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caveman1960
03-Oct-19, 16:22
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What we need to look at is what is white trying to do as well. And I think if allowed e4 is his next move. Do we allow it or try to stop it.
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caveman1960
03-Oct-19, 16:33
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So Joe besides developing a piece what is the plan behind Nc6 also with the other candidate moves as well. Too compete with our esteemed opponent we need to think beyond reacting move by move and try to plan further ahead. White has more pawn control over the central four squares at the moment. We can contest with d5 to prevent the immediate d5 or allow e4 and look at counter attackattacking his centre though his move c3 really bolstered his d4.
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I'm in favor of d5 expecting e4 from him. If so how about Nxe4?
Just not to sure his counter moves, I'm looking at multiple other moves like d6.
It may seem were playing move by move because we are, but we can make multiple moves in our analysis out 2-3 moves.
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caveman1960
03-Oct-19, 18:38
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I think if we play 5....d5 he won't play 6.e4 because as redfoxrising suggests 6.....Nxe4 wins us a pawn so I would expect 6.e3 instead. Though it is worth analysing as it could be a deep sacrifice.
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caveman1960
03-Oct-19, 18:43
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5.......d6 6.e4 Nbd7 preparing e5 or c5 or both might be worth a look.
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i will vote for d6,and let Martin do the thinking. I may be a lazy old bugger,but when i am playing black I ike to be cautious and react,and only start to analyse more than a couple ahead if white makes an error, or if i am falling behind i go looking for complications. No paralysis by analysis fo this little black duck!
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 5...d6
If we were to play 5...d5 then I think our plan would be to try and play ...e5 after some preparatory moves and challenge the centre that way.
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In answer to Wolfgang's question, the only reason I'd be thinking about ...Nc6 would be development. But, as you rightly pointed out, that's not nearly a good enough reason. The focus needs to be on the, overall, picture which a mentor emphasized to me, and it's also what we're focused on. Having said that, although I'm torn between the two moves, my vote is ...d6 to prevent white from playing Ne5.
My way of thinking is that Martin might be trying to do something with his Nf3. At first, it doesn't appear so, and is anything but obvious. But, my coach once emphasized that when you let your opponent get his N to a far enough position, down a far enough rank, it can become dangerous. So, it's often important to prevent them from swarming. I don't know if that's so here, but I go by my instincts. And, they're telling me that ...d6 is our best move for that reason.
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In fact, what Ron and others mentioned after d5, so taking on e4 is an example of such. Why risk losing anything?
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I'll jump on board
I do change my vote from d5 to d6
It was not easy but each move is different in complexity. In the past I have just developed. The playing of Nc6 while a developmental move is not best in this turn based game. Jumping back to view the board with all our discussion is something I think I need to open up another window. Glad to see all of you who are actively participating in this game thread.
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caveman1960
04-Oct-19, 19:00
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I was favouring 5.....d5 to prevent e4 by white but as Joe points out that does allow Ne5. I will need further use of the old grey matter before committing to my choice.
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dmaestro
04-Oct-19, 21:07
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D6 is more thematic and I favor it.
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jotheblackqueen
05-Oct-19, 10:37
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5...d6 has been played
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this looks like a version of the Torres attack. or t.heTrompowski, no need to do much but develop at the moment. I think Marti will play E3 on move 6, and follow with be2
we should look at developing our queens nite to d7 after moving the lsb to either f5 or g4. any other ideas?
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The plan of e3 then be2 seems correct If we play Bg4 to pin his N. then h3 is played either have to retreat so Bf5 might be better.
Either way depends on him playing e3.
What else might he play?
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Bh4 has been played
The current position is
Martin
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caveman1960
10-Oct-19, 19:12
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Did nt see that coming. Planning Bg3 and play along the h2b8 diagonal. My first thought is Nbd7 and my second b6.
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l would be happy with 6 pc5 at this point. i cannot make sense of 6.Bh4. just loses a tempo i think. i will put it down to a computer slip, i think BxN was intended.
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I think that Wolfgang is alluding to 6...Bg4 and is also my vote. As now, it appears that white will be faced with a little pressure since we're threatening to exchange their more active N for our less active B.
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jotheblackqueen
13-Oct-19, 05:47
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6. ...... Nbd7 has been played
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e3 has been played
The current position is:
Martin
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On that note, my vote, as of right now is 7...Nb6 not only bringing our N to a better outpost, but freeing our Bc8. I'm not sure that this'll work which is why my vote is subject to change, but it looks like a good move, even if it might not be.
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caveman1960
13-Oct-19, 14:59
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Hi Joe,.
You re thinking of just developing. If it was an open position we might have to prioritize development. Here we have more time. What is the plan with Nbd7. I think its to support a pawn counter attack against the centre. I. E. E5 or c5. Also I think we can consider b6 to develop the bishop along the a8h1 diagonal. KID Positions are nt my forte so I'm sure team members who play these positions can help us more.
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A lot is about development but not everything. What I'm also thinking about is how cramped our position is on d7. It's also where the N's placed, as I don't think it has a lot of mobility. TA posted about N visualization counts and he noted that on the 7th and 2nd ranks, they don't have a lot of mobility. A lot of players place it there, in order to put them on an even stronger square then before. And, I remember GM Susan Polgar saying something very similar to that. On the other hand, I agree with you. Similarly, I'm also not that accustomed to the KID, believe it or not, and there are others who I'm pretty sure have more experience. Although, I posted my vote, I also don't know what the best move is here. In addition, it would take very little to take me off guard in this kind of position which is not a good thing when that happens to me. In fact, that's why the last thing that Ken recommended to me was studying these kinds of positions that I'm not so familiar and given who's it's against it's certainly educational for me.
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i tend to agree with you in this instance Joe. I don't think Nd7 was the best of moves. As u noted, it blocks the LSB. I preferred pc5 followed followed by Nb6,and development is complete. but then martins move of Bh4 has thrown me a bit,and so i am inclined to play 7...pd5 before we move the nite again.
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looked at different pawn moves
pd5 makes the most sense and is my vote.
I agree that we don't move our Knight just yet.
Other pawn moves pb6 to fianchetto or pd6 for center control.
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caveman1960
15-Oct-19, 00:17
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I will vote for c5
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How about 7...Re8 preparing to play e5?
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dmaestro
15-Oct-19, 13:23
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Nd7 is perfectly consistent with these KID type formations for black against the Colle formation white chose. White sets up the attack then pushes e4. Typically black plays e5 first and looks to expand on the kside. At this point I’d just play e5. The problem with c5 is its not consistent with the position and I don’t see enough q side attack to deter white. d5 loses a tempo and doesn’t defer white’s plan.
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With Michael's experience with the KID and finding out that the N is placed ok, combined with, what he would do, I change my vote to 7...e5.
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