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tactical_abyss 27-Jan-13, 08:17 |
 Trompowsky Attack Opening |
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rmannstaedt 27-Jan-13, 08:43 |
 game, he was rated 1558 while I was 1659 at the time). It wasn't what I would call a flawless game ... but the way he handled the opening shows, I think, one of the issues you should be aware of when you play it: the bishop is "loose" and subject to attack.
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tactical_abyss 27-Jan-13, 09:32 |
Yes,many times the Bishop is on the loose,(depending upon which Tromp line you use)but I sort of compare it to a Ruy in the first few opening moves(a bit anyway)where white retreats his Bishop back after blacks pawns attack it....to a safety area on whites first few ranks. But in reality,there is actually no loose Bishop in a pure Trompowsky Attack!Now why is that? Well from a Trompowsky "purists"view,white must EXCHANGE his Bishop on g5 for Blacks Knight on f6!This creates the famed "doubled pawn"structure on Blacks F file.As one of my Tromp books states(The Trompowsky Attack,by Andrew Soltis GM)...."the capture on f6 is the only line true to the spirit of the Trompowsky,although there are some trappy lines to be found in some of the offshoots".Soltis goes on to mention the words..."played a pure Trompowsky Attack"and illustrates various games in his nice book. So games like: 1.d4,Nf6 2.Bg5,c5 3.Bxf6,gxf6 4.d5,Qb6 or like: 1.d4,Nf6 2.Bg5,d5 3.Bxf6,exf6 4.e3,c5 Both of these var lines are considered a "true purists Tromp",even though many other lines will be catagorized under the Tromp opening label....so then,no "loose"Bishop,just a captured one!! Here are 2 pure tromp games from my past game history.One is a win,the other a draw.... game game In that win with drhpatron,he admitted to me(at that time)that he was not very familiar with the Tromp,and got "lost"with my moves.I already had researched his past game history on GK regarding a Tromp which he did not have,so thats why I used it against him.I'm sure by now he is much better preparded for it now,however! As I stated in many other GK threads,the Tromp is a great tool for moving out of book quickly and is still evolving.Polgar used it alot in her games,and I have followed her history using this attack game and have won quite alot with it. |
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tactical_abyss 27-Jan-13, 09:42 |
By the way,that was a nice tromp win on the black side! Thanks for sharing that game!I admit,i'm a Tromp junkie and my favorite attack game IS the Tromp!I prefer games that have more limited book lines than others,but thats me,not necessarily the next guy! |
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rmannstaedt 27-Jan-13, 09:44 |
I like "unusual" openings ... But I learned, playing those games, that the Trompowsky absolutely has to be met by energetic play, right from the start. That is very important. This is one opening where Black cannot sit back and just let things develop quietly! |
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tactical_abyss 27-Jan-13, 09:57 |
Much of this is DUE to the"uncharted waters"(a term you will see me use alot)and the fear of opening to mid game strategy that some players know "inside"that they are a bit weak in,especially when they have no book lines from say,move # 8 or 10! |
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clippery 29-Jan-13, 11:11 |
blackgnik vs. theshandykid |
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tactical_abyss 29-Jan-13, 16:22 |
A penny's worth of thought for now... A chess player must have the true passion and patience and be willing to burn the midnight oil to master an opening like a Tromp.or any other opening for that matter. Three pretty good books: www.amazon.com www.amazon.com www.amazon.com A few of my games: game game game game Some past forum remarks by me: Another tromp win.... Since this string is on the Tromp,I will occassionally post some of my finished Tromp games as above.Throughout my chess career,I have been very successful playing the so called "dreaded"Trompowsky Attack.I am playing a few right now,but can't speak of those.This one which just recently finished was against a strong master,who was doing fairly well up until a weakened and non properly supported pawn structure on blacks Queen side and exchanges from move #24.....quite early for a floor to begin to crumble on the master + level.But one of the keys in this game was to have a "free wheeling" connected Rook pair on the first rank which is usually a powerful combination for attack and defense and potential pressure on mid game central doubled pawns,as in slobodanmijic e4+e6 pawns. While 3.Bh4 has become a main line in many past games,I consider 3.Bf4! much more solid and whites initial Bishop retreat still maintains alot of uncharted and suprising flavor,yet still maintains solidity that is not present in other lines,whether known or unknown. The Tromp has what I deem as a "psychological"advantage many times over opponents,since position and tactics many times takes a turn down a "side road" away from well known book lines(and many times move out of book quicker than normal),and those strong players that have a positional "snapshot" in their mind about what they have been use to in a Queen pawn opening will simply dissolve very quickly...when