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From	Message
cplusplus11 06-Jun-14, 09:37	17.Bxe7 Bxe7 looks better than 17.Bg3 Nxg3 18.fxg3
penguin_ 07-Jun-14, 09:03	I agree with Bxe7 - What saith thee bigpeta? What you thinking bigpeta?
bigpeta 10-Jun-14, 08:27	Bxe7 Yes i agree that looks the best. btw if i dont post for a while then assume i am having health difficulties and go on without me.
baddeeds 10-Jun-14, 16:10	17.Bxe7
penguin_ 10-Jun-14, 16:20	Nxe7 or Qxe7 ? I prefer Nxe7 opens up the R.
cplusplus11 10-Jun-14, 16:25	Nxe7 Qxe7 allows d5 displacing the c6-Knight, which Nxe7 prevents.
penguin_ 10-Jun-14, 16:42	Yes I just realized that forget Nxe7 After posting I realized that and came back in to delete my post before anyone saw it. Too slow I guess.
phyrexianrook 10-Jun-14, 19:14	Nxe7 Nxe7 is the better option, with future plans of Nf6, and then Ned5 to blockade the weak IQP.
bigpeta 10-Jun-14, 20:42	Nxe7 gets my vote as well.
baddeeds 11-Jun-14, 07:24	17...Nxe7
bigpeta 12-Jun-14, 01:14	move 18 Ne5 gets my vote. building a strong centre with the option of Ng6 joining the attack on the K defense.
penguin_ 12-Jun-14, 09:04	Ne5 works for me I'm good with Ne5
baddeeds 14-Jun-14, 07:38	18.Ne5
penguin_ 14-Jun-14, 10:04	Nc3 to dislodge whites N So what does everyone think of Nc3?
bigpeta 14-Jun-14, 14:03	@penguin I think you mean Nc6. and if you do then that simply loses to Qxh5?? My suggestions is Nf6. This gets the N out of the line of attack, gets it back into the game and covers h7 which the white B is aiming at. A little more aggressive is Nf4 giving the N lots of places to go.
penguin_ 14-Jun-14, 15:36	@bigpeta Sorry I did mean Nc6 which sets up an exchange of N's. Trying to get white to either exchange it's N or pull back. However I see the Qxh5 problem. I do like Nf4 with the idea of a possible follow up of Nf5 and then Qg5.
phyrexianrook 14-Jun-14, 16:39	Nf6 gets my vote. Hi guys. I vote for Nf6, it's a little more on the conservative side, but black doesn't have to play too hastily here. Black really wants a knight on d5, and a knight on f6 backing it up. If the bishop had stayed on b7 then Nf4 would be more effective as it's hitting the g2 square twice, alas we moved it to cover the weak diagonal from f1-a6. This has it's own benefits as it's preventing white from developing the queen and getting a tempo from the cheap threat of mate after Qd3. Still, the quiet Nf6, with the intention of Ned5 gets my vote.
baddeeds 16-Jun-14, 08:03	Deleted by baddeeds on 16-Jun-14, 08:21.
baddeeds 16-Jun-14, 08:25	Actually I almost posted it, but might have misread the votes again. @bigpeta: Was your vote Nf6, or Nf4 I've got to know because you said that you suggested that Nc6 but that more aggressive was Nf4, so which move do you vote, as that's what makes the difference, seeing that aside from that, we have one vote for Nf6 and the other one changed to Nf4
bigpeta 16-Jun-14, 08:27	@joe my vote is for Nf6. I threw in Nf4 as a move for discussion.
baddeeds 16-Jun-14, 19:38	18...Nf6
phyrexianrook 16-Jun-14, 20:35	Sticky Spot. White is in a sticky spot here already. While he position isn't objectively losing, I would say black has the better chances. This is because white has the structural weakness of the IQP and he's not really proven the case for it by taking advantage of the aggressive open lines he gets for his pieces. On the flip side, Black has already forced off the DSB's and is preparing to dominate the centre with a Nd5 move. So with this in mind, if I was playing white I'd be looking for some cautious ways to play aggressively and complicate the position away from the standard IQP battle. 1 potential way to do that is to focus on the c file, or more specifically the c6 square. If we consider that Ned5 is probably Black's best move in reply to anything white does, then preparing a counterassault down the c file with a convergence on c6 is a potential way to play the position. It's not the only way, and it's not the only plan, it's just something I note in the position. For this plan I would put forth the moves Rc1 and Ba4 for consideration, with my preference going to Rc1 as it's more flexible and less committal. Thoughts, discussion?
bigpeta 17-Jun-14, 00:50	Rc1 I agree with Rc1 as the best move and it gets my vote. If we want to discuss a B move i would rather see it on b3 than a4. from b3 it aims straight at the K defenses. a4 i think is a little out of the game.
phyrexianrook 17-Jun-14, 01:05	You might be right, I think it's a personal choice thing. With the Bishop on b3 it does point at the king's defences as you said, but it's biting on granite unless you can weaken either the e6 or f7 pawn. On a4 the bishop hits the e8 square and strengthens the grip white has on some critical light squares that black needs to rearrange his forces. That's my view anyway, but I guess we can discuss it further after black's next move.
penguin_ 17-Jun-14, 05:15	How about Ne4 forcing black to exchange ? How about Ne4 forces back to exchange and white can use B or R to exchange and the board is opened up in front of B's K.
bigpeta 17-Jun-14, 08:37	analysis of Ne4 Main point here is that black is not forced to exchange.he has a much better move in Nfd5 This protected by the N on e7 and the Q becomes very strong. also it allows f6 to drive the white N back to f3. this position is shown below Incidently this cover of d5 is why i think Bb3 would be better than Ba4 if we did look at a B move. So my vote remains for Rc1
penguin_ 17-Jun-14, 08:54	@bigpeta Got it , Rc1 for me.
baddeeds 17-Jun-14, 17:08	19.Rc1
bigpeta 18-Jun-14, 11:46	candidate moves for discussion Nc6 to attack whites strong e5 N Ned5 putting a strong N for black in the centre with the Ns connected. feel free to add your own candidates. I feel this is a critical point so moves should be considered carefully
phyrexianrook 18-Jun-14, 14:58	I agree I definitely agree that this is a critical point in the game, and I guess how we move forward is largely determined by peoples playing style and personal taste. I think the key idea here is that no matter what black does, white will not (or rather should not) be looking to trade pieces, as each trade will generally make the IQP weaker. But also, we don't want to initiate trades that will dissolve the IQP. For example, Nc6, hitting the knight on e5. A good move and worthy of discussion and consideration, but not from the point of view of looking to play Nxe5. This is an exchange yes, but the dxe5 recapture dissolves the white's weakness and the game is equal. The point would be more to threaten to capture the IQP, as this is currently only defended by white's queen this would practically force and Nf3 move. Ned5 is another good move, and also hits the knight on c3. In this exact case it threatens to win a pawn with Nxc3, bxc3, Rxc3... This would be a good exchange for black, and it would be reasonable to say that in that case black would be winning. But if white defends this threat with Bb3, then we don't want to trade the knights as the bxc3 recapture leaves white with hanging pawns, which are generally not as weak as an isolated pawn. With all this in mind, my 2 cents worth is to maintain the maximum control we can over the d5 square, to prevent the IQP advancing. This doesn't have to mean that we need to put a piece on the d5 square necessarily, in fact it can be beneficial to just control without occupation, but I think we need to make sure we make moves that will keep the pressure up to d5. Rc7 with the threat of doubling on the d file is also worth of discussion! Look forward to everyone's thoughts.
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