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shlam16 15-Jul-11, 01:46 |
 people taking the full amount of time per move to delay lost gamesi am STILL playing said game against mwenyasoft, he is 3 moves away from a forced checkmate, which my conditional moves will take care of, but i thought i would bring it up incase anyone who has any power on this site is looking.. perhaps there should be a feature on this site whereby situations such as the one i have outlined can be declared wins, much like the masters of old would announce "mate in .. moves" .. this site has powerful chess engines, whats to stop there being a function (the same as that for creating chess puzzles) whereby you can show the system that there is nothing for the opponent to do to avoid mate, therefore have the game declared as won.. i know this will likely be unnoticed, and even if it is, nothing will be done about it, but it still helped to have a rant.. |
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I've seen some players do similar thing to me. It's not really a problem unless the game parameters are set for too long. Conditional moves do help manage these situations. Be patient. Usually somebody that abuses time parameters like that are very close to timing out in some of their games. Regardless, everyone is allowed by the rules to use up as much time available on the clock. If they want to wait until the last hour to make their moves, then they are allowed to do it. If it really bother you that much, then become a paying member so that you can play more games. More games should keep you busy. |
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shlam16 15-Jul-11, 03:21 |
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You know you won that game! Take your break and check back in 2 weeks or so. It's indeed annoying and not polite to stretch lost games forever but it happens all of us. The only thing you can do is setting up conditional moves and put him on your ignore list. A reason for such misbehavior can be that he is in a winning streak, or almost at 6 month high, or all time high, ... |
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shlam16 15-Jul-11, 04:24 |
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Wisdom,patience and some humor on this subject: I agree with you on your gripe and hear you!But take it from a well seasoned corresp player,there are different ways to look at things.First of all,its not wise to mention your opponents name in the forums,just say,"one of my current opponents".I've seen things happen in various forums on many chess sites,that even if your correct,arguments can initiate,strings can be dissolved and even both players can have their message or forum privileges suspended. Just have what the seasoned corresp players have:Extreme patience! Your opponent for example,may also disagree with you stating that he his simply following the rule guidelines,likes to take his time analyzing even a lost position and dosen't like his name being spread around in the forums.Plus,does your opponent truly know it IS a lost position?Does he have in front of him those 3 conditional moves?Those conditional moves are not shown to him are they?Players taking vacations/T.O.'s and other things like you mention,happen all the time,even to me.I had a player beg me to play the white stating that it was only fair that he play the white since I beat him playing the white months ago.I said "ok",as long as he decides to move fast since I am squeezing him in on my game limit and want to finish my present games fairly quickly like the other players are.Well,he made his first 3 moves very fast(opening moves)then suddenly decided to take a big vacation/T.O. right after the 3 moves where I cannot cancel the game!Thats his given right to do so,but you get the point! But putting that aside for the time being,if the game is "over" through conditional moves then great!Don't even bother looking at it again.Here's how to think about your situation: "Well,I have that game in the bag and my opponent will lose.Let him take ALL the time he wants!"He can run,but he can't hide!!Just laugh at him!Its pie on his face,not yours,right? And simply do not play him again,if possible! Not long ago,I had a player in a conditional move mating net of 12!!!!!!I checked it several times to make sure.I even messaged him and brashly told him...."mate in 12!"He really slowed down then!I said,take all the time you want!Take 2 months if you like,use up all your vacation and TO's!But it is still mate in 12 max!Then,I never did check back with the game until I observed my message light blinking a few weeks later.I knew what that message was even before I opened it."Game over,checkmate".My opponent did not resign,but wanted to play the mate through for a "learning"experience.Well,good!See?So have patience,shalam! GK will never have a declared win,even on a conditional move string in a definite mate simply due to the fact that it is a players right to examine the mate in his own way(if he even really knows its a mate,not because someone told him)or because he wants to play other games and put yours on the back burner.Your point win will come either way,shalam! And always remember,you can cancel a players T.O. when that option appears above the gameboard. Well,enough of my ramblings! Good chess to all and please have patience against the "stallers"!! Look at it in a humorous way!Envision a turkey running from you in an open field with no where for the turkey to hide.Your sitting there comfortably with your long powered 460 weatherby rifle with a long range laser site on it.Let the turkey run for as long as it wants away from you,let him run in circles,let him eat some grain,let him sleep,let him mate with other turkeys.Then you say to yourself or shout to the turkey....."are you done yet"?Then raise your rifle and shoot!Game over....mate!!! TA |
