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From	Message
tactical_abyss 23-Apr-13, 09:14	Tabletop chess computers,anyone?Anyone collect? I have a nice collection of tabletop chess computers from the 1970-80's and 90's.Some are all plastic,others are beautiful wood.My two prized collections are the Tasc R-30 and the Phantom Chesster Eyeball model 6126.Both together,they are worth atleast 3,000-4000 dollars because they are in brand new condition with the boxes and are high collectors items.They are so collectible and rare...that just finding either one of these two units on Ebay is very seldom,and when you do,your going to pay to the nose,unless either unit is NOT is prime condition,then of course,the price will drop.But I would never even consider a computer like these not in super good condition,like,for example,some of the lights not working or some selectivity not functioning correctly,scratches,ect.These units cannot simply be repaired anymore because the factories that manufactured them do not exist anymore and getting parts is a nightmare.I even have the original "Boris in a box",from 1979.I still see a Boris on EBay for maybe 40 dollars.A really neat little chess computer!I'm still seeking one or two computers out there,but the ones I want will go for maybe $4000-5000 dollars apiece if I can find them because they are even rarer than the two models I mentioned above...like a Tasc R-40 or a "resurrection" Module Mephisto.Finding either one of those for sale at any price,would be extremely rare because owners do not want to part with them.Only a few units were produced for the R-40 and the Resurrection unit in the world. So,if anyone owns any table computers,just list them in this post! The links below from another collector(ismenio) illustrate the main 2 units I have.The second link below shows the phantom in action!Learning chess on the phantom was wonderful,as it moves its own pieces and talks to you! www.ismenio.com www.youtube.com www.ismenio.com
fr1ar 28-Apr-13, 17:51	Radio Shack :( I picked a plastic set at a Thrift Store a few months ago, it's from Radio Shack, I don't remember the model right off but I was very disappointed with it. It has 64 levels based on the A1-H8 squares on the chess board, on the a1-a8 levels it would make a move within a minute or less on the b1-b2 it could take up to 10-15 minutes to make a move and on c1 I timed the think time for 1 move at 6 hours. As far as the skill level goes, it always opened with Kings Pawn and about move 8-10 would make a major blunder. It wasn't worth the $2 I payed for. I would like to have a table computer sometime because right now I only play about 2-3 games OTB a year and that's with my 11 years nephew. Hey, my wifes been asking what I want for my birthday, now I know what to tell her
tactical_abyss 29-Apr-13, 02:59	fr1ar, Yes,Radio Shack actually came out with a few different models,some good,some not so good.On the "lower" levels(like a1) just like some of the modern software programs of today,many table chess machines(not just Radio Shack models) would initiate a "handicap mode",whereas is actually would sac a piece or intentionally make a silly move to see if you would take advantage of its blunder like position.In a sense,however,this is a good thing for some players since they might be total beginners(for learning purposes),but for others that might be 1400-1500+ fr1ar,not a good thing.Then some cheaper models would make you wait forever before they moved.But also,most models with the proper manual programming...you could get a decent mid range game by placing a time limit on the ENTIRE game(like one or two hour games max) and then raising it to either a3-a4 or maybe the "b"ranges.So you have to experiment.Then,perhaps your model dosen't have an option for an overall time limit?Did you get an instruction manual with the unit?But many units do,indeed have set time limits....that you can adjust for the move time limit(exact setting)or the time setting limit for the entire game(like 1 or 2 hours). I'd say,it boils down to how modern and what you or someone else is willing to pay for a chess machine.There are tons of them on Ebay.The ones made after 2000 will have a faster processor in them compared to the 80's-90's,thus a stronger game with a faster search depth/ply depth.The newer ones will have more selectivity and alot more "bells and whistles". I say units like the Novags or others going for $89.00 or more are best.But of course,thats alot to pay for a Birthday present!And around $249.00-350.00 for the much better units of today with precise rating level programming is for the more serious chess enthusiast.And there are even top notch units(new)that have come out that are still over a $1000,but we won't discuss those unless you have bottomless pockets!
tactical_abyss 29-Apr-13, 03:56	Deleted by tactical_abyss on 29-Apr-13, 07:09.
tactical_abyss 29-Apr-13, 07:09	Let me add that... The psychology reports have been out for years that many players "eyes"get tired more quickly staring and glaring at brighter computer screens for long periods of time as opposed to using a nice chess machine.And if the eyes get tired,so does the "learning curve interest" in many players.Then,of course,you have the players who say..."well,I can't see over the pieces and keep missing that ploy".Well,that may be,but it could also be an excuse for bad memory,since the player is moving the pieces for the computer anyway and should know where everything is!But,then units like mine(TA),some of my units move its own pieces on one or both sides of the board.But since I am looking down on the pieces or can get up and walk around the board to see the pieces at any angle,I will not use a "feeble"excuse that I cannot see over the pieces!That excuse always makes me laugh!Indeed,you can actually see BETTER in 3D and your mind can absorb and visualize the position better on a real board.Too many players today are simply brain trained or "self programmed"in one sensory line...the computer screen or the screen on their notebook or phone and would not dare try anything else...like a machine...how caveman like they are thinking!But they are simply fooling themselves!!! In cases where some players eyes get tired on a screen and others who have excuses for not being able to see over the pieces or as good in 3D using a machine...my advice would be to use a combination of both!Train your brain using 2 different "sensory"perceptions. The whole idea is to get better at the game,while finding a different way at getting entertained,spiking the chess interest,thus possibly improving your strength in the long run.Makes sense?You bet it does! For those players who simply do not take their game seriously or "underneath"without admitting it to anyone on GK or themselves...do not really want or care to improve their chess game strength,well...keep using that one sensory prop...your computer screen along with the paperback and be content,no problemo!But for those who want to spend more time using every conceivable prop like the computer screen,chess machines,vivid visual aids.....DVD sets from the GM's,different opening books on disc and then paperbacks and of course,if possible either a chess club or you friend/friends playing against you OTB....then you will be on the better road to self-improvement! In reality,I hate to tell alot of you guys this,but some players really do not want to take the time,effort and money investment to really want to improve their game.They may say that they don't need this and that bell and whistle ect ect,but most are simply lying to themselves or don't know how to go about improving or care to improve.They feel it will simply come to them over time like magic!Well at my club in NYC I can pick out 50 players that have been playing chess for over 60 years and are like 70-80 years old and are still at a rating level that is near beginner level.When I ask them about chess machines,they say,what?...Thats junk!!!Can't learn from those damm things!Or they will say a DVD?Whats that?Scrap plastic disks!And 10 minutes after that,a 12 year old comes up and beats the crap out of them on the board!!! So,its what you make of the game and how serious you take your game to improve.Investing in a good chess machine is simply one option that will never hinder,but help!

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