respond with Y?

You still get your three days (or whatever) for your next move. Kudos to GameKnot for the conditional move option. Other sites I use only permit two or three conditions, and limit the the number of moves. GameKnot's conditional moves are easy to implement and work great. Really love this feature--even though I don't use it all that often. When a response is obvious (piece exchange, checkmate, etc.) why not? I also condition moves I figure my opponent is unlikely to make, but provide opportunities for forced mate.

I'll have to search through the forum to find out why anyone would object to the conditional moves. That just seems so crazy--there is no rational objection to it.

tactical_abyss
28-Dec-12, 18:10

pasha582,
Well,the conditional move like and dislike is a bit off topic in this thread(since this was about primarily team messaging options),even though GK mentioned it,so I will just say a little on the subject.Its here to stay period!And its not going to change on an individual blocking basis either.So you might as well get use to it and anyone complaining will not change anything.I believe that years ago GK had about a 10 conditional move limit,now its alot more.How much more,I do not know.But I have plugged in like 18 conditional moves once in a Ruy Lopez opening and all 18 were accepted!And the game proceeded nicely and timely.Next time,if I can,I will plug in 40 conditional moves!Maybe 50!

If I know that conditional moves "bother"someone,I will definitely INCREASE conditional move usage,every move if possible,even in "non obvious"moves.Hopefully they will be bothered so much by it,they will blunder!Thanks for the points!!!!

See,players that do not like conditional moves dislike it for many reasons,but its mostly psychological,without true good reasonings.Sometimes they want to be the last to move for the day and find that in order to be "last"with "your"clock moving,then they have to take the time to move 2 or 3 more times and they dislike that.Other reasons are more psychological...they feel that they are playing a "robot",not a human because the GK conditional move response is like a programed generated response line to them,even though a "human"plugged in that info.Other reasons are even deeper psychologically....and that is that with a conditional move string,its like their opponent is somewhat "superior"to them,having already figured out their move plan(even hidden non obvious plans)when they worked for a few hours on a particular move sequence and when they hit that submit button,all of a sudden their is that nasty(ha ha) conditional move response telling them that....."you don't fool me,I already figured you out and I see right through you!"These players do not realize that their opponent is many times also "thinking"on the opponents clock time that is running down and are prepared ahead of time when they submit "their"moves.
There are about a dozen other reasons of dislike as well,but i'm not going to go through them in this string.

I once played an English as white and made 15 conditional moves from the opening.(this was on another chess site).I never made my 16th move,for the opponent resigned by move 15.So technically I never really played the game by some players opinion who dislike conditional moves...but,of course,this is not true.I wish most of my games were that easy!

TA

claukonen
28-Dec-12, 18:11

Conditiional Moves

Again, just an option is needed so us few who do not like them, can prohibit conditional moves to be made against us. So simple....

In one my games currently I have a checkmate in one move. I have not made a conditional move. I respect my opponent, allowing him to make his next move. And, I WILL then respond the NEXT time I log on to Gameknot and make my move.

Conditional moves to me... I can comment more, but will not..

Regards, Chris..

tactical_abyss
28-Dec-12, 18:40

Claukonen,
I disagree with you.Their is absolutly NO level of disrespect,even on a subatomic level if checkmate is accomplished with 1 conditional move or 40 conditional moves.You are entitled to your opinion,of course,but so am I.Shall we take a vote and see how many thousands agree with me and very few agree with you?Your wish will never come about claukonen,so like I said above,you might as well get used to it,and if not,well....find yourself a chess site that dosen't allow conditional moves.Is there one?I haven't heard of one,let me know!If it exists,its probably a highly inferior site.Corresp is not OTB and there is no comparison when it comes to that option that has been around for over a thousand years,when Greek runners went back and forth between their Kings to relay moves(with conditionals) or when the USCF had conditional moves since I have been a member for over 40 years.You can find conditional moves in relay games that have existed for hundreds and thousands of years and were cherished and rarely declined by either players for obvious reasons including a mating sequence.

So,never play me claukonen,for if i can find a mate in 30 against you,I will send you all 30 conditionals without any disrespect(for it does not exist)and wait for your resignation or you will be mated.All is fair,just and not disrespectful in chess corresp,especially in conditional moves,as long as the rules are followed.Blocking conditionals?Well,then that can be(by your logic)a form of disrespect if your NOT ALLOWING your opponent to use the conditionals that HE WANTS TO USE and now cannot,because you blocked him.Are you willing to admit with your "logic"that this is "fair"to your opponent to NOT be able to use a feature that he wants to use according to the rules like everyone else and you are not allowing him to use the function?