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Shalm16 I do however have an annoying habit of playing games to the end ! win ;lose or draw does not matter to me , it all depends on what my opponent plays like and i do tend to learn from my defeats |
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yanm 16-Jul-11, 04:42 |
Well it's psychological warfare And for time to time it works out well for them. I indeed recently hanged a queen against such opponent in an otherwise totally won solution. I was so disgusted that I resigned directly even if there was some drawing chances. In the end, we should learn patience and do with it... |
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Many players do not do this,which is a mistake!That is if you want to possibly gain an edge on a player.If he was beaten in 10 Sicilian games and won 2 Ruy Lopez games playing the same color in his most recent game history,guess what i'm going to play?It certainly would not be a Ruy!Dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one!But in themematic tourneys and more,sometimes you don't have freedom of choice!I do however! Best, TA |
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TA, I have played in two tournaments here and done so so , @ the time it was to play higher rated players than myself to test my rating. But i had pc problems and timed out !?!!? But you are right all my problems seem to happen in tournaments , i.e postponements , wonder how bad it would be if we were playing for prizes,some players wont lose graciously regards Neil |
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TA |
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gameknot.com |
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Fear selfishly make people wait long periods of time. But of course when they have the better game there blue light is blazing!!!....odd |
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Tactical_abyss... There are times in which I will have had the appearance of stalling this or that game, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles, if I happen to have a game with a few hours left to play when I take a much-needed break from GK. I try to avoid these situations, but now and then.... But I never make a move during a vacation, even if I do log on from time to time. That is usually just to find out what moves have been played on other games, check out messages and/orlook at forums. In such cases I might be online for less than a minute or two. We all have our codes of conduct. In the case of shlam16: the conditionals will take care of it. If the opponent is like me, he may play it out 'for the record', but he might just resign. If the game has only 3 moves to play and its a 3-day time control, then within a week you'll have your result. Give or take a vacation... |
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If you reread my 12 move conditional sentence above and the sentence that follows,it states that "my opponent did not resign,but wanted to play the mate through for a learning experience"."well good!" "have patience Shalam!"Unquote. So I am actually telling Shalam that is a "good" and fine thing that my opponent took as long as he wanted in those 12 moves and by analogy he should think the same way with patience and understanding!But prealerting the opponent of a mate in 12,a mate in 6 or what have you,is also a good thing.It may just possibly speed up the game,or slow it down...it depends upon the opponent.My experience has shown however,that they will slow down a bit in the beginning to check the mate string out,and then many,many times resign a move or two before actual mate.Its a psychological thing!Why?bBcause it looks better and makes them feel better on the GK past game record that they resigned early and lost and was not mated!So many opponents hate to be mated in corresp.Infact I think I had only one opponent actually let themselves get mated in all the games I have played here since I joined GK....and that was an unrated game! So basically my overall message to Shalam was to have patience,plug in alot of conditional moves when possible ect ect.Yes,there are many reasons for a player slowing down and they are not all stalling reasons...some are legit but then some are actually intentional stalls.But whatever they are,it dosen't really matter,as long as the rules are being followed,and really how could the rules not be followed when you think about it? TA |
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baronderkilt 18-Jul-11, 17:26 |
IMO, non-professional as it is; There could be ... Personally I feel it is incorrect to place too much Identity into any type of Game. But that is me. If/when it is ones' main passion & perhaps enjoyable distraction as well, I can see some value in a heavier Ego stake. I think it is probably an indirect path: 'I Win/Don't Lose Chess games, therefore I am "A Winner" (in general); "Intelligent" (perhaps toss in Hard Working, for some), therefore, I am a successful & worthwhile (or Superior) person". And "It makes me feel GOOD too, to:" 'Crush their Ego!' (Fischer) or "Kaaarrrrrrrrrussshhhh" them! (A Polgar sister, and I've probably spelled it wrong!? LOL) 'Win a Prize/Cash~!' (Me~! You !?) 'Reap the fruits of time and preparation' 'be a Winner' 'Beat him like GHOTI, my arch-rival~! ... my Boss!! ... that 10 year old, whew! ( close call? Been there, done That. Also made several happy, ego bolstered pre-teen/barely-teen s. But it is good to spread some Joy, especially to the young ! ) I read Krogius on the Psychology of Chess, but it deals largely with why mistakes are made on the board. So Where does this all come from ??! Is it "OK" to be basely opinionated ?! Am i cruising for an Ego hit ? Posted for your reading pleasure, in good humour & semi-sincerity . . . Baron (I like to be called Baron, it is a positive-stroke based upon self perception of the imaginary possibility of an association with royalty, a demographic generally, tho probably falsely, associated with superiority. But hey, I'll take that 'imaginary-little-win' and run with it today! Gather Joy where we find it . . . }8-D LOL PS// Remember; "Keep laughing, and the World will laugh with you, or at least wonder what you're up to" ... & "Kaaarrrrrrussshhh" someone today; politely, wearing a smile. |
