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mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 11:33	Great teachers: how does one rate them? Easy question to answer... Grades. If your students fail to meet standards, one is NOT a great teacher. I knew plenty of teachers who purposefully took jobs in low performing schools... Do ya know why? The expectations were... LOW. Many of these teachers would claim that they wanted to work in the socially, financially disadvantaged districts as to "give the students a shot!" What they really wanted was a lack of accountability and to boast at dinner parties, "I'm a teacher!" How do you rate a great teacher? Grades. The rest is fluff for the sensitive.
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 11:41	Certainly Great teachers do more than simply produce content proficient students, but THAT is the benchmark... If one does not reach that basic criteria, they have not performed their duty. When a teacher boasts of their excellence at said profession, a quick google search can reveal the facts awful quickly.
shamash 13-Mar-14, 13:05	plus, you can measure teachers by their impact Plus you can measure great teachers by their students: Aristotle – and Alexander the Great, Alcuin -- and Charlemagne, Anne Sullivan – and Helen Keller, George Pierce Baker -- and Eugene O’Neill. Perhaps this notion is a tad more controversial, but I believe you can also measure great teachers by their impact on their countries: Solon and Athens, Henry VIII and England, Ivan the Terrible and Russia, Napoleon and France, Mao Tse-Tung and China, plus two who actually were school teachers as well as effective leaders: Golda Meir and Israel, Lyndon Johnson and the U.S.A.
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 13:27	Shamash, I was impacted by teachers in high school that I never had as instructors... Simple 'hallway' interaction and cafeteria encounters continue to be memorable as they had a positive impression. They were top echelon instructors, exceeding their stated goals. I hear what you're saying, though. I take issue with 'teachers' claiming to be "great" when the data suggests otherwise. There are very, very few great teachers in the public school system... They exist, but they are few in numbers. They don't go around saying they are "great, excellent, etc" either. The results do the talking... Grades.
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 13:39	My girlfriend is a great teacher. She is a high school business teacher and has produced 9 students who were accepted into The Wharton School of Business at UPENN... She has The Chops, yet she never claims to be great. She works day and night on her trade. Day and Night, nonstop! She created a business club at her school and they compete in yearly competitions that take them national. She and her group have won 1st place, twice. RESULTS. She has NO time for constant extraneous leisurely activity throughout the day, such as being an opinionated blowhard on a chess forum. This should tell us something. That girl stays at school until 6 pm, M-F. She is working until 9 or later every night as well. That is a TEACHER. So many suckers in these parts praise anyone who simply say, "I love my students, blah blah blah." When I was a teacher, I was not playing club agitator at GK, I can assure you... I was busting my ass. Let's face it, we have many slackers posing as teachers. It's the title they desire. I desired the title too. I would love/relish/orgasm when someone asked me what I did when I was teaching middle school... I was waiting for the opportunity for someone to say, "Wow, that's so noble!" I was fishing for praise. I see that right here at GK. I can spot it easily, because I was casting from the same pole.
thumper 13-Mar-14, 18:28	www.youtube.com
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 20:24	Gem I quote: "While I do enjoy math, I have also taught writing, leadership, health and Spanish. Plus chess and guitar. For me, it is about the student first and foremost. The subject is important, of course, else why teach it? But it is secondary to helping form young minds into thoughtful adults. The subject is not why I teach...my passion is from inspiring young minds. Some fools think it is all about grades and test scores! Of course I want my students to get good grades and score well on tests. But that is not why I am a teacher. And some of my greatest successes never got good grades or high test scores." -This is worth showing to people. This is worthy of national discussion. So easy... The subject is "secondary.". Oh my God.
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 20:38	Deleted by Gameknot.com on 24-Mar-14, 14:59.
