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brigadecommander
19-Jul-12, 03:33
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 What?
I was looking forward to your thoughts, there.
Now there is but an awkward emptiness.
And perhaps that is fitting because Mr. Obama has been very awkward in his statements here. I suppose there might be some here that hail from many different regions or lands that may not fully appreciate the direction Obama foresees for the USA and how his remarks convey that message to voters.
I do not hesitate to disagree with him most vehemently. His comments reveal a very different path for Americans. We have never bought into the concept of a government that provides for us, manages us or is grander than ourselves. We are individuals that build our own lives and take responsibility for our failures and our successes. We appreciate each others victories, we collaborate when we can, and we compete on the playing field at full speed. Government, however, does not guide us, direct us or control us. We are not assembled because of government. Government is assembled because of us.
Our roads were built with taxes that were collected from hard working individuals and businesses. These roads were needed because cars were created to serve us and improve our lives. Government did not build the roads so we could build cars. And the money they used to build the roads was not self-gained or self earned. Obama has this irreconcilably backwards.
Americans once fled an obtrusive government. They wanted to be free. They wanted to control their own destinies and live or die trying to be the best they could be.
Americans are not of the mind frame that someone else built the businesses their families started and they now cling to in this horrific economy. Americans take risks and bear the costs when they fail. They understand loss. And pain. If someone else built their businesses I suppose someone else will pay off their loans. Pay back the banks for them. Or pay their mounting bills. No? How about their new-found health care penalties?
Mr. Obama regrets his comments. Not because he doesn't fully believe and embrace them and the ideology behind them; but because they are not American and Americans are not enamored with his gaffe. It will cost him in the short run. But the race is long....Romney will have to do much, much more than he is doing to make the gaffe stick and hurt Obama's chances in a world where things are not going the way we expect them to...
DoK
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respectivly Sir...BULL
Do you think i deleted this because i could/t rebut the post? Think again Sir. Every one(except perhaps those who buy this crap) knows Obamas comments were taken way out of context!!! All they have to do is read the false statement on the original post then google the speech and compare.They will see that only certain statements were left in and the point was left out!! oldest trick in the Fox news 'unfair and unbalanced' book!! HAAAAAAAAA its really quite funny. So i say to all who read this; listen to The Presidents speech (not the fox news edited one) and compare it to what these scoundrels are saying and compare!!! its easy!!! These people rely on you being dumbed down!!!! When a small business takes out a govt loan that's just what it is.Someone (the terrible big govt) gave him the loan!!! thus helping him.He got his schooling from teachers!! He worked hard!! We help each other, We all stand or fall together!! What the Far right is trying to do is edit what you hear!!! They will say the affordable health care act(they call it Obama care) will destroy the country. Again a careful review of who is behind the opposition shows the Insurance comp.Pharmacy group's etc! They are pouring millions into preventing you from 'understanding what the Bill does' For Gods sake look at it!! the insurance companies can't cancel your coverage when you get sick!! They have to offer insurance even if you are sick!!They can't raise your payments for no good reason. And much much more!! Of course these creeps don't want it!! they can't fleece us anymore!!! Follow the money!!! Then they say well 'we can't afford it'.They will make plenty of money with all the new people coming into the system.The act also stream lines health care so there is no waste!!! Remember them saying 'its death panels'. When in reality the system they are protecting 'is' death panels!!! if you get sick your dropped!!! if you have a pr-existing condition they will charge you too much and you can't afford it!!! no wonder they are fighting this!! And all this corruption slimes other industries also!! My great grand father was a republican,my Dad was a republican but The Republican party today is currupt from top to bottom.What happened to the old conservatives i don't know. Remember a few months ago when the House passed a bill stopping house members from engaging in insider trading? Making big bucks because they are in bed with wall street and get tipped off on info the rest of us don't here? Well it turns out after all the righteous strutting that they passed the bill that a hidden provision excluded 'family members from the Ban'. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. So they can have family members make there bets thus keeping there own hands clean!! When confronted with this 'Erick Cantor' said 'we didn't realize that provision was there and' 'we will get back to you'. Please America Wake up!!!! i could go on and on and on. Here is the affordable care act!! please read it all!!healthreform.kff.org
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UNEDITED OBAMA SPEECH
here is the Unedited speech By President Obama.;www.youtube.com
and here is the edited version from fox news;www.youtube.com
and here is the Elizabeth Warren speech that lets you see the truth;www.youtube.com
Do you see what these people on Fox do?? If you don't like The President then don't vote for him!! But do you trust people that go to such lenghts to decieve you? Judge for your self....
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deadofknight
i deleted that post. These arguments go no-where!!! Why are you posting in a deleted thread??? i am really curious.Are you taunting me to get a response?? if so why??? you got one OK!! are you that angry???. Are the other threads on Science and literature and poetry too boring?? You just want a fight?? please explain. I have a life!!! i don't want to spend hours upon hours responding to fox news talking points. The electorate will decide this. I just want to have friendly conversations with the clubs members.These political arguments are not friendly in the present poisonous atmosphere we have in this country.They lead to anger and strife!! So i ask again why post on a deleted thread??....your prospective friend Janet PS; LISTEN TO SOME MUSIC AND RELAX!!
www.youtube.com
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I strongly disagree with the direction the current administration is pushing my country and am willing to discuss it here but I won't ARGUE it here.