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Now on the lower rating levels,it would be very possible for an opponent to have kept on playing where my master opponents blundered,but on the higher level,it is an unwritten understanding that it would basically be a hopeless situation to play on,so they resign. Take a look!  game game 17 moves in the first game and a major blunder and only 22 moves and a major blunder in the second game.All of these blunders by masters!So sometimes playing on in lost positions can reverse and your winning opponent just "might"blunder like my opponents,and lose anyway! |
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still...... move in positions where they are a little better(the blazing blue light).There is much hesitation. stretching into many days. It takes me the same amount of time to make a offensive move as it does a defensive one. Its almost as if they take the 'not so good position' and put it in a closet for as long as possible. The argument that there busy is is proven false by there undivided attention and (apparently) vast amounts of time) when they stand better. I have no problem with playing the game out to the bitter end. I just would rather finnish the game in a few months not YEARS. |
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Consider all of us lucky that chess is not like billiards,where the game must be played on to the end for the winner.....like 8 ball.In 8 ball you can have all your balls off the table and your opponent may not have sunk one ball,but does he quit?H.no!You still have to sink that 8 ball without scratching and usually without missing it(contacting it)with the cue ball or you lose. By analogy,chess "could"and is similar in certain ways.but be lucky the rules of chess do not make all of us play on to mate,just like that 8 ball game! |
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i guess so... moves in two hrs. Its so much more fun!!!...Janet |
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baronderkilt 18-Jul-11, 18:43 |
BG, There are those also ... While I may be in this general category of procrastination, my own use of more time in bad Chess positions is more a factor of wanting to consider every possible resource. Think abaout the game in odd moments available. Even "sleep on it" since many good ideas have come at waking time. Once in a dream, I was shouting NOT Qd3! repeatedly, telling me of danger from that move. The subconscious speaks if we listen; such as the move your "hand" hesitates to make, or "likes". Many times my "hand" has warned me of danger or blundering in a tournament or club game. Some times I have disbelieved and regretted that decision! Of Course this can only mean; I have played Way Too Much CHESS in My Life~!! lol Another part of my own use of more time when pressed by the opponent is simply that I find it nearly impossible to make myself post a move that I know loses, or is insufficient, is Bad ... and will use all my time looking for better. On the bright side, regarding game length, it is quite possible that I would Resign at that point. Or soon after if my best reply left a bit of chance for a saving error by the opponent. I "RESIGN" rather EASILY, but may devote a lot of effort into not reaching such positions. }8-) |
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I've already played a few 2 hour games on this site!All it takes is a courtesy agreement between 2 players to simply finish in 2 hours starting at an exact hour to the minute.It can and does work.But if one player goes over the 2 hour limit,they must also agree to resign the game,even if they are up a Queen and two Rooks and/or even if they are about to mate the other player in 1 move but they go over by 1 or two seconds!What you must do a few times during the game and near the endgame is simply ask your opponent exactly what time they have on their watch and at what time the "seconds"are at,just like the military does when they have synchronization of the watches with several soldiers.No,it will not be absolutely "perfect"timing like a chess clock...i'm sure there are delays with the net,ect,but it is close enough to play the game fairly accurately,plus it would rarely get down to 3 or 4 seconds of being that close to a flag drop in a corresp game.Try it sometime with someone,even unrated....what do you have to lose,no points right? In my case,the last one I played was rated however and we both agreed to a draw.I did lose,I think 3 points since the player was less rated than me,but it was fun either way! |
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thats a good idea!! or is it unfeasible?(in tourneys only) such a arrangement would make Tournaments a lot more fun. |
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ok help!! see ya one day in Washington Sq park!!...j |
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nathanman22 19-Jul-11, 20:11 |
Busy schedules are a logical reason |
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nathanman22 19-Jul-11, 20:18 |
Ungentlemanlike |
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well bully for you!!!! As well as wildlife photography. And Astrophotography at night But it STILL takes me only about 1-hour to make a move (bad position or not). Yes you have the right to take the full amount of time.That's why i now check my opponents 'time per move'. If its to slow i don't play them,or allow a challenge. I guess you and i will not be playing anytime soon!! |
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nathanman22 19-Jul-11, 21:21 |
Intention was not to brag about how busy I was. -Nathan |
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