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 All That is Necessary for Evil to Triumph . . ."Four Reasons Christians Should Care About Politics" During the course of a presidential campaign, it is common to hear evangelicals, especially younger ones, quip, “I’m just not that interested in politics,” or, “Politics just aren’t my thing.” These dismissive remarks are often delivered with a veneer of piousness implying that political engagement is inherently defiled, occupying an arena unfit for those serious about the gospel. For those inundated with television ads, robo-calls, campaign mail and the overall negative tone of politics, this might be a tempting position to adopt. However, it is not a position Bible-believing, gospel-loving Christians can or should accept as congruent with Scripture. The message of the gospel is that by grace through faith sinners can be reconciled with God (Ephesians 2:7-8). This message transforms individuals and enables them to lead godly lives. Mandated by Scripture (Matthew 28:19-20), Christians are charged to share the good news and disciple others in faith. The gospel is a holistic message with implications for all areas of life, including how Christians engage the political process. Here are four reasons Christians should care about politics: erlc.com "Should Christians Participate in Politics?" A Biblical View of Politics When Jesus was on earth, He did not reside in a democratic republic like the United States. He lived under the oppression of an imperial dictatorship and had no opportunity to cast a ballot. He declared:“Render to Caesar that which is Caesars, and to God, the things that are Gods.” Instead of distancing believers from any connection with a civil government, he indicated there was a level of responsibility to engage in civic matters. Instead of having political leaders imposed upon us, we have the God-given opportunity to select our leaders. Shouldn’t God’s people be instrumental in influencing the selection? After all, some set of values is going to govern or control the nation. Given what Scripture reveals about the character of God, do you think He cares whether our leaders promote the killing of the unborn or the destruction of the biblical definition of marriage? It only makes sense that Christians should be at the forefront of selecting leaders who will govern according to God’s principles and will formulate policies more likely to bring God’s favor. Some well-intentioned believers feel any efforts to exert pressure on the behavior of non-Christians is wrong. Founding Father, John Jay, our first chief justice of the Supreme Court, declared: “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Can you imagine Chief Justice John Roberts or either of our two presidential candidates saying that today! www.sagu.edu "Politics: Why Christians Must Be Involved" The Christian who is involved in the material history of this world is involved in it as representing another order, another master (than the prince of this world), another claim (than that of the natural heart of man). Thus he must plunge into social and political problems in order to have an influence on the world, not in the hope of making it a paradise, but simply in order to make it tolerable — not in order to diminish the opposition between this world and the Kingdom of God, but simply in order to modify the opposition between the disorder of this world and the order of preservation that God wills for it — not in order to “bring in” the Kingdom of God, but in order that the gospel may be proclaimed, that all men may really hear the good news of salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ. – Jacques Ellul Christians, when rightly informed and motivated, change the character of political debate. They bring the moral standards of God’s kingdom into the civic realm and thereby become agents of His common grace — of His provision for those who believe as well as those who don’t. byfaithonline.com |
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CINO The statement was self explanatory but I'll say it again. You can not ascribe the son of the living God to any of those man made constructs. Or else you are trying to create God in your own image and likeness. Frank wrote: ... " << The only thing we can do is ask.... What qualities did the Christ have? What did he teach? What does the word of God teach? >> THIS may be the only YOU CAN DO, why should I or any other Christian be tethered by this narrow view?" Are you serious,? Are you that completely lost? Are you a Christian in name only? You do understand the great commission do you not? Are you on his service or not? We are called to be disciples of Christ, the goal is to be CHRIST LIKE! Anything less than that is a forgery and a fraud! You do not know the scriptures nor God. To say such a completely utterly ridiculous thing as the above statement. You sir, of your own free will have become a disciple of the World and the reason you dont understand is this. You can not serve two masters. You have chosen yours Frank. But of you turn to him he is faithful and he will set you free. Free from fear, free from want, so in this way you were correct about Yeshua being for freedom. The problem is your definition of freedom so pales in comparison to his. And your wisdom is foolishness in comparison to his. Become his disciple and he will teach you the truth and the truth will set you free. Frank wrote: " It tells me YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. You’re all over the place. " I know exactly what I'm talking about sir and I am not all over the place. I do not lean on my own understanding. It is your lack of comprehension, knowledge and understanding. If you knew him you would love me. But as he said the light shines in the darkness but the darkness does not understand it. Frank wrote: " Jesus healed the sic, lame, diseased, crippled and he raised