This is why,your wish will never come about claukonen!

Regards and have a Happy New Year!
TA

claukonen
28-Dec-12, 18:48

Conditional Moves

Again, I respect my opponent and will do the correct thing and will as physically as possible make my move, AFTER he makes his... Not a concealed, hidden move, done BEFORE my opponent has a chance to make his move...

Plain and simple... Do I need to state more?

Chris..

pasha582
28-Dec-12, 23:08

If there is a one move checkmate against you, the respectful thing to do is resign. Assume your opponent sees it too, and do the honorable thing. I see nothing "respectful" about forcing your opponent to administer the coup de grace of actually making the checkmate move, so a conditional checkmate seems to me the more respectful thing. It is like the difference between using a sniper rifle to kill an enemy (conditional move) or using a knife to do the job up close a personal where you can smell blood oozing from the mortal wound.

pasha582
28-Dec-12, 23:18

Conditional Moves

I have played almost 140 games here, and have lost about 46 times. Of those 46, I have been checkmated fewer than half a dozen times. If there is even a remote chance I can pull off a victory, I keep playing. But the respectful thing to do is to resign with grace and dignity if one's position has become utterly hopeless, and you know you can't even finagle a draw. I have drawn many more games than I've been checkmated. So setting conditional checkmates--there is nothing remotely disrespectful in doing that.

pasha582
28-Dec-12, 23:29

Team Messages

What is so special about "clubs" it deserves a spot on the top line? It should swap places with forums, if GK wants to encourage use of the forums. And if I use the "id" tag in a message, then anyone I ID ought to get a message notification when the message posts.

Finally, there ought to be a fast shortcut to the forum bearing my team name. Maybe it is enough to click the message notification. That looks halfway cool.

I can see why GK wants team messages publicly accessible. But the forums are WAY too hard to reach, buried in the pull down menu instead of up on top where they belong.

pasha582
28-Dec-12, 23:40

conditional Moves

Thank you, tactical-abyss, for pointing out the disadvantages of the conditional moves. You play on your opponent's time. And, I thought of another one--you lose an opportunity to offer a draw, which you can only do on your turn. However, if the scenario you're in has been mapped by your opponent, the draw issue seems moot.

The way to break out of the condition is to make a move your opponent has not foreseen. Then you can play back on your own time, or set up your own conditions to use his time. How did they play in India in the 14th century? I doubt they took three days to make a move, and they had no one prohibiting illegal moves. If you could put both our bishops on the same color without your opponent noticing, you could finish out that way. Electronic chess is not identical to over the board play. The issue of respect... We don't have John McEnroe beating his tennis racket against the court and cursing his head off here.

claukonen
31-Dec-12, 18:37

Conditional moves

Again Gameknot does not respond to fix a big problem...

Gameknot is broken...

Chris..

tactical_abyss
31-Dec-12, 18:50

claukonen,
Yea,yea,GK is broken,just like most if not all the other chess sites on the internet.Yes,conditional moves are a big problem and need to be fixed and blocked as soon as possible!And thousands of players(most on GK)must agree with you claukonen or they are wrong,just like me that do NOT want conditional moves blocked or taken away.And if i want to send you some conditional moves,now i won't be able to,even though others will be able to.Thats fair,right????Hmmmmmm.

We all have alot to learn from you claukonen!Please teach me!

TA

sad_but_true
31-Dec-12, 19:00

My 2 cents

Dude u've really just got to let stuff go, move on & make the best of of it hey. I mightn't be in contact with my whole team but by using the forum I'm actually developing stronger bonds with the guys that want to use it. As for Conditional moves, mate its really not that big deal. once again I'm not a real fan of it but if sum guy can predict my next 5-6 moves, so be it. generally if someone sets up conditionals against me, I'll look for an alternate path, something that he hasn't focused on. turn it around to Ur advantage. Sometimes u can, Sometimes u cant

Sorry to say mate but U bring such a negative persona to the table. Try accepting it & running with it instead of belting Ur head against a brick wall.

claukonen
31-Dec-12, 19:01

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 31-Dec-12, 19:28.

sad_but_true
31-Dec-12, 19:17

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 31-Dec-12, 19:28.

Gameknot.com
31-Dec-12, 19:28

It appears this message thread has outlived its original purpose and veered quite a bit off-topic. There isn't a lot to be gained from beating a dead horse either, so this message thread has now been closed for new posts.

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