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 Hover OverHow often is the database updated? Just getting the initial team pairings is a pretty neat trick, though. |
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scutzer 27-Jan-20, 08:35 |
A bit off topic, but related - Request Just looking for something with the basics that I could give to someone that wants to help, but hasn't done it before. I don't have time to sit on a WebEx with them and walk them through the steps and thought probably someone had created a document/tutorial or something... If so, please send me a GK email and we can figure out how you can share it with me, if you'd be so kind. Thanks, Steve |
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scutzer 27-Jan-20, 08:49 |
Referring to the topic If you wrote this in a loop you could run this every night and extract all the player data by team over night into a database that would be kept up to date. Once this is done, the hard part is over. The rest is just writing a screen for your critieria and some queries. Unfortunately, it's been too many years for me to do such work, but I know there has to be some programmers on this site that could do this. In fact, they could probably sell it back to GK if was written in a way where it could be a "plug-in" of sort. Anyway, my 2 cents on that... still need that tutorial for my new co-captain. Thanks, Steve. |
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scutzer 27-Jan-20, 09:06 |
@tapanis I'll definitely be using it to do pairings and I look forward to additional updates. Thanks for taking the time, where were you 5 years ago Thanks, Steve |
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Dear Steve Scrutzer Sure, but why bother when sufficiently developed Gameknot programs are readily available to almost anybody --- are we trying to re-invent the wheel here? Thanks Mo |
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Making and accepting matches is half the fun , if you put the effort in 9 times out of 10 you get the match ! On our Team we can make 20 matches a day between Shane and myself easily on average , it's pretty rare we get turned down , right now we are on over 800 matches I don't think the problem is making matches , the problem is Captains as they say there is no "I" in Team , once you "get" that the ball will roll ... everybody needs to be on the same page That doesn't mean I don't find the idea of a program fascinating... but why is there a need for change ? |
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Mo The current team match creation 'wheels' are square rather than circular. Forward momentum in setting up team matches is rather labour intensive. The wheels don't need to be re-invented but a certain amount of re-designing would go a long way, especially with the input of those on the saddle. Ideally it would be GK who would improve the process. So far, it's not made it to the top of their development list. |
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@scutzer |
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Nine Times Out of Ten? 41%. And I DO put in the effort. I publish both my guy's current and 90 day average, along with the requested opponent. In order to even find teams in the first place I have to populate the team score in the advanced player search, specify the range (+50/-50) of my guy's current score, and then fling open twenty windows--of which easily half must be closed because the guy has a team score but isn't on a team. If you don't filter by team score (1,9000) your miss rate more than doubles. Of the remaining windows most don't have the summoned player listed as green. However, the team is usually big enough you can find someone available to challenge that guy--then you have to search out a second pairing. For this YOUR team is sorted by current rating on another screen (or a printed sheet--sometimes I write them on the back of an envelope). Once you do that, select your players, write up your proposal (and God help you if you write out the entire proposal but forget to check your team mates--the paragraphs you wrote are lost), THEN you find out that team is not accepting challenges for being defunct or something. Fortunately that doesn't occur all that often. Set up five challenges and four get cancelled as soon as the opposing captain accepts one because your guy hit his max which you don't know what is except through such trial and error. To be fair, of the 39 cancelled challenges four or five proposed an acceptable alternate. So my acceptance rate could actually be closer to 34/66 = 52%. |
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GK Has the 90 Day Value Some people don't look at yearly and all time highs but honestly I tend to examine the chart, timeouts, and everything when proposing matches. Some of it I gloss over--sometimes the timeouts don't matter to me. The chart (shirlmygirl) convinced me is important. Sometimes I even summon their rival list to see how my guy faired in prior games, and to whom the opponent beats or loses. Were those team game wins and fun game losses? I don't try to get too carried away--mostly I stick with the current and 90 day scores. |
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5imon I'm not even talking about a major rewrite here, just a few simple tweaks to improve the current system--tweaks that would reduced GK server overhead by virtue of the fact I'm not popping 50 pages of completely useless player IDs every time I try to arrange a single match. Now that OTHER guy has some clever additions GK should be able to implement with extra coding, and that WOULD be pretty cool especially after seeing it in operation. |
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Optimistic .. I'm on the biggest Team on GK .. we are on 835 matches we are virtually always playing over 800 games ... 4 more players have joined our Team in the last 24 hrs we get games for everybody ... period.. our players hardly ever leave ( 2 since October ... but we did also remove some serial time outers ) It's pretty easy if I'm honest I'd think I was failing my Team if 41% was my success rate .. all our players every single one prefer a fair challenge ... we know that because we talk to our guys ... Over 800 players and usually only 6 or 7 are waiting for matches .. I know you put in the effort but you told me you match on Sundays we match 24 / 7 as both Captains are on different time zones ... We may not play every team but we try to work with every Team , there are only 2 Captains I have issues with which isn't bad look at all the other fantastic Teams we get to work with I get messages from Captains all the time asking for matches or if we can increase the size of a challenge because our team are worth playing , which is why I wonder why Captains say it takes so long to pair .. I must don't get it I guess I'm sorta with GK on this if it ain't broke don't fix it ( TPM Rocks though I am a believer lol ) |
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Btw The best thing to remember in our case is that it's TEAM play ... |
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They introduce video playback in sports to speed things up , to make the right decision , but the final decision is still made by a person ! And as far as I can see slows the game down and introduces more not less arguments, as most people measure limits from a different point After awhile you start thinking I wish they'd go back to the original .. sometimes faster is less not fit for purpose However .... ÃŽm buzzing to see this in action , i'm like a big fat contradiction... omgosh just like my chess ! |
