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From	Message
winslowhightower 23-Jan-18, 23:16	Is there a conspiracy? Will the truth come out? Thing's are looking pretty strange around here.
stalhandske 23-Jan-18, 23:22	can you be more specific? For the general reader of threads your contribution is a mystery.
winslowhightower 23-Jan-18, 23:29	I forget that most people don't follow the fascinating developments coming out of the USA in the last year. So, it all started when Seth Rich was murdered. Wait, it started way before that. Fine, I'll just keep it to the most recent events. It looks as if there may have been a conspiracy to clear Hillary Clinton of any wrongdoing and frame Trump for Russian collusion. That would have worked great except Hillary didn't win. Now we are finding out all of these bizarre details that indicate there may have been some grand conspiracy. This sums it up pretty well: www.youtube.com We'll find out if any of this is true eventually, I believe.
brigadecommander 24-Jan-18, 04:58	stalh this is false conspiracy crap. ;en.wikipedia.org. And beneth our dignity to give it more then a laugh. These theories abound in the right-wing loony bubble. Like 911,or no children were killed in the sandy hook school murders. ETC.The list goes on and on. Just vile crap. Plain and simple.
ptitroque 24-Jan-18, 05:48	conspiracy theories There are probably political manoeuvres and alliances to discredit Trump and political manoeuvres to discredit HC and political manoeuvres to keep Trump in might and so on... It's part of the democratic process (especially in the US where the various lobbies and sects are more powerful than in any other Western Country) It has nothing to do with a conspiracy.
stalhandske 24-Jan-18, 06:03	I agree with BC. The video is strongly biased in one direction. It is not a sum-up, but a single ultra right-wing opinion. I wish evidence would be presented at any point such serious charges are made. I have argued in favour of Director Comey's decision in another club - I think he did a very serious and thorough job in a very difficult case.
softaire 24-Jan-18, 07:05	Since 90% of the media is biased against Trump, that side of the story needs to be told by somebody, somehow. Wouldn't you rather hear BOTH sides and be able to make your own decision rather than simply hearing one side and being told what they say is "the truth"? From what is being said (where it can be said) there seems to be evidence that the video speaks the truth. Of course, time will tell and we will see if more "proof" actually comes out or not. I'm betting it will... but we need to wait and see.
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 07:33	Conspiracy Theory youtu.be Both sides claim that the other side is conspiring and vice versa pn each other. So far, there is no definite proof resulting in the arrest and conviction of the offender. Softy is correct that how can we trust either GOP or Democrat in these conspiracies. American voters have to make their own judgments in these matters. The alternative is to look for neutral source of opinion. I believe BBC's opinion on conspiracy theories appear to be well balanced and neutral since it it discussed on both sides of the issue. If you have time watch the above youtube video.
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 08:42	Trump's Dossier is a total fabrication The Dossier was started by none other then GOPs to dump Trump from the presidential race. It was indeed a ruse to collect all the bad things about Trump by crooked HRC in collusion with unscrupulous Democrats to defeat Trump. It backfired. First of all, even the GOPs recognized that the dossier was a collection of garbage and would be a great harm to GOPs if the American voters knew about the truth. So, GOP abandoned this sinister dossier scheme. The British spy started this dossier. The spy can do anything for money. Crooked HRC picked up this abandoned trash to attack Trump by hitting under the waistline. They spent 12 million dollars on the British spy and Fusion GPS to collect mounds of Trash again. FBI, DOJ and Obama colluded with HRC and gave permission to wiretap Trump's tower. Watch out folks. Obama-HRC-DOJ-FBI collusion fiasco will be much worse than Nixon's Watergate scandal. The truth will come out. American voters will demand justice. My fair and square are based on Winslow's youtu.be Thanks Winslow for your righteous contribution.
stalhandske 24-Jan-18, 08:58	softaire I understand your view, but first of all I am skeptical about your view that 90% of the media is biased against President Trump. In the negative sense. Have you thought at all of the possibility that it is because of Trump's behaviour and decisions? Secondly, I watched only the beginning of the interview that Winslow posted, but that was enough. The guy was "dead-certain" about Director Comey being a crook (more or less), and I have happened to follow that part quite in some detail. I strongly disagree, and I am not a democrat (nor a republican). Comey concluded that whilst what HRC had done with regard to the e-mail issue was very bad, it did (in his opinion) not cross the barrier to being a crime. I trust his assessment to be right.
stalhandske 24-Jan-18, 09:13	Name-calling in Fiat Lux <It was indeed a ruse to collect all the bad things about Trump by crooked HRC in collusion with unscrupulous Democrats to defeat Trump.> I would suggest that you stop that naming of Ms. Clinton. This is a Club where we don't accept such epithets - especially since there is no evidence to support it. I have also suggested Members to stop name-calling President Trump.