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what's to discuss? Cave ne ante ullas Catapultas ambules
you guys have your mind made up,as i have. It would not be a discussion. But a argument. No amount of proof, however convincing will change your minds. But if false or misleading statements are posted in this club i will bring to bear forceful and concise proof over and over and over again. I have access to (as we all do) to congressional voting records, CBO reports,a host of other Govt records available to Americans if they look them up. So far all i have seen is right wing talking points. They just don;t fly!!! So go right ahead. But get your facts strait or i will shred them.
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also
also the presidents isn't pushing this country any where. The Congress disposes the President proposes. Anything he has been able to do has been vetted by our Representatives in Congress by majorities. Have you forgotten the Constitution?.Most of what he has proposed has been tabled by the right-wing even if, like the Jobs bill would 'help' our country. Or has been filibustered in the Senate requiring a 60-vote majority!!! Like i said if you wish to discuss Constitutional Govt please get your facts strait!!! It is the Republicans in the House that are leading by obstructing.
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Like I said, I will not argue. Nor will I parse and squabble trying to create a 'gotcha' phrase or comment. We can share information or points of view respectfully but please don't try to talk at me or instruct me or try to belittle me. I will guarantee I'm more thoroughly read than 99.99% of the population and don't come to my point of view based upon transient perspectives or soundbite snippets.
I know you didn't achieve your level of chess by underestimating your opponents. Why then would you estimate a budding friend differently?
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i have not belittled you
you said you are not happy with the direction the President is taking the country.I corrected you because he can't take the country anywhere without the congress approving it!! Give me an example of what you are speaking of. The affordable care act passed congress with a majority. Any legislation he got through passed with a majority of congress which expresses the will of the people. Any thing he failed to get through has failed because Congress would not pass it or it got filibustered in the Senate!! Where do i have this wrong? If you have a beef with his legislation being passed your anger should be directed at your representatives in Congress. Sorry that i said you are using fox talking points. But show me with proofs what you mean. And where your information comes from please. Here is a example of where i get 'some' of my information. Its a official Govt site so i;m not cheating.It tells me what each member of congress votes on 'nay and yea'. You can click on many features to get different data. www.senate.gov
i will not use the phrase 'fox talking points' with you again but i will point out with proof where i think you are mistaken. I apologise Sir.
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bencox1
20-Jul-12, 07:38
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www.youtube.com
www.youtube.com
www.youtube.com
www.youtube.com
Here are some videos that you can watch.
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When I say, "I strongly disagree with the direction the current administration is pushing my country"
Your basic response is;
"i will point out with proof where i think you are mistaken." and "I corrected you because he can't take the country anywhere without the congress approving it!!" OK.....
So you're telling me that I'm mistaken in disagreeing with the direction the current administration is pushing my country because the congress is assisting in the push? How is this correcting me and showing proof that I'm mistaken?
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bencox1
20-Jul-12, 07:44
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www.youtube.com
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bencox1... the facts please? with no editing!!!
sorry but those are edited speeches with interpretations by partisans!! that i don't agree with. I wouldn't except such interpretations of edited speeches if Democrats did them. I deal in facts not someones interpretations. Give the full speech or policy you disagree with and we can discuss it. I have copies of all the legislation that The president has got passed. These are not interpretations but the real thing. Someones opinion is valid if they can back it up with facts.For instance if you have a beef with a part or all of the affordable care act tell me which part and why. Then we will read it and see if it says what you say it says or what someone is telling you it says!!! thus we arrive at the truth!! If you disagree with some other legislation tell me and we will study the Bill and see if it does what you say it does. Please Don't send me interpretive videos of speeches and use them as 'proof of what someone else said he said. I;m too smart for that Sir.. I put Obamas full speech in another post side by side with an edited one. There is clearly a difference. They left out things he said and edited it with there interpretations.
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Thumper
no i am saying that you are incorrect in 'saying' that the president is taking the country in the wrong direction!!!!!!!!!!. He does not have the power to take the country anywhere except into War FOR 90-DAYS WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL. Again tell me where he is supposedly taking the country!!! How is he doing this?? Then i will be able to understand your statement!!!!! and discuss it. Lets not play semantics!!!
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bencox1
20-Jul-12, 09:16
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The facts?
brigadecommander I don't mean to be rude but those are the facts edited or not. Obama should be impeached for his unconstitutional laws and for going to war without approval with congress. If left to his own devices he would make the American people slaves to himself and the elite. Obama wants to bring America to its knees and create the next communist state. Read this please and come to grips with what is happening not only in America but across the world. www.libertyzone.com
www.washingtontimes.com
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ben. . . !
going to the Moonie-founded & biased Washington Times for truth
would be like
going to Dracula for a blood transfusion.
