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winslowhightower 01-Nov-17, 00:26	"Well, that is exactly what happened to South Africa after we took control of Namibia " I think you meant to say Nambia. Sorry, that was supposed to be a funny joke.
riaannieman 01-Nov-17, 00:29	Hahahaha, it is a bit yes. I used to live there as a child. It is a beautiful country with lovely and loving people who just want to get on with life, and put the past in the past (not forget it!) and go forward. I often wish we never came back to South Africa.
winslowhightower 01-Nov-17, 00:31	I've heard some horrifying stories recently of white farmers being told to leave and then a minor famine. Do you know anything about that?
winslowhightower 01-Nov-17, 00:33	Wait, I'm sorry, that wasn't South Africa.
riaannieman 01-Nov-17, 00:39	No not there.... I will find out and make sure of that allegation. I know in Zimbabwe it is so, and there is a 'silent genocide' in South Africa, where farmers of European decent are being killed by the hundreds. Just yesterday 3 farmers were killed here. Since Friday last I counted 7 farmers murdered. Since 1994 more than 7 000 farmers of European decent has been killed, but I don't have the exact number- our official reporting mechanisms are changed almost monthly to accommodate political ideals and ambitions, and the official tally cannot be trusted anymore. I have to rely on social and public media and public websites with their own agendas and political motives and bias, so I don't trust those numbers either. Our murder rate is about 52 people a day.
winslowhightower 01-Nov-17, 00:42	Yes, It was the Zimbabwe stories I stumbled upon. Mugabe or some such a thing. Forgive my callous American self for lumping Africa together.
winslowhightower 01-Nov-17, 15:06	And now I just see this www.news24.com On Monday thousands of South Africans rallied around the farming community in nationwide protests against farm murders. The #BlackMonday campaign raised several questions about the legitimacy of farmers' concerns, the overall issue of crime in South Africa and whether farm murders are racially motivated. Scenario planner and CEO of the South African Institute of Race Relations, Frans Cronje, unpacks the issue.
mo-oneandmore 01-Nov-17, 15:19	winslow An excellent post and it did raise "questions" from the opposition and racists, but you appear to have missed the authors last paragraph in each section. In the Author's mind, there appears to be "no question" that the rally and concern for the safety and welfare of South African farmers is justified. The attack ratio against these farmers is 14/1 next to others.
riaannieman 01-Nov-17, 23:24	#BlackMonday had nothing to do with race!!!! You will not see it in the media, but there were many African people there as well. Of course the media carefully selected the photographs and camera shots that they wanted to publish to convey a certain perception. That perception is false! Our media is strictly being monitored and governed by legislation that does not allow them to portray the government in a bad light, and they comply out of fear for being targeted and victimized. Up to 40% of farm attacks involve African people as well. Don't believe everything you read! Think about it. Ask questions. Also doubt the media that has to comply with legislation and in effect has to prop up a corrupt gangster and despot who is actively involved in selling out the country and state capture by the Gupta family- of whom you should be reading in your own media as well. They are involved with major corruption in the USA and U.K. as well.
ptitroque 02-Nov-17, 00:38	@riannieman riannieman : "BlackMonday had nothing to do with race!!!!" It seems that the situation is about the same everywhere in Africa (corrupted leaders, insecurity...) For which reasons ? 1. economical reasons : misery and gigantic inequalities in those societies. 2. cultural reasons : many people in Africa do not even imagine that a government can be fair and honest - the democratic system not being old enough. 3. foreign domination : most African countries are in the hand of big companies who corrupt their leaders and, sometimes, have interest to maintain a certain Chaos. What's your opinion ?
riaannieman 02-Nov-17, 01:42	Not one of those reasons specifically for South Africa, but each one of them has some bearing on the situation here. Our misery is mostly caused by our esteemed and most honorable state president, Jacob Zuma, and his greed, corruptness and unholy affiliations with various criminals and organized crime syndicates. I am on the road now and it is difficult to type. Let me post some links and also refer you to a newly released book. www.timeslive.co.za www.dailymaverick.co.za www.amazon.com That link should take you to the book: The BIGGEST political exposé to hit South Africa, by Jacques Pauw.