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Sunday Challenges That only 41% of the challenges I issue are accepted? Honestly I don't see how *I* would be failing the team if the number was even lower--so long as all available team members have games (and they do). We don't have any current games against Lucifer's Army--we wrapped up our last match with you back in August. We should play... I just now realized I simply tallied the total of challenges cancelled. But YOUR challenges to me withdrawn for whatever reason are also included in that list, and some of the games currently played are challenges by opposing team captains I accepted. So my calculation is flawed, though the flaws tend to cancel--41% feels like about the right ratio of challenges offered to cancelled for one reason or another. Again, I rarely issue challenges outside 50 points current or 90. Those numbers are outside my search parameters, though as noted most of the player pages summoned aren't eligible in the first place--aren't even on teams. |
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Don't forget 41% of 205 players is different than 41% of 22 players , if I had to wait our list of available players would grow ... I like to get rid of the little green dot , our players say they prefer not to wait I also may of misled you slightly, today I made 14 challenges 11 were accepted 3 never got an answer so I took them down , I think our systems must be slightly different it's probably easier for me as we have so many players I've just made another with 1 pending , but the other Captain is off line so I'll take that down , I also get frustrated making a challenge when a player showed as available but apparently sn't ! We have Team settings !!! Press the blooming button lol ðð |
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amacivn |
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John Shane is the main Captain and takes care of all the nitty gritty , without him the Team wouldn't work, I just tweak here and there ! You've hit the nail on the head mentioning an even split that is how we roll , we don't take advantage of any Team we just get you next time lol There is only 1 Team I'm aware of we don't play ( totally understandable ð ) but I'm GREAT friends with that Captain which is all that matters |
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"Don't sweat the small stuff" |
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One thing I do find annoying. |
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orkneylad |
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We challenge teams when a Captain is on line if the Captain fails to respond ( accepting or declining ) we go again ... for a new player we make more than one challenge ... you get nothing but old when you wait lol Why does anybody need a day or so to respond to a challenge ? If we all wait nobody will have games lol ð Our mantra remove the green dot ! Make the effort ! It's supposed to be fun , we do what our players want as do you |
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gameknot protocol |
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A better option would be to hide status as Joveyboy does when he's not accepting matches , if your showing on line the opposing Captain is going to assume ( terrible word ) your team is available ( the spanner in the works is me hiding my status ð) mass production ðĪ.. not sure how you work that out , 15 matches a day from over 200 players lol It's a mute point anyway Michael as you and your team always respond when on line , I'm not very impressed with teams keeping you waiting , your team on the whole make decent challenges ..which deserve a response , if everybody waited we'd never match , again most players sign up on our team to get as many matches as possible.. we can't wait we don't want to wait Multitask |
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Always <<Sending out multiple challenges when the acceptance of one of them negates the others strikes me as being irresponsible.>> It doesn't strike me that way at all. If I issue one challenge that's all I would get for that week. |
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Moot Point |
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Waiting So those challenges could sit open an entire week. After that I only cancel the old ones if I max out five new challenges. |
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I say tyres you say tires ... |
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How I Match I do agree Gameknot could do things to make matching easier. I recall hearing there used to be well over 300 teams on Gameknot, before I was around. Today, there's under 200 who are active, and the number of total teams continues to drop. I imagine if this trend continues, Gameknot will try to do something, otherwise team play won't be much of anything one day. Until then, I have a daily strategy with matching. I'm really the only one matching on my team right now. I'm amazed I've been able to keep my team of currently 118 active members above 440 matches right now. During the day, I check Gameknot fairly often most days, and I try to spend at least an hour sending a few matches to top teams on the Ladder, teams I know I can usually get a reply from by night. When night falls, I use the Advanced Player Search on players on my team who need matches the most. I have several who take 30+ games and move fast, so I'm really using the Advanced Player Search every night. I'll send matches to many teams, but I always check to see when other captains started their last match. I don't usually send if it's been a few days since their last match was started, as I don't know if they're actively interested in starting a new match at that moment in time. I usually do get replies from matches I send by doing this. Not always, but most of the time. I do wait at least 24 hours as well before I would choose to withdraw. When sending matches to any team during any point of the day, I use the current, top 90 day, and average 90 day ratings. With the current and top 90 day ratings, I try to make sure they don't go more than 20 points above the player I ask for, as well as no less than 30 points. In my opinion, this makes it easier for a fair match, without trying to take too much from the other team, while not giving them too much either. Then I make sure the average 90 day ratings are within 25 points, unless I'm having difficulty matching a player, then I'll raise that limit to 50. I also make sure the player I ask for isn't already playing my player in a match already, or has done so within the past month, except for my 2000+ rated players. The time limits then vary, depending on their speed and amount of games they take. Some of them are 3 months, others 1 year. I do this because one player, above 2000 obviously, was unhappy I put them in a match with a player they just finished a game with. This was years ago now, but I found understandable. I think I've covered just about everything with how I start matches, except for a few minor things, like how I aim for 2 player matches, for it's less to deal with and makes for more matches to complete, but I happily take any sized matches still, from any team willing to match. I've done it again, I thought I'd leave a little post but it ended up being a mile long again, but I hope that helps anyone who's interested. |
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Repeat Matches I had the same thing happen. My second highest rated player was miffed I pitted him against the same person a second match--a guy he complained took "forever" to move. So now I look through the rival list when I pit him against someone just to make sure they haven't already recently played. |
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