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rmannstaedt 13-Feb-13, 10:51	What to use against 1.e4 ... ? What do you use against 1.e4 ? The Caro-Kann was my first "real" chess opening ... so for that reason I am sentimental about it. But - I don't really play it any more. Have thought about giving it a look again, but originally I gave it up because I didn't find much joy in those positions. Looking around for something to play against PK4, I tried the Latvian for a while. Fun-fun, but ... well ... maybe there really is such a thing as too much fun? I am looking at the Schliemann; it may work for me. But meanwhile, and just for fun and trying something else, what about the Alekhine? I tried it a couple of times recently - mainly because I was a bit bored and wanted something different - and I was, truth to tell, a bit shocked at how well it actually played. The book I have on it isn't that good though (W. Bagirow) and I have been thinking of getting something more up-to-date and in-depth on the strategic aspects of the opening. Have any of you heard of something you could recommend? Alternatively I may take a look at the Pirc again. I didn't handle it well, earlier - I was far, far too defensive in my play. But I believe White may be able to force play into drawing lines in that opening, if memory serves.
shamash 13-Feb-13, 10:58	the Alekhine Opening first of all Bagirov on the English is almost unsurpassed as a theoretician. on the Alekhine I have Bogdanov ("Play the Alekhine", Gambit 2009), because I really like reading Bogdanov, and I was about to try out the Alekhine here, which is why I purchased his text -- but then reading up on it -- this is reading, Not playing -- I drew the conclusion it would not survive an outing against correspondence players with the time to really analyze its deficiencies, including Black's power to stifle White's ability to initiate active operations in the middlegame.
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 11:34	TA's odd Alk's.... I agree with your thoughts on the Alk,shamash.But being the abyss,I have to,of course,give and present a lesson on another form of the Alk to lesser rated opponents.The 2 games I present below(and you probablty seen them shamash,but I do not think rmann has) represents an extreme form of an Alekhine but with even more loss of tempo.I also play,what I call.... TA's Reverse Alekhine for white.I do not necessarily "recommend" playing either these 2 variations,unless you have a titanium stomach...but they both represent an opponent "lesson" in overextension,noncommital illusions of weakeness and more: game game Just call these games a psychological ploy and perhaps some injected humor? TA
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 11:45	Notice blacks position with all his pieces at move # 10 in the first link. Notice whites position after move # 10 in the second link. Hmmmmm...so,so,so weak for me to play!But then I win both games. So read all the books on opening theory you want,spend 10,000 dollars on books and DVD's. But if you do not properly apply what you read or don't know how,then those 2 game losses will be the result!One of the players was over 1700+.He should have trampled me to death! But he did not.I play alot of these type of games(Alek)in blitz as well and consistantly win. Basically I am always out to prove that alot of players simply have this "misconception"that they will win against such "silly"moves as above,but as they say...."talk is cheap".In the "waiting" games above,I simply "wait"for weakness in the shadows,then spring forward,just at the right moment,like a spider waiting for the fly in the middle of the web! TA
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 12:10	On a much more serious note.... As black,I have always favored the English Symmetrical 1.c4,c5,especially in corresp play.An intense stuggle for d4 and d5 can develop.I also am a bit of a student with cyrano's Sicilian games.He does statistically better than me in mastering the Sicilian wins as black.So,yes,I am always "spying"on his mid game ploys.
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 12:46	what i use against 1.e4 I 'always respond with 1...e5. If white plays a Lopez and is no more then 100 rating points higher then i am, i play the Zaitsev variation as black. And occasionally i play the Breyer regrouping system as black. Against very strong players i have now adopted the Berlin Defense and so far i have drawn every game, even against 2400-2500+ players.It is 'Impregnable'. It exemplifies the defensive concept of 'Igelstellen'. Against all other 1.e4 systems such as Gioco Piano, or Scotch game, or any other, i am quite comfortable with 1....e5. I grew up on these openings. If TA or shamash would like to try their luck playing a 'unrated' game against my Berlin system, i would be very happy to accommodate them. But it would be 'futile' as i have integrated this system into my bloodstream and the wall cannot be broken.. I have no book yet on the Berlin defense but I have a book on the Zaitsev by 'Sverre Johnsen and Leif Johannessen called ' the Ruy Lopez;a guide for black'. I have committed the lessons of this book to memory, but the real way to learn a variation is to go over all the GM games you can find . And keep up with any innovations that occur from time to time. This i have done with the Berlin Defense. Leaving no stone unturned. So how about it TA? when you finish your vacation perhaps? And shamash;''ας συναντηθούμε πριν από τις πύλες της Τροίας''''. If there is anyone who cold find a weakness in the Berlin it is you!! how about it. We can play the game right here on this forum (i will cut and paste the positions). It would be exceedingly helpful to all members.
