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 I need some pointers in this game... game is a game I've just completed (I'm black). After the opening I was fairly pleased with my position as it seemed that black achieved just about what he wanted to get from the dutch. After the exchange on e4 and the subsequent tactics, I felt I must be better. Comp seems to agree. However, I had a hard time coming up with any sensible plan afterwards, and, well, it shows in my play. So, what would be a plan for black? The knight seems eternally stuck on b4 without much in the way of targets, a5 is a constant worry. My king feels somewhat exposed . E2 might be a potential target, but I don't see a good way of getting at it and I don't really see how I can improve my position, even if white just treads water. So what did I miss? Thanks for any pointers. |
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However, that exchange cannot really be prevented in any case if white insists, and according to Agaard, that a5/b6/Bb7/Na6-b4 setup is the way to go for black as a response to a4. According to Agaard (mind you, that book is from 2000, so theory may have progressed quite substantially since then), this entire b3-setup is considered relatively tame (GK database has white with 33% wins, 25% losses and 40% draws after b3) |
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11.a5 and then 11....Re8.At that juncture black equalizes fairly well,with,in my opinion only a minimal edge for white. But lets back up a bit.I'll show you how I would have played the black using my book from earlier in the game.....(well,first of all I would not be playing the Dutch,but thats a different issue),but if I "had"to play the Dutch,then I would still transpose.... 1.d4,e6 2.c4,Nf6(not f5 which my book shows a weaker move due to opening up blacks King diagonal) 3.g3,c5 4.d5,exd5 5.cxd5,b5 6.Nf3,d6 7.e4,a6 8.a4,b4 9.Bd3,Bh3 Note blacks pawn thrusts into whites Queen side. White has many variations from move #3,but the above case is just following what he has done and my book follows through on that. And this trans into a Queens Fianchetto defense with fair equality. |
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I may have phrased my question badly, but my problem here is actually not: "how did I end up here" but rather "what should I do in this position"? Specifically after the trades around 24 ... Kxf8. I feel my position can't be all that bad - but I can't think of what to do next. This doesn't happen very often; usually when you feel you have a decent position you can say what you like about it and then suggest ways of making further progress. Here, I draw a total blank - and I feel that this would be the sort of question I'd ask a chess coach: "After the trades around move 24 - regardless of specific lines (I'll prolly be able to come up with those myself) - what should I even be thinking here?" |
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My moves would be as follows from #24.... 24.Nxf8,Kxf8 25.Rd1,h6 26.Qd4,Qc6 27.Qd2,Ba6 28.Rc1,Qd6 From this position I can only see what I call the "dance of the Queens" to perpetually defend and support each others booty and blacks centralized pawns.In the position above after 28....Qd6 black does maintain a small edge based upon his better control of the center,but his King is more prone to attack,so the dance of the black Queen will be coming to his defense continually.On my level,I would be throwing in the draw towel by move #28 that i have suggested above....but thats better than the loss you had! |
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advantage black? Before the exchanges from move 20 its easy to foresee blacks having an advantage, because you'd know black would get two pieces vs a rook plus a pawn presence in the centre. Yet it becomes drawish for the reasons abyss stated. The advantage you had turned out to be phony, so you never squandered it. Don't beat yourself up |
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Do you know this nagging feeling that there's part of chess that you simply don't "get"? I wasn't really mad at myself, its more that as you improve, you realize that there is more than just tactics that cause you to remain a lowly 1800 player. Everyone knows that you should develop pieces, gain space, fight for the centre, create outposts etc. etc. But every once in a while you get a position where none of these general rules of thumb really help you identify a plan. That's when you can point to the position and say: "Here is a position that I simply fail to understand in a strategic sense. I don't 'get' this. How am I thinking wrongly about this?" And the hope is that by someone telling you how to approach this position, you learn something - not about *this* position, but about positions like this in general. |
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By the way,the computer analysis tool provided by GK is something you cannot really rely on for solid accuracy,as marmalite has mentioned.Actually I view the rating value of GK system around perhaps 2000-2100,but not much higher.There are much stronger and reliable analysis tools on the market,including opening books that far exceed GK's.But as a free tool to players,say,under 2200 in rating I suppose its ok. TA |
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So you see,potus,you and I can suggest better ways to move this and that and even much better opening lines for Frets game,but apparently he wants to find ONLY a better way to proceed from move #24...and thats it. But as to the #9 exchange being probably unavoidable....it IS avoidable IF black dosen't even use that line leading up to that position in the first place,so really the game should be reversed back even further.But,since thats not what Fret wants in this string,I will not suggest anything more.One thing I will say is that I never rely on GK opening books(never ever)and only use my own computer analysis tools in postgame,since there are better tools than GK's.You may see a GK analysis done on a game in my past game list,but thats from the other opponents or someone else.Again GK's opening books are ok and so is the post game computer analysis tool,but admittly,I will not mislead,there are much stronger tools on the market,but the best are not free! TA |
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any reason why this sounds surprisingly (and unnecessarily) aggressive? Surely the way to get better is not asking "what would your precise moves be in this or that position" but rather "how should I think about this type of position in order to be able to come up with the correct moves myself"? Now, you might hate the Dutch Stonewall for any number of reasons, but I don't see how it makes my question about a plan starting from the position around move 24 unreasonable. cheers, fret. |
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There is no aggressiveness by me,you misunderstand.But if you look closely above...I said,i'm not here to "coach",so then,i'm not here to tell you how to think!Nor do i think your question about the #24 position is unreasonable.You have my draw answer to you "reasonable"question above. Double "cheers", TA |
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Never "assume"that I "assume"that you are not aware of those other analysis tools out there.I'm sure you DO KNOW about the list you have above.But you apparently did not use them!For if you had(better opening books)you would have never ended up in that position you are asking for help in the first place.This is not being "agressive'to you but just giving you a fact. I'm out of here. |
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Take care fret,and have a nice weekend! Peace, TA |
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fret already knew his "present location"in that game position,so he wasen't really lost,he just wanted better directions!And I gave him better "driving details" from move(road?) #8 or so! GK analysis,while good and ok, has it limits,and I can usually go way beyond not only the GK book but its analysis level as well. TA |
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