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bencox1
20-Jul-12, 09:48
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Dracula?
The fact remains that America is becoming paralleled to 1984 and I don't think that if you discredit the Times because you don't agree with them falsifies my argument one bit. If you came with evidence to prove the contrary then we could debate but there is no evidence to prove that Obama is not debasing America. What he says and what he does are two different things and I posted some video's where it is shown where Obama changes his stance on issues numerous times.
Attacking people (or newspapers) rather than debating about them is not what this club is about. I'm not trying to make enemies I just want people to realize what is going on in the White House behind closed doors is not always kosher.
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Okay, ben--
just out of fairness to you, to be sure we understand your point:
Think about it. Do you truly believe this? ====>
<<"Obama wants to bring America to its knees,
and create the next communist state.">>
?
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bencox1
20-Jul-12, 12:57
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Maybe I made that statement out on a limb but you can't deny what Obama is doing is not constitutional. You can't deny that he has broken promises that he made. What he is doing is not for the good of the people. I don't know what his intentions are but he is either ignorant or he knows what he is doing.
Here is a website and if you look at the facts shows how president's over the past few years have been undermining America liberty and bringing us closer to a totalitarian state.
www.hermes-press.com
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Ahh..
Guys? Please stay away from personal attacks on members and public figures. Discuss the issues, the ideas. I didn't have time to read through all the posts, but I see some of them turn nasty. Please don't go there.
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I understand that post was in response to a question posed but the same point could have been made in a more... gentle manner. Conversation is more easily understood and received than yelling.
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i think someone is been reading..
Glen Beck ( a great hysterical Reprobate and scholar) and the Michele Bachmann ( dean of the McCarthyism college) and several others noted crackpots. I suggest that they also attend American History classes!! Learning how the American Govt works,Who has power to do what and when and all the checks and balances their in. Then and most important 'History classes' of all types and quickly!!! But really Gentlemen!! i ask you....is this the best you have!! Unless there is more , I REST MY CASE.
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by the way Ben
The president doesn't make laws!!...The congress does. So when you refer to 'unconstitutional laws made by the president' you are only echoing fringe groups and loonies. Again The President can't make any laws!! the congress does that.
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Hey wait a minute. I agree with much of what Beck, Bachman and some of the other crackpots have said...er.. I mean other constitutional scholars have to say. Yea, that's it. I agree with much of what Beck, Bachman and some of the other constitutional scholars have to say. Ann Coulter and Rush Limppaw, I mean Limbaugh, have some great perspectives and insights. You may not agree with some of what they say or believe. You may not like how they present their point of view but you simply HAVE to agree that they are often correct if not abrasive.
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these are your sourses of information!!
Sir. Again i ask you to explain 'How' the president is taking the country in a wrong direction?? you made the statement. In a debate if you make a statement you have to defend it right!! If you ask me to defend a statement i made or make i will defend it. So 'how is the president taking the country in the wrong direction'??? Please enlighten me as i have studied American law and 'know how this Govt works'!!! If you can not answer this then why debate???? saying i am using the so-called 'Gotcha ploy' does not work!! The Presidents only real power is in War and the 'veto'.You must know how many times the President has used his veto?? that's the only way he can stop laws he doesn't like!!! and theoretically affect the trajectory of our country. And it can be over-ridden by a 2/3 vote from congress!!
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i am starting to worry
that a lack of understanding about how the American system works with its checks and balances and who has the power to do what and when is hurting the quality of this so-called debate. A proper Knowledge of History also would be very useful.
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Short version
I'm going to leaving in a few minutes and be out of town for the weekend so I won't be able to answer fully right now. I'll start with this. Do you know what the bully pulpit is? It's a term used to describe the office of the President when it's used to strong-arm and coerce. You also have Executive Orders and appointments to various posts and positions.
These appointments can and do write new rules and regulations that the appointer wants created. You can increase manpower in certain jobs, then task those people to enforce new statutes and requirements. You can direct your law enforcement to ignore laws you don't like. You can change the way different organizations and offices interact, and on and on and on. You get the idea.
Have a great weekend... Do your homework because... I'll be back
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bencox1
20-Jul-12, 16:32
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brigadecommander I don't understand why you are blowing your top, calm down, stop attacking people and listen to sound reason and judgment. Nobody is going to take you very seriously if you go and make make weak straw man arguments and attack people and not their positions.
You seem to understand basic civics but alot of the constitutional God given rights are being trodden down today by Obama. Here is a link where it shows how the president is taking the country in the wrong direction.
www.infowars.com
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i am calm Sir
It is you and your repeating the words of right wing demagogues that is loosing it!! Do you understand the Constitution of the United states at all or do you just mindlessly repeat the rantings of these demagogues and fanatics. I would be best if you went back to school and learned American History and the American form of Govt. The President does not have the power to 'make 'laws' Sir. Only the Congress can do that. So when you say the presidents 'unconstitutional laws', you are making a fool of yourself. Because the 'President proposes and the Congress disposes' This is simple Constitutional Law.
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