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 13:12	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 13-Feb-13, 13:18.
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 13:17	Thanks for the invite brigadecommander.I am zeroing-out my games for now,after my one remaining game,too busy with personal things.Maybe Shamash can do it for now?You are correct,however,and its not surprising that the Berlin is a good drawing weapon.As wiki state's: "The Berlin Defence, 3...Nf6, has long had a reputation for solidity and drawishness and is sometimes called "the Berlin Wall". So,in a sense,I might want to employ the Berlin against,say,high or borissp depending upon my intentions at that specific time.So,I do not doubt that you could draw against the 2400-2500 players using the Berlin.But then,I think I could very probably draw against Anand or Carlsen if I played a Petrov Defense and they did not transpose to something else.No,I do not compare the Berlin to the Petrov,well,not exactly,but its just another example(but in more simplified terms)that some openings simply have a very high statistical draw ratio over others. And of course,the Petrov has even a higher draw ratio than most.Thats why,for example,I would not play a rated Petrov,even against a 1700 player.Why?Because its so easy to draw,that the draw,which I probably could NOT avoid with a sharp 1700 opponent,would lose me a bunch of rating points.So logic dictates a big fat...NO. Maybe in the future,bridge,i'll keep the Berlin in mind(unrated).But not now.Thanks anyway
shamash 13-Feb-13, 13:37	meeting before the gates of Troy Janet, now didn't that combat take TEN years?
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 13:56	Ok,ok,ok,ok.I changed my mind!One game only with 3 day time controls and unrated. I will send 1.e4 shortly! I expect a draw,but for the sake of learning experience,I will send you a challenge.Shamash is also welcome to send a second challenge,if he wants or just stand back and watch.I never comment on moves as in an annotation,but you are free to do whatever you like.Maybe you can beat the abyss?I hope so!It will be a learning experience for me!
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 14:02	yes it took a while. Cities will forever fall for the sake of a Woman. but have no fear, I'm American and tend to rush. But my point is that these 'drawing' weapons have the effect of pushing an opponent to take more chances. In my recent draws with three highly rated players i was 'ready' to take advantage of any exuberent moves by my opponents. They either 'had' to play by the rules and draw or take chances and maybe loose. If the Berlin defense is such an opening then there 'must' be others!! Time to study all of Petrosian's games again i think, and Capablanca's. Yes lots of draws but they managed to get to the top also. Maybe Philidor's defense or the Caro Kann or TA 's Tromp, or some other old opening gathering dust, can be brought out, and refurbished for battle. I am really tired of playing opponents on the terrain they select. But you have not said ya or nay as to our unrated Berlin DEFENSE game. I await your answer with eagerness and Trepidation..
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 14:55	Ok.The game has started between Brigad and me with the Berlin.As I told her,normally,I do what is called an "anti berlin" system.One of my "secrets" to have a much better chance at winning,not drawing with this opening.But I will reveal a bit of my ploys.I'll post a link with some "anti berlin game wins for white.Take a look at some of these fine games.Deeper discussion can come later. www.chessgames.com www.chessgames.com
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 15:02	But again,this game,is not 2.f3 which in my defense,I must simply tell you I would have played instead of 2.Nf3.But in the spirit of the Berlin,I will follow through with some of the main lines. TA
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 15:24	2.f3 this move is interesting and i hope someday to meet it. Someone will have to come up with some innovation to deal with the Berlin. Maybe in the Summer TA, we can explore this move.
archduke_piccolo 13-Feb-13, 16:03	I had a bit of a look at those links... ... and then I found this: Efranenko vs Georgiev, 2005 b Black to play: 40...f5?? (WTHIGOH?) 41.exf5 gxf5 42.Ra3 Kf7 43.Rxa5 Ke6 44.Rxa7 Rxd4 ... and with that final move, removed all doubt as to where the WQ and BR were standing. (This might look off topic, but it is one of the Anti-Berlin Games [one feels like calling it the Jericho-Berlin, or maybe the Zhukov Attack, depending upon its reliability as an attacking line against the Berlin Defence]. One feels vaguely this thing ought to have been a draw).