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 09:45	FBI needs overhaul. FBI of USA is not Russian Putin's KGB but the recent FBI activities are similar to that of KGB who favors Putin to keep him in power. Power and money corrupts people including the law enforcement officers. It benefits both parties. Putin was a senior KGB official before he became president and prime minister of Russia. KGB will not investigate or do anything that will harm Putin who will use KGB spy apparatus to suppress and destroy the dissidents and opponents. Unlike Stalin who completely controlled KGB and could do anything from killings to exile in Gulags, current KGB is more sophisticated. They cannot commit obvious crimes which the world can easily detect and condemn them. FBI is now like a fox guarding the chicken coup. This is not an exaggeration. For example, at the eve of the presidential election, voters would like to know about criminal examination of the leaked Clinton emails so that they can make the right decision on who they should vote. Voters have the rights to know. As you already know, Comey's reply was, " HRC made a terrible mistake but she did not commit any crime." I will give you an example of giving speeding tickets to motorists by the cops who have no responsibility to make a judgment that the motorists commit the crime of speeding. Whether one is guilty or not will be decided by judiciary, that is at the court. If you are not satisfied with the cops or FBI's allegations, you can contest at the court. The analogy is similar. Comey should present the findings to DOJ- Loretta Lynch at that time. She could then decide whether to indict the suspect or not. Comey in collusion with DOJ sidesteps all those legitimate due process of law. My point is that I suspect some collusion of FBI agents and HRC.
stalhandske 24-Jan-18, 09:55	Comey presented his assessment to Congress, as was required of him. He had the right and in fact the duty to assess the case. It was not his fault that it was not taken up by a Judge or a Prosecutor.
ptitroque 24-Jan-18, 10:14	FBI interference in policy ??? Wether it is true or not, what's new, in this story of interference of FBI ? Wasn't it already the case in the times of Hoover ? Of course, it is said that he interfered in favor of the reps.
softaire 24-Jan-18, 10:23	Stalh When I say that 90 % of the media is biased against Trump, I mean that it has been reported that 90 % of the stories reported by the media are biased against Trump. I don't know if that means numerically if 90 % of the media is against him... only that 90 % of the stories published about him are negative. "Secondly, I watched only the beginning of the interview that Winslow posted..." So you can ascertain, without bias, after watching only the beginning of the interview that what is being said is fictitious and not worthy of consideration? You can rule out the entire narrative and then not need to consider the many other Senators, representatives, and other news sources that are saying the same things? Collectively they have no merit? The idea that there is possible collusion in the upper ranks of the CIA, DOJ, FBI to cause a duly elected, Democratically elected President of the United States to be impeached and denied office is so impossible in your mind that you simply rule it out-of-bounds and absurd? Despite the actual evidence and the circumstantial evidence so far presented, you determine it is not worth pursuing?
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 10:25	Comey did not present everything to Congress. He leaked some information which was detrimental to Trump to the press after he was fired. Besides, GOP establishment did not like Trump and would like to dump him. Nobody including Trump himself believe that he would win the election. So, why should they waste time investigating HRC's emails and other wrong doings ? They believe that all of HRC's sins or wrongdoings would be wiped clean, once she becomes the POTUS and then she can focus the attention to destroy Trump. The problem is that Trump won against all odds. It is clear for me that DOJ -Lynch was colluding with HRC because he did not pursue any legal actions against her. Although we don't know exactly what they were talking or colluding, she was also seen talking confidentially with Obama at airport tarmac away from reporters but it was caught in the picture.
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 10:55	Name calling in GK Citing my message, Stal advised to stop name calling, but look at the following message posted by Trump hater. There's nothing new name calling in my message which I started or invented. We are like innocent bystanders who were involved in fighting by the two parties. ----------------------------------- Hypocrite? Yes, but mostly a lying, pugnacious, philandering, colliduding, greedy, abusive and ignorant low life who lacks compassion, diplomacy, empathy and the ability to make coherent sentences. Plus he’s a total jerk. ========== One or both sides are using the following profane words. Liar Hypocrite SOB Idiot Total Jerk Shithole Crooked Hillary Racist Groper. etc. Just to name a few. The list is not exhausted. Trust in me. I don't like Trump's language. I can discuss from both sides of the coin. If we remain silent, the problems will not go away. No matter how the problem is sensitive, we can tackle and communicate it in a civilized manner to exchange our different and opposite view points.