I unleash my "pet"and are not fully prepared for it. In the game that I will post below,one note in 3.Bf4's advantage is that 3....g5 has not as much sting since white can play 5.Bc1 and can possibly win a pawn and some tempo with 5.f3.If black would have played more subtle with 3....e6,white can exploit the Knights position to gain some additional time with 4.f3 or 4.Nd2. game I have also has a good # of draws with the Tromp,but the good news is that I rarely lose with it.For that reason,it is my opinion that it is a good weapon to use against a stronger opponent even higher in rating than myself,and perhaps should be considered likewise on the lower rating levels under the same scenario. Keep in mind that the "true" and "pure"Tromps are usually characterized by the move 3.Bxf6,exf6 or 3.Bxf6,gxf6. Thats all for now.With some of ions great annotations,some of the books I mentioned and the comments,along with some of my game links I posted(which you can go through in time),this should help any tromp enthusiasts! TA |
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blackgnik vs theshandykid Here's the link to the annotation with comments. You will find some extra interesting stuff in the latter. gameknot.com I sometimes think, you know, that a volume that contained some of these sorts of games would have at least as much, if not more, didactic value for players in their early development as a game between masters. The player of the Black pieces, by the way, is the son of an old chess-buddy of school days back in the '60s: known on GK as thejoxter. |
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tactical_abyss 01-Feb-13, 06:03 |
Again,what i'm trying to say is that it takes a certain type of player and a higher degree of "passion"to become proficient at an opening like the Tromp.It cannot simply be a "passing"fancy.One must be willing to really have a "sincere"interest in the Tromp and be willing to study for months or even years the various subvariations and unexplored areas that this opening creates.It really IS a fine opening and IS played on the GM level.The element of surprise value is key many times in lining up(preparing) the Tromp against "just the right"opponent!I cannot count how many opponents I have beaten with this opening,simply because it was a "new"type of game that my opponent was not used to playing,did not recognize the new piece patterns that develop from early on or even a different pawn chain configuration.Is it the strongest opening,with razor sharp moves and gambits?No,no,no!Its the type of game that takes on obscure,subtle type moves with many times a slow positional buildup.But then,it can also be over in less than 25 moves for the unprepared.So winning many times comes with opening that are less known,not necessarily"better",stronger or have the highest degree of statistical wins!Forget that way of thinking! In summary,it IS many times a psychological advantage to play this game against the unprepared,especially one that can move out of the books fairly quickly.My advice to any tromp "want to be's" is to buy a few books on the tromp and raise your awareness on the unusual first 10-15 moves that can surface and try them against an opponent that does not have a Tromp in their game history on GK.Experiment! Later in another post,i'm going to speak about a much weaker opening....The Basman Defense. But mainly as a weapon utilized in a different winning "form",mainly as a blitz weapon,not the long corresp game.But for now,I hope you readers atleast try out the tromp once in a while.You know,that Ruy,or Queens gambit declined can get alittle old and boring sometimes!Spice it up a bit,kick it up a notch! |
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Playing through the above games... The game against slobodanmijic becomes a freewheeling melee across the whole board, with pieces broadcast all over the place. But what impressed me most was the situation that arose against b0bo after 48 moves: w (white to play) For the exchange, Black has two pawns, though it is immediately obvious that the b-pawn will soon fall. But so unpromising do White's pawns look, it is hard to see that he can make much progress. But watch the plan unfold, in which White tears Blacks pawn structure to shreds, and then goes after them once they are vulnerably isolated. I've seen footage of a (lone) wolf doing something like that with a herd of caribou. Remarkable. (Which reminds me, tactical_abyss: we'll have to start up a thread or two on endgames. Maybe three. I can think of 3 titles: Endgame technique (elementary and not so elementary technical points in endgames); Endgame studies (these are like puzzles, but take the form of 'White to play and win', or '...draw', and have no fixed number of moves), and 'Creativity in endgames' (which would be very like the thread I began a long time ago in the Chess forum). What do you think?) |
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tactical_abyss 01-Feb-13, 14:05 |
Endgame study sounds good to me,ion.Infact,it really should be one of the first things to look at,before openings anyway.I don't have alot of time right now,probably not for a few weeks,but you are welcome to start any endgame posts if you like.I may join in later,or you you can just wait a while,its up to you.I'm hoping for more members to the club to get more kickback in these threads anyway. |
