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baronderkilt 24-Nov-10, 20:14 |
 Will GK Make Us CHEAT ?! What To DO ? *** Suppose youre a GK player with Fischer-like dedication to a few opening selections, and play many games. Example; you Always play a standard Lopez line with white and have 20 Ruys ongoing. You just finish one you lost, but 15 of them are still before move 12. You order your GK Computer Analysis for the game you lost. **** Low and behold, GK tells you that a move you used on move 17 is a blatant error, not quite blunder, and gives you a "best line". You fully intended to play the move you always make on 17, the terrible move. But now you have the chance to change 15 of your Ruys to the GK suggestion instead. YOU have received Computer Assistance for Ongoing Games~! *** Your comments Please. And what to do ?> Can you then Never LOOK at the computer analysis or have to Stop Playing the Ruy before looking, tho you Always play the Ruy ??! Or always avoid the Suggested Best Line in started games, but use it in future Ruys? BUT even then ... if you avoid the Best Line ... you would Still want to change the BAD MOVE and maybe play the Next Best Line you find? Yet Even then you had Computer TELL YOU it was BAD ... must you play on and Make the BAD MOVE 17 in your 15 ongoing Ruys? But what if you Had discovered it inferior on your Own? Has GK put you in a position where you must play the BAD, honor bound to it? \ Shall you simply never Order the Computer Analysis then? ... Which puts you in a position of other players having an advantage that You do Not? }8-O ... aieeee GK~! |
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I wouldn't call it cheating... |
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baronderkilt 25-Nov-10, 02:53 |
Well it And its a bit tricky that the Best Lines sometimes suffer from a horizon effect that can make Best a debatable quantity. I only say "cheating" as a catch phrase headline, really. Yet it does seem like a very gray area. And I am wondering what GK would say to it ... and what all of you think about it. This really has been a problem area for a long time, when we play corr chess ... yet in the course of the game, it might last a couple months, so might see many games we learn from that we play during an otb tournament, at the club, or while practicing at home vs a computer. And this has always been unclear. The only difference being that GK has given this analysis to us. So I am wondering also what the answer is about those games from others sources & about the ones from GK computer, and if there is or should be any difference in how we consider them. However THAT may turn out to be ... which is all still completely unclear to Me. I guess in my years of Postal I probably Would have used what i learned from my otb during a game, since I did not avoid playing my postal openings in otb. Indeed would pull them out of the hat for important tournament games. And it must be only a quirk that my situation always brought postal knowlege to otb games, and didnt happen to learn anything from otb to bring to corr play in progress. (Tho I did get a nifty improvement for WT in the French Advance Var once from a NM, GK player Drexel ... I never actually got to play the thing in Postal since I dont play the Advance. I suppose I would have used it, if I Did ) }8-) |
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baronderkilt 25-Nov-10, 02:59 |
BTW ... |
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garos 29-Nov-10, 16:40 |
Database and Analysis conjunction with computer analysis and the spirit of the game. I have been consulting the database for a current game and have discovered that when the (Gameknot) database is pruned down to individual games you are able to access that game through a player's Past Game History, and then send the game for computer analysis. This means that if, from a certain position, you are undecided about which way to go with the game and three players have made one particular move and another has selected an alternative, you can have the single game analysed to see if that particular move was really okay. If it happens to be an inaccuracy, a mistake or even a blunder the analysis will tell you and give you the best move. It is one thing to be able to analyse a completed game, but this allows a player to analyse a current game from a certain position and be guided by the results. It is a totally different concept to using the database, which tells you what moves were popular, but not whether that particular move happened to be the best one. Perhaps a solution would be to allow players to only analyse their own games. It also places basic subscribers at a greater disadvantage as they are limited to 8 moves in the database, before many of the single continuations become available. What do others think? |
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Database and Analysis |
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Interesting question, Craig... Think correspondence games. You have played your pet Ruy Lopez line in your 16 games and then an analysis gets published in 'Chess Life and Review', to which you pay your annual subscription - is that mag still going?? That analysis once and for all refutes your favourite 17th move. You go through the analysis (in exactly the same way you go through the engine's analysis) and, yep: dun and dusted; your 17th is busted. What's the difference? Even in OTB play much the same sort of thing will happen except that the 15 outstanding games lie in potentia: they have not yet begun. In Riound 1 of a 17-round (18-player round robin) your opponent (unbeknownst to you) had seen the article first, played the refution, you go down, he mentions the source of his success. Quick, quick: read up the article before your next game with the White pieces! Your conduct of those games will be influenced by the CL&R article, or whatever medium carries current theory. The difference here is merely in the timing. You play what you know, and maybe sometimes what you know gets added to during the course of a game - the more likely if the game takes a long time to play. Cheers, Ion |
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Interesting topic This very thing seems to fall right in the middle of these two things and I am still questioning myself if I should do this to 'improve my play' or just stick to the good old brain |
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correspondence chess, not over the board. You can't be expected to stop analyzing and learning from past games just because ongoing games may be similar when those ongoing games are not being played in real time. While I obviously (from my rating) don't have the skill to follow my own advice, it is in your opponents best interest to get you out of the lines you know well. |
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