riaannieman 02-Nov-17, 01:48	Ps: Our president should soon face 783 charges (at last count) for theft, corruption, state capture, tax evasion, rape, and more. It is very possible that more charges could be added..
ptitroque 02-Nov-17, 05:53	riaannieman "Jacob Zuma, and his greed, corruptness and unholy affiliations with various criminals and organized crime syndicates." The same kind of persons rule most of the African Countries whether "democratically" elected or not ? My question was : how is it that such a situation is possible (not to say common) in Africa and not in Europe ?
riaannieman 02-Nov-17, 07:56	Ahhhh..... that question should not be answered in an open forum like this. The true answer lends itself to much criticism and hostility.
stalhandske 02-Nov-17, 07:56	<how is it that such a situation is possible (not to say common) in Africa and not in Europe ?> My "theory" of that is that it is because most of Africa has not (yet) gone through the (often bloody) developments in Europe (for example), and still needs to fight for a stable society. I also think that one reason for this is in the colonialism of Africa.
dmaestro 02-Nov-17, 09:32	The sins of colonialism are totally responsible. Everywhere there was colonialism and empires we have artificial boundaries. Even in Europe we see it — the former Yugoslavia; etc. In Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia the native ethnicities were cynically divided by colomialism for expediency and exploitation. African countries are totally artificial. Local leaders were chosen for corrupt deals. When a nation is too large and divided democracy fails.
ptitroque 02-Nov-17, 09:52	dmaestro and Stal Interesting posts. I agree with you but is it sufficient to explain such a mess ? Furthermore, in Asia, in some countries which have been colonized (India or Hong-Kong, for ex.), the political system works better than in any African country. Has colonialism been different in Asia, than in Africa, maybe because the Asiatic people couldn't be "enslaved" ?
winslowhightower 02-Nov-17, 20:09	I think the only reason they need to fight for a "stable democracy" is because the outside world is giving money and weapons to the people whom they think will allow them to exploit the untapped nation of Africa most expeditiously.
dmaestro 02-Nov-17, 20:55	Colonialism and divide and conquer tactics are sufficient due as you say to slavery and theft of resources. They never intended to create stable counties
ace-of-aces 02-Nov-17, 21:14	How to defeat North Korea. youtu.be My idea is very simple. Dismantle the fence that separates the two countries. The fence was built by US to prevent N Korean invasion. The fence usefulness is way over. It creates more tension and makes N. Korea much secure and safer. The fence is heavily mined and manned by ready to shoot machine guns who dare to cross it . NK defectors will be difficult to flee into S, Korea and cross over thru this fence. Instead they have to take a long detour and flee to China first. Then into Thailand in SE Asia. From Thailand they can then fly by plane to SK. If there is no wall, they just need to cross the border very easily. I believe most NK Koreans will flee this way including soldiers. When there are no people in NK, it will be automatically united. Case solved. Germany had a similar situation before. East Germans wanted to flee to the west. Berlin wall was not difficult to cross compared to the DMZ- fence in Korea. Soviet Union no longer could control the fleeing East Germans. Besides, Russians were bankrupt. It was more costly for Soviets to continue and occupy the eastern European countries and finally they had to give up.
riaannieman 03-Nov-17, 01:15	Deleted by riaannieman on 03-Nov-17, 01:16.
riaannieman 03-Nov-17, 01:16	Still on the road today- will respond later
stalhandske 03-Nov-17, 01:27	<Has colonialism been different in Asia, than in Africa, maybe because the Asiatic people couldn't be "enslaved" ? > This is a very interesting and important question! I am hoping that Riaan may have some crucial views of this!