the dead to life. >> And if you put sweetener in your coffee it will reduce its bitterness – so what?! " So you mock Jesus now? Seriously You are a Brandenburger frank Brandenburger SS. You wear the uniform of a Christian and you barely speak the language, but make no mistake. You belong to the world and are a child of Satan. You seek his desires and wish to do his will. And you deceive yourself and others. Love is the fulfillment of the law sir. I have much more to say to you concerning these things Frank more than you can bear. It doesn't have to be this way Frank. Seek Jesus out ask him to come into your heart and heal your heart and mind. And ask him to protect you from the darkness that has over taken you . You can choose to be offered of you like. But first I would look up what the Bible has to say about that of I were you. Just as Jesus said to the pharasiee and Sadusies " I tell you the truth sinners, prostitutes and tax collectors are entering into the kingdom of God ahead of you " They were indignant at that statement and sought to kill him. Oh how different this world might be if they repented instead. This world needs to learn to stop choosing Barabbas! Jesus is the light of the world sir. He is the worlds salvation sir. Because if we don't learn to start being obidiant to what he taught. This world will try to destroy itself. And that is the reason for revalations, he came an cut that time short or else we would of destroyed ourselves completely. That is what Revelations is about. But because of people like you who cause division. Who set such a horable example of the worst of America and push non believers away from Christ. Rather you should be a good example but you have not only hidden your light under a bowl, you have dug a 6 ft deep hole an buried it. Repent, for your own sake |
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apatzer 16-Nov-18, 14:01 |
Deleted by apatzer on 16-Nov-18, 14:02.
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Вы обманываете себя. |
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Oh Frank Mammon has blinded you and your ilk, to preserve its earning potential and it's way of life. Mammon AKA Lucifer ; one of his many faces. |
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apatzer . . . You seem to be completely clueless as touches the IMPACT and IMPORTANCE we can make and responsibility which the Christian has in secular society. If God can not open your eyes regarding this issue I can only pray for His mercy on you when are are called to give account. |
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As for the responsibilities that a Christian has, it is to be obidiant to Gods word and the teachings of the Christ. To believe in the one God sent. Just as Yeshua said read John 14 the entire chapter And what is the greatest commandment? And the second one which is like the first? If following the Christ and striving to be Christ like and to be obidiant to the word of God. If that is narrow then I am narrow minded to the core. Have you never read enter through the narrow Gate? Matthew 7:13 For broad is the path and broad is the Gate that leads to destruction and many enter through it. You are well on your way. As for Judgmental to say 2+2=5 for me to tell you that is wrong, is not being Jugmental. To say that you mocked Jesus with your responses ie sweeter is not Judgment And as Paul said 1 Corinthians 5:12 What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church are we not to Judge those inside? And the answer is yes, and for the same reason Paul stated. You believers who have allowed yourselves to be deceived by Satan and are actually doing his will. Because you love the world. Anyone who loves the world the love of the father is not in him. And anyone who loves the world is in enmity with God And anyone who does not love does not know God for God is love. And your statement of "If God can not open your eyes regarding this issue I can only pray for His mercy on you when are are called to give account." If God can? Are you serious? Did you forget who God is? Gods grace is sufficient. Frank you are in serious error sir. Either you are not what you portray yourself to be or worse. You remind me of those so called Christians in the Klu klux Klan. Who lie to themselves and others by saying "it is not a cross burning... it is a cross lighting " They deceive themselves and actually are working for Satan, just as you are. For Christs light shines through us when we are obidiant and strive to do the Fathers will. So what they actually do is Burn the Cross and they watch it burn, until the light is extinguished and all that remains is ashes. Which signifies the dying of the light in thier own heart. For there is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to death. These words, I do not speak on my own. And yes my father will testify on my behalf. When did you forget that Christ is the lord. Why do you call him lord lord yet do not do what he says? |
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A Reminder About What This Club is About |
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Beautifully said, Apatzer. When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. In this instance the framers of our beloved declaration of independence make direct and specific reference to the Laws of Nature, in essence the God of Spinoza. Einstein's God. They do not lay claim to the divine right of kings, but simply to the way the world works. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Our government has changed from being answerable to the people to being answerable to corporations. That, my friends, is essentially the description of fascism. Democrats won a larger percentage of the vote this election than Republicans won during the tea bag movement but did not get as many seats thanks to gerrymandering. It is clear the change America sought is not found in Trump, as only 36% agree he should win reelection in 2020. Granted, just over one in three is a huge percent, only 58% said he should absolutely NOT be reelected. But it is long past time America join the rest of the industrial world with a big step into the twenty first century, including Trump's promise of affordable health care for all--not simply repeal of health care for the nasty poor and people with preexisting conditions. |