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 20:52	Deleted by Gameknot.com on 24-Mar-14, 14:59.
thumper 13-Mar-14, 21:09	It seems a dearly held mantra; "I just want to teach the kids how to think." That sounds noble on the surface, to some, but if you look more closely, not so much. Teaching a young impressionable mind HOW to think is only a short step from teaching them WHAT to think. We can see the results of this 'HOW to think mantra' pouring out of the public education system and it's not boding well.
mrmarmalade 13-Mar-14, 21:22	I taught in the disadvantaged districts too. We had ENORMOUS leeway in the classroom. Transitioning to the 'A' districts was equivalent to Pop Warner football and the NFL. One cannot browse past an educated parent with, "Math is secondary to developing young minds form," or whatever the Hell he wrote. Seriously, this belongs in the press.
tat3225 14-Mar-14, 09:21	I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject at all, in fact I know almost nothing, but the current standards at schools seem way too low in my opinion. Im not sure that setting the bar so low builds confidence. That said, the parents must play a role in a students success so it seems like it boils down to the question of who is responsible for a child's education? I think the parents should be and the role they choose to play in a public school is a part of that. This goes hand in hand with good teaching, I assume, because (to Mr.M's point) a good teacher probably should be able to inspire confidence and interest regardless of a child's home situation............ But again this is based on very little knowledge.
mrmarmalade 14-Mar-14, 09:52	Tat, You're carrying twin girls... One day, they will attend high school and assigned a Math teacher... Imagine this is the thought process of their instructor: "While I do enjoy math, I have also taught writing, leadership, health and Spanish. Plus chess and guitar. For me, it is about the student first and foremost. The subject is important, of course, else why teach it? But it is secondary to helping form young minds into thoughtful adults. The subject is not why I teach...my passion is from inspiring young minds. Some fools think it is all about grades and test scores! Of course I want my students to get good grades and score well on tests. But that is not why I am a teacher. And some of my greatest successes never got good grades or high test scores." -You know plenty. If you have specific questions, just ask. My paternal grandfather was a Principal and grandmother was a Science teacher. I have a few years under my belt as well. Of course, you live in the suburban Boston area, I believe, so a teacher like the above would not be able to attain a job. Not a career, I remind you... A JOB, for him.
tat3225 14-Mar-14, 11:06	Well I already have the girls' lives planned out so I hope that they don't decide to have an opinion or something. (Who am I kidding!)   Anyway, it definitely seems like school systems vary wildly based on location. Hence my confusion over federal standards. But that subject seems like a can of worms. But regarding grades, it seems impossible to ignore the fact that grades are important when it comes to college applications.
mrmarmalade 15-Mar-14, 05:19	Mr. H Adds this, deleting the other message, thinking this one is a better depiction: "thinking or content? Well... both. I am curious. Which do you think is more important? Math skills or critical thinking? I teach both....but ... tell me, when was the last time you needed to solve a quadratic equation, use the Pythagorean theorem, or used SOHCAHTOA? When was the last time you needed to think critically? This is why I prioritize thinking over math, or any other subjects. Currently I am I Yangon, Myanmar. I am staying with a good friend, also a math teacher. He has been teaching at an International school here for four years. In fact, it is the Embassy School... his students are children of Ambassadors and millionaires... super high level kids with demanding parents who expect their kids to go to expensive private universities in the states. In fact, 95% of them do so. I went to his school yesterday and helped teach his 9th grade geometry class and his 12th grade advanced calculus class. It was stunning to me how similar it was to my school back home. The kids make the same mistakes and need the same help. And Mark, my friend, and the director of the school both agreed with me that critical thinking is what the kids need. Math (or English or history) are important. But kids are more important. The teachers who think content is the most important thing are missing the boat. In college, I think this is valid. At lower levels, it is not. Teach a kid to think, to learn, to find knowledge, and they will learn what they need when they need it. Focus on content, and not the student, and kids will possibly learn the content, but nothing else. There are many, many failed teachers... people who could not succeed in the classroom because they do not know how to teach.... many or most of them have an excellent grasp of content. This does not make them teachers... that is why they failed as teachers. Of course, many of them are quick to critique teachers. Monday morning quarterbacks and armchair generals." -I quote this now to revisit later. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mr. H.
