GameKnot: GameKnot related, Interesting Ladder Dynamics

GameKnot related: Interesting Ladder Dynamics

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lighttotheright
05-Jul-09, 13:47

Interesting Ladder Dynamics

It's impossible to remain at #1 position for long. #2 wins a game and you automatically lose your number 1 position.

My won game did not count for anything because it was won before algol won his. algol is now number 1...all hail algol!

markb56
05-Jul-09, 14:26

LotR: Don't worry too much. I'll see if I can't get you back to being #1

lighttotheright
05-Jul-09, 16:34

I already won it back and I plan to keep it for a while on a rotating basis.

algol
05-Jul-09, 17:40

King for a few minutes

Yes, I was hoping to have the topspot for a day... but very quick response by lighttotheright, well done!

baronderkilt
11-Jul-09, 19:52

I think

maybe I go up more on days I don't move ?!!
What's the winning strategy guys? (If you are giving away any secrets, I won't tell !

algol
11-Jul-09, 22:07

Strategy

I don't really know, I happened to come in when only lighttotheright was there. He should change his nick to righttothetop

I would think: It you are in the process of climbing, pick fast moving opponents (the players characteristic "Average time per move" in the hovering tool-tip comes in handy here) as far above you as allowed and win. Watch the game positions and try to be ready for the challenge when a suitable opponent comes below 5 games. But do not pick too many games, these may pull you down later when you have gone up above that position. The trick is of course that you need to win...

Have a look at the ladder history of some of the quick risers.

On the top of the slow ladder nothing much was happening when I last checked, we are just trying to keep our balance I suppose...

baronderkilt
11-Jul-09, 22:36

Ah Great~!

Thanks algol ... that seems to be pretty much what I've been trying to do too. Well, except the WIN part. So far that is going good I guess, but am not exactly in high quantity. I added a twist of taking a game with a fast moving Master and Expert level players, hoping they will gain well, but then that does not count for much if I don't win the games, with black yet. But my other thought was to try to keep my game honest and get a couple games who will be sure to punish me if I get to be too trappy. Wouldnt do to turn into an otb player all over again!~
Thx for the input.
Congrats to you and lighttotheright also, on reaching King of the mountain.

lighttotheright
14-Jul-09, 21:10

Thanks Craig,

I'm absolutely positive that I will be dethroned eventually But I guess I should not be so negative. I can always get it back unless I lose to someone far beneath me. Oh the royal pain of it all! It's best enjoy it while it lasts.

lighttotheright
14-Jul-09, 21:22

Deleted by lighttotheright on 14-Jul-09, 21:23.

lighttotheright
14-Jul-09, 21:28

What happens when you play someone on the ladder and they exit the ladder before the game is finished? If they are no longer on the ladder, then there is no longer a position gauge a rise to or from. A draw game should be no problem - you simple don't rise. But what happens when you win?

Maybe you rise by one anyway. But if they were much higher than you before they left, did you get short changed? or what.

Maybe the same thing that has been happening to me @ the #1 spot will occur. The win doesn't count. Boo hoo!! Now I don't feel so bad.

coopershawk
14-Jul-09, 22:16

Another interesting dynamic

I signed up on the slow ladder early, so I started out at #30 and challenged 5 people above me
on the ladder. Some with higher ratings, some with lower.

If I had thought about it more carefully, all of my challenges would have been against players
with much higher ratings. Because though I may win the games against the lower rated
players, and move up temporarily; I doubt very much that in the long term I will climb the
ladder above 30.

But in the long term, I think things will work out in a good way. There are many players below
me with significantly higher ratings than me. I am hoping that they will challenge me as I
finish each game; this should mean that I have some excellent opportunities to play against
very highly rated players. I would expect these will be players who joined the ladder later and
are looking for an easy win to make a big jump. I may not win any of those games, but I will
do my best to play a good solid game, and the experience should be instructive for me.

baronderkilt
15-Jul-09, 10:32

The really interesing dynamic for me ....

was that it got someone playing that is really not happy with their game and knows they don't play like 20 years ago or even 10. But to say, what the heck and try something I'd always enjoyed much at the club. I expect to lose many games that will give me a real Chess cramp for a day or two. (But if Velimirovic & Spassky can take it, I can too. yeah? Or maybe not But there you go, its that kind of game. And so far I am keeping to my self promise to keep it relatively otb style and free of too many retreats to the cave for days of thought & books, or 10 hours on some really interesting position. (Even joined the fast ladder only.) With the concession of taking PP if not feeling up to a decent look. Or well, maybe if a nice combination looms. Or ... oh no, it looks like I may go postal again soon and never finish anything }8-)

Oh well, whatever I got into it now. And hope to keep climbing losses to under a hundred Elo loss. What will be will be.

markb56
16-Jul-09, 05:25

Another interesting dynamic

I predict that cheeky_knight (nee gothicgirl) will soon reach #1 due to rule #3 which says:

"3. If the winning player has the higher position, they [sic] are moved one position up and the losing player is moved one position down."