riaannieman 03-Nov-17, 10:47	I am still very hesitant to answer this question in an open forum. I am sure it would cause outrage, hostility and be labelled as very prejudiced. Anybody who knows me well would know that I am not prejudiced, racist or antagonistic. I prefer diplomacy, peaceful accommodation and reasoned dialogue. My answer will be controversial and confusing, because I believe that the truth has been clouded over the years to achieve political, personal and nationalist goals, Colonialism may have been the single biggest mistake- all over the world- by the European superpowers of the time: Germany, France, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, Italy and Britain. I only have some knowledge of the countries north of South Africa and Namibia. It has never been my interest to learn about African countries and their individual history. So, I will have to base my answer on South Africa, Namibia and the bit that I do know about the rest of Africa. I shall refrain from speaking about the august leaders of other countries, such as Idi Amin Dada, Robert Mugabe, Charles Taylor, Sanni Abacha, Omar Al-Bashir and Hissene Habri. I shall keep my observation about the esteemed, honorable and respected Jacob Zuma. I shall also be circumspect in my phrasing because of my position and fear of retaliation and victimization. In South Africa, the United Kingdom especially is being blamed by indigenous African people for many of our woes. Other problems are laid before the door of the descendants of the original Dutch, French and English settlers who came to South Africa. My answer to such charges, and the question by ptitroque; 02-Nov-17, 00:38 and 02-Nov-17, 05:53, is long and winded. Let us start off with what I term the general African psyche of ownership. Traditionally, land- as parcels of individually demarcated areas- with private ownership, is an alien concept. All land belongs to all people, and must be shared by everybody equally. One could graze the cattle on an especially luscious piece of veld today, and tomorrow ten other people could also have their cattle there. It could cause a fight, yes, but once the grass has been grazed everybody would move their herds along. The land is farrow again until it regenerates and the next cattle owner stumbles upon the patch of good grazing in three years. So, my observation is that for Africa, individual ownership [of land]* is still relatively new. So is the concept of individual prosperity- the accruement of money. *Deliberately not () President Zuma comes from an area where I used to work many years ago, and he used to be high up in the command of uMkhonto we Sizwe, the military arm of the current ruling party, the African National Congress (ANC), He was often called 'The Butcher' by the recruits and freedom fighters in the camps where they got their training from the Russians, Chinese and Cubans. His ambitions of personal power and riches has allegedly led him to ties with several unsavory characters. These people include- but are not limited to-: - Schabir Shaik (and family) [ en.wikipedia.org ] - The Gupta family [ en.wikipedia.org ] - Glenn Agliotti [ www.timeslive.co.za ] - Brett Kebble [ en.wikipedia.org ] - Roy Moodley [ citizen.co.za ] I can go on, but you are all welcome to Google his associations. Zuma has collected power to himself and surrounded himself with sycophants. Also he is in such deep financial trouble that without help from these unsavory associates, he will be sequestrated in short order. He singularly chases the money and will do anything and everything to collect as much of it as he can. He has violated everything the ANC stands for. The ANC is a socialist/communist orientated organization, but for a leftist, socialist and communist person he has become a most noteworthy capitalist. In the beginning the transgressions and sins were small and could be overlooked. The 'people' closed ranks about him whenever he was accused, and protected their own. He became untouchable, and to his own mind, immune from persecution and prosecution. When he became president he became the ultimate power, and abused that for his own nefarious goals. The problem was continuously exacerbated by the habitual tendency to close ranks and protect their own, and the other reason comes back to colonialism and the African psyche. Whatever he does, is in retaliation to what the colonialists did. Whatever he does, it is good and right because of the atrocities of slavery, colonialism and Apartheid. Whatever he does, is condoned and even encouraged, because his success is the success of all the African people in South Africa, and reflects on how far he (and all Africans) have come since 27 April 1994. The fact that the masses are actually poorer, financially worse off and in worse conditions than 23 years ago are ignored, made out as racist and white supremacy lies, colonial propaganda or swept under the carpet and conveniently forgotten. Most notably the outcries come from Zuma cronies and supporters, and driven by eminent companies like Bell Pottinger, KPMG and the like. History in South Africa is changing rapidly, and the roles, sufferings, [lack of]* achievements and other merits of slaves and indigenous African people are suddenly strange to me. Like that a gardener actually did the first human heart transplant in Grootte Schuur Hospital back in 1967. (en.wikipedia.org as well as www.theguardian.com). Riiiight, and Wikipedia can be believed for everything........ *Again, deliberately not () "....how is it that such a situation is possible (not to say common) in Africa and not in Europe ?...." In Europe such a collection of personal power will never be tolerated. Even their own political allies would not turn a blind eye or close ranks to protect such excesses and corruption, and besides, the public will bring such a person to a fall long before similar events unfurl. As an example the French and Russian Revolution changed the balance of power for ever. In South Africa (and Africa) those revolutions have yet to occur- the revolutions that has occurred on this continent does not compare with those of Europe at all. We have yet to face them in Africa. Politically slavery has had little influence on South African politics, except as a hollow coin to be flipped during political rallies, to charge people emotionally in the run-up to elections, or to cause an inferior and guilt complex in South Africans of European descent.
