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apatzer 12-Sep-23, 06:58	Verse discussion John 8:19 “Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.” My heart remembered "If you really knew God, you would love me" for some reason the above verse is the closest I got to that memory. I feel that is the spirit of this verse. This is such a deep meaning/ verse Thoughts and comments welcome
bobspringett 12-Sep-23, 15:04	There's a lot more 'mysticism' in the New Testament than classical doctrines like to admit. Much of our formal theology is very Rationalist, dating back to the Scholastic tradition and behind that is Greek philosophy. The more personal, intense aspect of the Old Testament has been forgotten. Consider that Sunday School verse "Be still and know that I am God." Or "Whom have I in heaven but you, and on earth I desire nothing besides you?" This is one reason why I distrust those who treat doctrine as though it is the Ultimate Truth; to my mind, God is the only Ultimate Truth. Anything short of that is a tendency towards idolatry; making a god of what we have shaped with our own minds is just as bad and much more deceptive than making one with our own hands.
apatzer 12-Sep-23, 15:52	bobspringett Thank you for that addition. Very true.
colinthepoet 25-Nov-23, 13:00	One of the classic "proof texts" for the authority of the Bible is 2 Timothy 3 v 16-17. To our way of thinking, the deduction which most people make from the idea that all Scripture is inspired by God, is that it must therefore by factually accurate (inerrant), since God cannot lie. But if you read on a little, the emphasis which the Holy Spirit seems to be trying to convey through Paul is about teaching, rebuking, correcting, instructing and equipping. The concept of inerrancy simply doesn't seem to be there, unless it's hidden in some nuance of the Greek text and mistranslated. I think we can reasonably infer that where doctrine is taught by means of historical narrative, the history does have to be accurate or the doctrine falls apart. But Jesus was happy to tell a story about a man heading from Jerusalem to Jericho, without any obvious indication other than context that it is just a story. Either we have to conclude that the man did in fact exist, or we have the sinless Son of God making a statement which is factually incorrect, but which somehow does not make Him guilty of lying. I think that's a big clue that our Rationalism is not the whole picture.
bobspringett 25-Nov-23, 16:36	Colin 13:00 You make a good point. The most obvious question that should be asked of any passage of Scripture is 'What is the writer trying to tell me?' But too many people instead as 'What do I want to hear?' The 2 Tm. passage in particular you quote is a good example. The full sentence is "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." So Paul is NOT saying that 'All Scripture is factually infallible when understood in a literal sense.' He is saying that God meant all Scripture to be used so believers MAY BE THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK. This is one of the points drummed into me during my degree course at a Baptist college, and I know it's also emphasised by Anglicans. A sermon has to be about HOW SCRIPTURE IS TO BE APPLIED IN YOUR DAILY LIFE. It is NOT about scoring points in arguments about 'Full Immersion or Sprinkling', or 'Does the bread and wine stay bread and wine or is it changed?', or 'Did Creation really take six literal days?' As I wrote in 'Pope Barnabas', “Any theology that can’t be applied to Real Life is nothing more than speculation. We will not be redeemed by Pure Knowledge drifting in Intellectual Space. We can only be redeemed by responding to the real-universe God who calls real-universe people to real-universe repentance. And that is what real-universe theology is all about."
mo-oneandmore 26-Nov-23, 11:22	Tomorrow's verse Happy birthday to me. Happy birthday to Jon. Happy birthday Jan and Jon. Happy birthday to us. My twin brother and I will be 79 tomorrow. God bless everybody in this club and every man, woman and child as well as everything in His magnificent Cosmos. Jan

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