mrmarmalade 15-Mar-14, 07:04	Tekoah, You are a mathematics professor at the collegiate level. I'm sure you see plenty of students entering college with abysmal math skills (dare I say, "critical thinking" abilities). I'm not trying to NAIL one person in particular as the mindset of many high school educators is misguided. I'm interested in your perspective on the following two quotes, taken directly from a high school math teacher and would appreciate your thoughts and experiences. I think these direct comments need examination and inspection on a national level. "While I do enjoy math, I have also taught writing, leadership, health and Spanish. Plus chess and guitar. For me, it is about the student first and foremost. The subject is important, of course, else why teach it? But it is secondary to helping form young minds into thoughtful adults. The subject is not why I teach...my passion is from inspiring young minds. Some fools think it is all about grades and test scores! Of course I want my students to get good grades and score well on tests. But that is not why I am a teacher. And some of my greatest successes never got good grades or high test scores." & "thinking or content? Well... both. I am curious. Which do you think is more important? Math skills or critical thinking? I teach both....but ... tell me, when was the last time you needed to solve a quadratic equation, use the Pythagorean theorem, or used SOHCAHTOA? When was the last time you needed to think critically? This is why I prioritize thinking over math, or any other subjects. Currently I am I Yangon, Myanmar. I am staying with a good friend, also a math teacher. He has been teaching at an International school here for four years. In fact, it is the Embassy School... his students are children of Ambassadors and millionaires... super high level kids with demanding parents who expect their kids to go to expensive private universities in the states. In fact, 95% of them do so. I went to his school yesterday and helped teach his 9th grade geometry class and his 12th grade advanced calculus class. It was stunning to me how similar it was to my school back home. The kids make the same mistakes and need the same help. And Mark, my friend, and the director of the school both agreed with me that critical thinking is what the kids need. Math (or English or history) are important. But kids are more important. The teachers who think content is the most important thing are missing the boat. In college, I think this is valid. At lower levels, it is not. Teach a kid to think, to learn, to find knowledge, and they will learn what they need when they need it. Focus on content, and not the student, and kids will possibly learn the content, but nothing else. There are many, many failed teachers... people who could not succeed in the classroom because they do not know how to teach.... many or most of them have an excellent grasp of content. This does not make them teachers... that is why they failed as teachers. Of course, many of them are quick to critique teachers. Monday morning quarterbacks and armchair generals."
mrmarmalade 15-Mar-14, 08:19	I just found this job opening from a website provided by user Obsteve... www.act2cam.com "Jobs Salary: £5 p/h 30 hours per week Where North Shields, Studio B3, Linskill Centre, Linskill Terrace, North Shields, NE30 2AY Application deadline: 21st February 2014 Contract: 12 month contract Qualification: NVQ Level 2- Community Arts Administration Entry requirements: GCSE grades A*-C in mathematics, English and ICT" -NOTICE the MATH requirements for employment. It appears grade DO in FACT have some bearing on opportunity, as much as we'd love to simply dote all over our students with love. Thank you, Steve.
mrmarmalade 15-Mar-14, 09:06	"interesting Just spent 30 minutes talking to the principal of the IB Embassy in school in Yangon. She agreed with me. Math is very important, but critical thinking and problem solving are more so. I specifically asked her this question about content vs. student growth and thinking skills... Lol... she offered me a job. I told her I am not ready to commit." -Please, take the job. You're actually bragging about a job offer in Burma... One gem after another.
mrmarmalade 15-Mar-14, 09:13	You deserve to be held accountable by the American people. You are front page news. Our public schools need educators, not pseudo-intellectual, self identified philosophers.
mrmarmalade 15-Mar-14, 09:39	Obsteve writes, "Teaching" has got such a bad name, I think rather than reject it, we should reclaim the word. You cannot teach till you are blue in the face without your students learning. That would, in my view, not actually be teaching! Teaching is not a bad word and teachers are not bad people! However, there seems to be a steadily growing anti-teaching movement in USA You can't teach without someone learning, though you can learn without teaching. I see teaching as the effective structuring of learning. Nothing bad about it at all!" -Nobody is making this argument. Certainly not I. I have the utmost respect for the profession as I can validate that it was the hardest job I've ever held, bar none. It requires a diverse set of intricate skills; most are not up for the job. Most are not prepared and/or dedicated enough either. "Teaching" has NOT gotten a bad name. Poor "teachers" have gotten that name, deservedly so.

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