softaire 24-Jan-18, 12:59	More Detail on the coming, pending FBI/DOJ storm. The Russian collusion investigation, spearheaded by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, was supposed to bring an end to the Trump presidency by now. It wasn’t meant to drag on for months and months on end, still in want of ‘smoking gun’ evidence to do in the presidency. Things aren’t getting any better for the FBI, especially in terms of optics. One FBI agent, recruited and then let go by the Mueller team, Pete Strzok, was hesitant to even join the investigation because he was concerned that there’s ‘no big there-there.’ In other words, it smacked of a wild good chase, which is exactly what it turned out to be. Even more disturbing are the texts between Strzok and his mistress Lisa Page, an FBI lawyer, speaking almost in crime novel fashion about setting up a “secret society” to oppose President Trump. See the entire interview below: en-volve.com
chaz- 24-Jan-18, 13:22	softy... ...you're right, we need to watch how these 'developments' play out. And, undoubtedly, there will be some surprises and yet further untoward evidence pro/con to these events. But, on the other hand, since we know very little about what Mueller knows or what information he has legitimately accumulated, it remains just as disturbing to consider the implications of 'defections' from the Trump camp, now perhaps including cabinet members ...and how this will play out as well. How much of all this drama will have unintended consequences?
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 13:31	Courtesy of softy. Who are the real crimnals ? The following is the message from softy's link. Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsealed FISA Court Ruling Shows 85% of Obama’s FBI and DOJ 704-5 FISA Searches Were Illegal and Illegally Provided to Government Outsiders (Gateway Pundit) – A Report was released in April of 2017 that received no publicity until recently. The report was a ruling on the results of an investigation or audit into FISA searches made by Obama’s FBI and DOJ during Obama’s time in office. The report shows Obama’s FBI and DOJ participated in widespread criminal searches and criminal sharing of data with non authorized entities outside of government. On April 26, 2017, an unsealed FISA Court Ruling unveiled a number of criminal activities that Barack Obama’s FBI and DOJ participated in during his time in office. The report to date received little attention. Now interest is brewing due to the recent actions of Congress and the report that is expected to be released in the upcoming weeks. The FISA Court Ruling shows widespread abuse of the FISA mandate. According to the report, Obama’s FBI and DOJ performed searches on Americans that were against their 4th Amendment rights. This went on for years. One paragraph in the report states that 85% of the Section 704 and 705(b) FISA searches made during this time were non-compliant with applicable laws and therefore criminal. FISA 705 warrants deal with US citizens outside of the country. In addition, the report cites that at the same time that Obama’s DOJ and FBI were illegally searching Americans against their rights and unbeknownst to them, Obama’s FBI was providing this information to outside contractors who had no business or legal cause or claim the information. The level of corruption within Obama’s FBI and DOJ is shocking. To date no one has been charged with crimes or is in jail as a result of the many crimes committed by this group of hoodlums
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 13:49	Mueller's witchhunt will continue until Trump is impeached. How much of all this drama will have unintended consequences? ---- Mueller, HRC and Democrats are digging their own graves. Mueller cannot simply let it go if he can't find any tangible evidence to impeach Trump. It can drag on for months until the end of the year when midterm elections will begin. If he can prolong the investigation, then his investigation might help Democrats to have more seats in both Houses. IMHO, this will backfire. American voters will do the opposite if it is really a witch hunt. Democrats and FBI cronies are trying to cover up their crimes. As long as Mueller is in charge of the Russian involvement investigation, they think they have the upper hand. They are wrong. Therefore, the unintended consequences IMHO will be, instead of Trump being impeached, HRC and FBI cronies will be locked up in jail.
softaire 24-Jan-18, 14:13	Chaz "it remains just as disturbing to consider the implications of 'defections' from the Trump camp, now perhaps including cabinet members... " HUH? What are you talking about? I have heard nothing about "defections from the Trump Camp". Please explain.
softaire 24-Jan-18, 14:14	ACE Great posts... thanks for the backup!
the-sigularity 24-Jan-18, 14:18	ace Do you have any reliable evidence that Mueller is on the same side with HRC and Democrats? After all, it is the republicans that are responsible for selecting the person that replaced James Comey. What you write is not really making too much sense at all. It is like what trump is when he calls all news fake news. What he would like is for all Americans to just read his twits, and believe everything he writes. The FBI is an agency that forms cases on facts, not illusions that can be discarded easily. Sometimes I think that people that love trump are so distraught, that they will try anything to convince themselves that he is "god like".
apatzer 24-Jan-18, 14:34	Lol Jail lmao. Jail is for the common man.. or peasant. Trump won't go to jail. Hillary won't go to jail. You don't throw your prized minions in jail. You might have to remove them from a position. Occasionally bit when that happens they are rewarded way beyond what that previous position played. This is only opium for the masses. You all will be arguing till doomsday. Meanwhile Goldman Sachs will continue to be put real government. Hillary kisses Goldman's add and Trump kisses Goldman's add. Wake up people.