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tactical_abyss 04-Feb-13, 23:56 |
another offshoot of the Tromp... Enjoy! www.youtube.com |
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Bellin's "Trompowski" Hodgson I enjoy for his coverage of attacking chess, Palliser on the Benoni, and Soltis most enduringly for his "Turning Advantage into Victory in Chess" (where for instance you will meet the concept of the "super-square".) Just wondering what you think of the pre-computer book on the Trompowsky by Robert Bellin, who is usually a pretty good teacher of chess. |
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rmannstaedt 13-Feb-13, 08:33 |
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Zeuthen's masterpiece |
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rmannstaedt 13-Feb-13, 09:39 |
Zeuthen I used it a bit, before I dropped chess entirely in favour of studies and jobs. Fascinating, I think, because the Grunfeld is so absolutely uncompromising in its way. But I didn't "convert" to it - enjoyed other openings, like the Benoni (and Pirc, which I played a lot at that time), too much. |
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the Grünfeld |
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rmannstaedt 13-Feb-13, 10:05 |
May I ask - why not use the Grünfeld in correspondance play? I recognize I am not at your rating ... (yet, heh!) ... but surely you play for a win, always? |
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winning with the Grünfeld, looking to replace the Caro it has been my experience -- and there are Grünfeld-ers with much much greater experience -- than in correspondence play, the Grünfeld offers White too much opportunity to equalize the position and create a draw. But what I would really like to find is an opening for Black against pawn to King four that offers all the flow of possibilities that the Queen's Gambit does, when I play White. Lately I play the Caro Kann a lot and find it absolutely repellent, the positions it gets me into look inelegant, make me want to vomit, the structures are pathetic -- yet, it gets good results -- but in playing it, as they say, "there is no joy in Mudville" -- it is Not fun, it lacks the thrust and parry of an opening that can give rise to (for instance) windmill combinations arising from positions where the entire board is an explosive minefield. |
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rmannstaedt 13-Feb-13, 10:43 |
looking to replace the Caro Looking around for something to play against PK4, I tried the Latvian for a while. Fun-fun, but ... well ... maybe there really is such a thing as too much fun? I am looking at the Schliemann; it may work for me. But meanwhile, and just for fun and trying something else, what about the Alekhine? I tried it a couple of times recently - mainly because I was a bit bored and wanted something different - and I was, truth to tell, a bit shocked at how well it actually played. The book I have on it isn't that good though (W. Bagirow) and I have been thinking of getting something more up-to-date and in-depth on the strategic aspects of the opening. Have you heard of something you could recommend? Alternatively I may take a look at the Pirc again. I didn't handle it well, earlier - I was far, far too defensive in my play. But I believe White may be able to force play into drawing lines in that opening, if memory serves. |
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tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 10:45 |
Stats average 35.8% wins for white,23.3 % for black wins and a whopping 40.9% draw ratio. Not that a 1700-1900 player will necessarily fall into that draw catagory,but i'm just mentioning the stats.My past game history is full of draws using the Grun,but then,I get draws using almost any opening or defense when playing 2300-2400 players. Note: Oh,guys,even though I ALSO went off the post topic....try to keep this thread open to ONLY the Trompowsky conversations for future viewers to find more easily. Any of you guys can start a new post on the Grunfeld or the Caro and continue the conversation if you want. Thanks! |
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rmannstaedt 13-Feb-13, 10:50 |
Trompowsky I have started a new thread on the topic... |
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the challenge of chess, and perhaps the advantage of the Tromp <<"I get draws using almost any opening or defense when playing 2300-2400 players.">> and isn't that the challenge of this game? it is born from an equal position -- and then in late middlegame we once more can be finding ourselves in what appears to be a position of equilibrium, the forces poised -- but held in balance -- a stand-off where winning means meeting the challenge of eroding, exploding, in some way destroying that equilibrium. And that's got to be an advantage of an opening like the Trompowsky, avoiding the doldrums of a drawish position. |
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tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 11:12 |
As few stats on the tromp.Stats can vary depending upon the source,but you can get an idea,anyway: chesstempo.com chesstempo.com Trompowsky Attack 38 31 31 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 - 2...d5 Variation 36 29 35 2...d5 - 2...Ne4 Variation 38 32 30 2...Ne4 White win,black win,draw(above numbers) |