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 16:04	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 13-Feb-13, 16:06.
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 16:06	brigadecommander.... Yes,perhaps later.Well,maybe.But in all truthfulness,2.f3 is a major weapon of mine and some of my weapons I prefer not to discuss,since it is the "abyss"edge.But links with other games are always available...thats no secret,so I posted them.Would you believe,that I have "spys"that enter GK and stay at 1200 ratings,just so they can get a handle on some of my games(like 2.f3)?So,then,they use it against me at the Marshall or on another correp site I belong to.How do I know this?I have my sources! The things I can tell you,are beyond what you can imagine,but I do not lie. TA PS...looks like a draw already!But i will give you some endgame irritation,I hope
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 16:11	My Dad and his Dad played at the Marshall chess club.My Grandfather told amazing stories about skittle games late at night with some of the best players of the day. As for myself i played in Washington sq park and at the 'chess shop'. I miss Manhattan!!
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 16:14	The anti weapon.... yes,ion, I have not checked out all those games,but a good # of them.Perhaps there are a few good refutations for a draw.The second link is with much higher rated opponents.But,the idea in theory is to give white a better fighting chance for an edge than the drawish well established lines of the Berlin.Atleast this is my opinion and I have had better success at it than the straightforward Berlin.When I feel up to it,I will be glad to share some more thoughts on this variation,but i'm touchy about it!Sorry!
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 16:30	Even when it snows,there are players playing at WSP.I once seen a game with icecubes and button like chess pieces froze to the top of the cubes as they slid them across a glass chessboard!
shamash 13-Feb-13, 16:33	why it is not for me to attack Berlin As you hone your weapon for battle, it is gracious of you to offer a test game with the words, "If there is anyone who could find a weakness in the Berlin it is you." And of course it is a good idea to test out the strength of a new defense against strong opponents. A strong opponent naturally would be someone with battle-tested experience in fighting and winning games with 1 e4 lines. About 900 rating points ago, I did open with 1 e4. And then I discovered the fluid joys of the lines of the Queen's Gambit -- and never looked back. So I have Nothing to offer in testing a system against 1 e4. And when I say nothing I mean nothing strategically, because you know I play strategically. No useful competitive opening or middle-game experience of any value whatsoever. The lines I play are in a whole different galaxy, a whole different web of attack-corridors and positional possibilities of transforming advantage from one kind to another. It occurs to me, that when you say "find a weakness in the Berlin. . . , " if we look beyond the weakness of a particular Defense (if it has a vulnerability) to the weakness of a structure, then I think of Savielly Tartakower's annotations to Rabar-Bajec (Sarajevo, 1951), where he intriguingly points out that sometimes it is a better strategy "to base the idea of attack on strong points rather than weak points in the opponent's formation."
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 16:36	Ion, No,your comments are within the subject of the post,so is the anti berlin.And sub comments are ok too,like above.This post is about e4 responses,so it is somewhat unlimited!I just didn't want a big mix of different opening defense chat in the Trompowsky post.I plan to add much to that other post in the coming months.....
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 16:38	old Brooklyn in WSP When i was about 15, i used to go early in the morning.Set up my board (pieces) and wait for a challenge. Most wanted to play speed chess for money. But i insisted on at least 30-min games and no-prize money. Yet i moved at a 10-min game rate.Its a matter of principle to me as it was my Dads. He used to take me to another place. In BKLYN there is a place called 'sunset park'. RFischer played there when he was very young. I had to stand by my Dads board and watch.I hated chess and this park.But i learned!!
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 16:48	I know the western section/long island quite well.I live in Pa,but work in NYC.The subway runs to areas of the sunset as well.