stalhandske 03-Nov-17, 21:51	Thank you Riaan for an excellent survey. One interesting point is that current African leaders use "slavery" and "colonialism" as "tools" for doing almost anything they want. I think Europe is different just because there never was real colonialism, or if we count the Roman Empire, or Napoleon's Empire, or Nazi Germany, then Europe fought those already. So in that sense we in Europe are "historically ahead". Ptitroque's question still remains, however, about where Asia stands in this respect. Colonialism was fought away there, too, but the end result seems more stable than in Africa. Why?
the-sigularity 03-Nov-17, 21:57	stal writes <<I don't think that is fair. This was a work site accident and just happened to be a site allegedly involved in the nuclear program. Surely, the victim workers had nothing to do with that>> The workers at a nuclear program that worked where nuclear bombs are being tested to destroy most of the inhabitants of this planet, whether they were paid, or just following orders in my opinion, are the same as murderers. Unless we would rather hope that two hundred workers involved in trying to destroy the world are better saved, instead of two hundred million people or more. During war, many soldiers are killed, I do not know if you read my poem on the Battle of Guadalcanal where thousands of Americans lost their lives. The reason they and many enemy soldiers were killed, was because some world leader decided that it would be good to kill Americans. If a murderer trying to kill innocent people is killed in the attempt, I do not celebrate, but I think it is justice. I hope any person, or group of persons that are trying to kill innocent people are killed before they succeed in doing so, whether they are just following orders, or getting paid to do so. Maybe some may not agree with the above, but then I think if they cannot see the logic, these people are missing something.
stalhandske 03-Nov-17, 22:01	<The workers at a nuclear program that worked where nuclear bombs are being tested to destroy most of the inhabitants of this planet, whether they were paid, or just following orders in my opinion, are the same as murderers. > That is a very harsh and insensitive statement. How would these workers necessarily even know what project they were "digging for"? Far less having any possibility to object.
the-sigularity 03-Nov-17, 22:16	Workers in a nuclear site That is where nuclear bombs are being tested. Let's be realistic here. If those people are working in a place like that, we can be sure they are not dumb. We can be sure they know what bombs are for, and it would be naïve to pretend that they do not know what their leader has been threatening to do. These workers have to have access to a lot of sensitive information that has been published. They also have to have security clearance before being allowed to participate in such a delicate assignment. To think that they do not know what, these bombs are for, and why they are being tested, is something I find very difficult to accept. Would anyone here allow a person that is working to assemble a weapon to kill his family or even friends, to not be disturbed merely on the excuse that he is just a worker, and must be left to complete his work, and carry out his intention? I think not.
stalhandske 03-Nov-17, 22:17	<If those people are working in a place like that, we can be sure they are not dumb.> But how do you know that they knew they were "working in a place like that"?
stalhandske 03-Nov-17, 22:19	<a person that is working to assemble a weapon to kill his family or even friends> You seem to have missed the point altogether. These workers were working with moving land masses etc, not making weapons!!
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