Currently cheeky_knight is playing 16 ladder games against mostly 1400 rated players. Since she's at the #5 ladder position, all she needs to do is win two-thirds of her games to reach #1.

baronderkilt
16-Jul-09, 05:30

Or ...

will others manage to pull out a win of their own right at the critical moment~?!
All the tension, the drama ~ !

lighttotheright
16-Jul-09, 06:15

The ladder definitely favors those who play lots of games. In order to play more games than others on the ladder, you have to defend with Black. That means there is a biased toward those who are better defenders and by inference higher rated. But the story does not end there! You have to be able to handle large numbers of games at the same time. So there is a bias toward those with premium memberships. But not everyone with a premium membership can sustain good play over so many games and over an extended period of time. So there is a bias toward those who have been premium members for a while and are not overstressed with 'burnout'.

But once you get to number one, all those extra won games don't count. So no single person will be able to maintain #1 position for long. So once you are within the top 2 or 3, there no sense in challenging the status on the guy in the #1 spot -- so says the 'King of the mountain'!! It's almost an exercise in futility. I won't let you keep number one for long, unless I drop significantly.

tag1153
16-Jul-09, 16:30

fwiw

Here is my 2 cents worth - I'm sick of the ladder already, even though I've spent half of its existence at the top spot on the fast ladder. Why? I figured it out from the beginning, and was LUCKY enough to sign up very early. My strategy has been to set the lowest parameter (5 games), then LOAD UP on weaker players. Since the purpose of the ladder is to hit #1, think about this - when I'm #1 wins don't do a thing for me. Everyone would love to get at least a draw out of me to move up. I have approx 10 games on the verge of being won by me, yet I slow play them until I need a win (when I'm 2 or 3). I've received NUMEROUS messages wanting to know how a mediocre player like myself can continually be ranked above master level players. For those who don't know, ratings mean SQUAT in this early existence of the ladder. Eventually, yes, the stronger players will rise to the top. Until that happens, I have been happy to cede draws, then immediately re-challenge that same player (who has moved up). I can offer draws to all of my ladder games (about 25) and I bet 22 will accept. I'm the fly in the ointment, the monkey in the wrench. Think about it. I have just been enjoying my 15 minutes. But I'm tired of it, as it has dropped my rating (I never said I BEAT all those lower rateds), and practically all of my existing games are being played with the black pieces! Attaining the top spot is a challenge, but keeping it is downright boring. I'll hang around for another couple of weeks and complete my games, then I'm probably gonna drop out and play WHITE games for a while! I will not seek, nor will I accept, my party's nomination for King of the Hill any further

Thomas

lighttotheright
16-Jul-09, 18:39

Tag sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

You weren't supposed to tell them that.

It is easy to stay near the top by playing lower rated people. Being much higher rated than you, I don't have to worry as much about losing a game to one of them. But as the higher rated people rise toward the top, it will be increasingly difficult to find the easy mark.

Me, I'm not delaying any game. I'm just winning when I can. By playing the lower rated, they get experience; I get an abnormally long winning streak with no additional points. However, I do get the opportunity to find some really interesting mating combinations. One was in the middle of the board without the help from my Queen or rook - bishops and knights only.

I'm contributing to the process by helping the higher rated people rise by not playing them. By playing them instead, I can delay their rise if I delay my moves --unless they play the weaker players as well.

I'm not devious enough to deliberately delay my games. That would be boring. So I just play. Don't delay, just play.

algol
16-Jul-09, 19:58

New queen of the ladder

is cheeky_knight as markb56 predicted. Congratulations cheeky_knight (gothic_girl)!

tag1153
16-Jul-09, 21:29

Deleted by tag1153 on 16-Jul-09, 21:31.

tag1153
16-Jul-09, 21:39

Deleted by tag1153 on 16-Jul-09, 21:39.

baronderkilt
16-Jul-09, 23:08

On the Fast Ladder . . .

#279. +977 yucevarlik (1420) 17 14

Now that is what you can really call dynamic MOVING UP the ladder ~!!

lighttotheright
18-Jul-09, 14:46

I'm waiting for algol and cheeky_knight to waste some of the wins before I move in for the kill.

chrisobee
19-Jul-09, 14:45

...............

Does it really matter that much !??

shema_yisrael
19-Jul-09, 16:52

You are all doomed...

I have gained 23 points this month, without completing my first game. Perhaps I will continue
to play these games and not finish any, simply letting my momentum carry me to the top.
Bwah, hah, hah!

markb56
29-Jul-09, 10:24

I'm back to #3

Sorry lighttotheright, but the number 3 spot belongs to me. You need to work on getting back to #1 (not at my expense of course .

algol
29-Jul-09, 15:46

Sitting duck

Hey Mark, well done! I'm leaving on vacation (temporarily back due to canceled flights), may be you want to be the house sitter in number 2? Have a fun summertime.

algol
29-Jul-09, 20:33

...

I see I play better when I am on vacation as cheeky_knight traded places with me. Too bad I am not here to enjoy the temporary top spot...

baronderkilt
29-Jul-09, 22:35

Aha~!

Algol ... Congratulations~!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
BUT ... It has not escaped me that You Can still type and breathe~! So Why No Move !?
* * * * * * *
Oh wait, you are not here. Okay then; despite knowing my position is free of weakness and bursting with potential; just out of kindness [ and because you are not here, so I can bother you until you send a move ], I will go ahead & offer a Draw . . .
"You're Welcome" ... }8-D

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