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 17:01	based on these games i chose 11...Bc8. www.chessgames.com in my ongoing game.
tactical_abyss 13-Feb-13, 17:50	Thanks for giving me your source. Well,with those games,after looking at them...its now time to steer it away from those and enter the out of book stage. 11....Bc8 was one of the 2 moves I would have made,however.
brigadecommander 13-Feb-13, 17:55	We are out of the database. at least the three i am familiar with. Good. This is where i can learn and build up my own personal database. This is what i hoped for. Merlino and cyrano stayed in the book and i drew easily. Thank you TA.
tactical_abyss 14-Feb-13, 05:31	The "anti"...a good response for black as well.... Glad to be of help,brigadecommander. Like I mentioned above,(and you did too)...the Berlin has a high draw stat rate,so it is a good drawing weapon against higher rated opponents(like I can also use against players higher than me).I have also found this out over the years by playing it regularily,but mostly OTB.So,I already have my own personal database with this flavor of play.That is why you WON'T see me playing the Berlin on GK,except in our one experimental unrated game.It simply does not have enough winning potential behind it to be taken seriously by most players 2300 and above.And in reality,since most of my opponents are south of me in rating,(theres not enough anymore to be north of me!)...then a draw will simply cost me rating points.So again,logic dictates a big fat...NO in playing this variation. So,in summary,I would say,that there is definitely better winning potential in the Anti-Berlin. Take note that Magnus Carlsen and Judit Polgar have played this variation on occassion and have done well with itThese are older games from 2002,but the "anti" still has alot of sting,on all rating levels of play and should be incorporated into both white's AND blacks personal database of research and play. www.chessgames.com www.chessgames.com Take note that the anti-berlin is viewed mainly from whites perspective,but it does include black's response play,so it is still within the logistics of rmanns post.So,it is a good weapon against 1.e4 with the follow through 1.e4,e5 2.f3,c6 3.b5,f6 4.d3,c5 5.0-0,d6 6.c3,b6 7.Bd2,0-0 and so forth.Try putting in the first 3 moves in GK's database and see what you get. A big fat zero!Although I haven't tried the transpositional gig,I don't think it will work.So,that alone is a plus for the lower rated opponents to play on either side of the board.
baddeeds 16-Feb-13, 08:03	The Sicilian If my opponent opens with 1.e4, I respond with the Siclian Defense, 1...c5. And, I always open with 1.e4, so if my opponent plays the Siclian Defense, I respond with the Open Siclian, so 1...c5, 2.Nf3, 2...d6 3.d4 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4.
tactical_abyss 16-Feb-13, 09:26	Hello Jkarp, The Sicilian is a fine defense,possibly the best.But sometimes I wonder if that is really the best defense to play when you are in the "learning mode"on the class E level which is between 1000-1199 with the USCF rating system.Perhaps for some it is a good opening to study or play first,but then perhaps not.The Sicilian is primarily very aggressive and colorful producing what is called asymmetrical and intense tactical positions.There are an extreme amount of variations and subvariations.I view this as possibly a bit too complex an opening defense as compared to mastering perhaps defenses that produce more symmetry and may be easier to follow through on,learn defensive tactics or positional strategy and get caught up on less tactical surprises.Even a Bishops Opening game 1.e4,e5 2.Bc4(if the opponent plays Bc4 as white)is a good learning tool for beginner play.Then black can play either 2...Nf6 which is aggressive or 2...Bc5 which is less aggressive leading to a longer positional game.Another goody,to some extent is the 1.e4,g6 with 2.d4,Bg7(The Robatsch or Modern Defense).This is also less aggressive than the Pirc because it delays Nf6 and can contain alot of elements for long term positional learning as opposed to say the more aggressive Sicilian.The modern can also transpose into additional style of play similar to a Alekhine or Kings Indian. Again,this is just my opinion,but personally I have learned to actually stay clear of the Sicilian when I was first learning,especially with the odd pawn chain configurations,until I picked up on what i deemed as "easier"openings.Take for exaple,the Petrov defense.Its has highly drawish characteristics playing like a "mirror",but you can learn just by drawing against players rated much higher than you,so that,in and upon itself is a plus! Personally,I have studied the 1.d4 openings and opening defenses more than the King pawn openings and defenses.But thats me,not necessaily the next guy.(But thats not for this thread!)
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