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 15:10	easy-win I don't have definite evidence that Mueller is a Trojan horse implanted by HRC and Democrats to investigate the Russian collusion with Trump. This is my speculation until it is proven otherwise. There is now circumstantial evidence that some FBI agents are colluding with them, if you can check the links provided by Winslow and softy. Mueller is a friend of Comey. He was also in charge of FBI when the Uranium one deal was made. Did he know anything about any national security breach when this deal was made? Is he aware of any security risks posed by HRC's leaked emails ? So far his investigations are one sided and biased to incriminate on Trump only. If he is unbiased his investigation should be non partisan on both parties. We can speculate but ultimate decision of whether guilty or not is made by our judiciary system, the court. The alternative theory of why do GOP allow Democrat's man, Mueller to perform the investigation ? I think GOPs set up a trap. GOPs are not naïve. The longer they can observe Mueller's actions, they can definitely point out his inconsistencies, if he is not truthful. I believe that is the name of the game. I am sure that some GOP members would suggest not to fire Mueller because it can backfire. Trump can be accused of obstruction of justice and the voters will believe so. So, let Mueller continue his phony sham investigation. Finally, the truth shall make him free. If Mueller is a real wolf, he cannot wear the sheep skin for long to disguise himself.
ace-of-aces 24-Jan-18, 16:06	Can Trump or Hillary go to jail for serious crimes ? IMHO, nobody is above the law if one of them commit serious crime and therefore either of them can go to jail if they are found guilty of serious crimes. For example, if one commits serious crimes such as murder or terrorist activities proven beyond reasonable doubt. If Trump colluded with Russian for money and gave away the nuclear secrets or colluded with them to defeat HRC, I believe he deserves jail sentence. Bill Clinton was impeached for lying that he did not have sex with an intern. He was not even removed from office, let alone he went to jail. Nixon was going to be impeached but he resigned before he was impeached and convicted. He was not directly involved in Watergate scandal. The only crime he committed was he kept secret and covered up the Watergate burglary and pretended that he knew nothing about it. He was pardoned. I believe it was a right thing to do. Having said that let us compare the two scenarios, Nixon's Watergate scandal and Obama's wiretapping of Trump tower. During the time of Watergate scandal, there was no good internet service. Burglars or thieves have to go directly to the victim's place to break in and steal money, property or information. With the advent of internet, robbers and thieves need not burglarize and break in. Criminals only need to know how to hack the victim's computer and break in. Suffice to say that there are now millions of internet victims who lost their money or valuable information this way. After 911 Patriot act was enacted to eavesdrop or wiretap on terrorist activities to prevent their further attacks. It is illegal to use on opposition political party for political gains but Obama broke the rule. Citing national security risk issue, he allowed FBI to wiretap Trump's tower. General Flynn was caught talking to Russian ambassador. Talking to a Russian is not a crime but he lied that he did not talk which is a crime. He was fired. Wiretapping of Trump's tower is not really a crime but the FBI shared the information with the private contractor Fusion GPS for further investigation. This is a crime because Fusion GPS is not a federal agency and without any security clearance. My point is that compared to Nixon, did Obama know anything about FBI's illegal activities ?If so, Why did he give permission to wiretap Trump's tower illegally ? If Obama knew that wiretapping of Trump's tower was illegal, he should not remain silent similar to Nixon's cover up. He should immediately report to law enforcement agencies leading to due process of law. Obama should go to jail if he is part and parcel of this criminal activities.
stalhandske 24-Jan-18, 20:09	softaire <Despite the actual evidence and the circumstantial evidence so far presented, you determine it is not worth pursuing?> I have not considered the "evidence" against Obama; I was only discussing the "evience" against Comey. You guys have a tendency to mixed up all those things and make a huge conspiracy out of them. Since you think there is so much more important evidence in that link, I will hear it through and report. I just stopped earlier because the very beginning showed a deeply biased opinion of a case that I do know something about (The Comey/FBI/e-mail matter), and an opinion without a shred of evidence.
stalhandske 24-Jan-18, 20:11	ace <Citing my message, Stal advised to stop name calling, but look at the following message posted by Trump hater.> If you read that message to the end, you'll see that I included name-calling of President Trump!
softaire 24-Jan-18, 20:40	Stalh You allow compious posts that are name-calling in the extreme against President Trump. You have not had the balls to confront LS, or DM, or BC about it. The others here are more polite than these guys. At least, fess up that you do not confront them as you do others.
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