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Lord Shiva Simply beautifully put! Thank you, I am on complete agreement! |
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From Whence Comes Federal Authority? |
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Onset = Consent That "corporations are people too, my friends," comes from Mitt Romney. It is true, our Supreme Court has ruled corporations are persons, though they currently lack suffrage. Fifteen years ago I set up thousands of shell corporations in Texas, Florida, and New York. California was too expensive. In 2020 these corporations will be only 17 years old, but the way things are going they will earn the right to vote in the 2024 elections, and their ballots will be for sale to the highest bidder. I expect I have enough dummy companies to swing any close election in these three states. |
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Corporations If I kill someone by accident, then I'm subject to manslaughter charges. If I knew what I was doing would cause harm, I am also negligent and subject to greater charges. If I tried to cover up my involvement or hinder law enforcement agencies or officers. Greater charges still. Yet a Corporation can be a person do all of these things and only have to pay a fine. Corporations also strive to avoid taxation and receive vast refunds on money they never paid in as well as subsidized funds and no interest loans. In years past corporations got to where they are by providing a service to thier communities. Then as they grew they provided a service to a nation. Grew more still and provide a service globally. Somewhere along the line they now think people serve them, that Government serves them. And as they eat each other in ever growing competition. The people have less and less option to take their business elsewhere. |
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Pure Conjecture! Regardless how the Framers of the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution viewed "the God of nature" the FACT that they used the Bible to justify the notion of "inalienable rights" trumps your assertions that it was "the God of Spinoza" to whom they appealed. Also, the Colonials, as a general set of beliefs were influenced by the Christian Bible above any other authority. Consider, for example, the flag of an evergreen tree on a white background with the words, "An Appeal to Heaven". www.historyisfun.org |
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dmaestro 17-Nov-18, 20:49 |
Corporate personhood is absurd. The intent of corporations was simply to shelter shareholders from all the legal risks of a personally owned business. It’s been abused since the guilded era. |
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dmaestro 17-Nov-18, 21:02 |
In fact Frank the Founders were heavily influenced by Deism and reason. Not many would agree with today’s evangelicals. That is a mythology. |
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dmaestro 17-Nov-18, 23:07 |
Jesus focused far more on criticism of them than the oppressive Romans precisely because the Jewish religious leaders didn’t follow their own faith and actually deterred the deeper faith despite knowledge of it while the Roman soldiers were just ignorant of it, and thus the rejectionist Jewish leaders the greater of sinners. Just so IMO with many of today’s charismatic right wing evangelical leaders who are doing the same worship of Mammon and power while condemning the secular who don’t even profess to be religious only moral. I hope enough of the larger flock sees the light at some point. It appears many more younger evangelicals are rejecting this flawed dogma. |
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apatzer . . . That sir was one of the most beautiful and eloquent posts! Simply beautifully put! Thank you, I am on complete agreement! >> What a bald-faced hypocrite you are. On the one hand you castigate and ridicule me for speaking into the political arena from a Christian perspective, and on the other you clamor and encourage lord_shiva for what? His Leftist/ Communistic views? Does that mean you are aligned with such views? That’s okay, but you’ll have no basis for “calling me out” again due to my Christian basis of seeing the world will you? Especially, as it appears your "Christian faith" is now aligned with enemies of the Cross! |
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apatzer 18-Nov-18, 11:09 |
Deleted by inhis_service on 18-Nov-18, 11:11.
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lord_shiva . . . This assertion requires a great measure of liberal and imaginative understanding and projection IMO. Actually “fascism” is: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarianultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6] en.wikipedia.org While I must agree with you in regard to the power corporations have in subverting that form of government which no longer answers to the people of America, the power which now rules in America is not strictly located within a particular “dictatorial power” – as such. Rather, though difficult to define and articulate in a definitive manner, those who are paying attention to how those in power are undermining our Republic, we can see it through the fact that the will the American society no longer matters in the political process. A large measure of culpability resides in the fact that broadcasters and publishers of news and information are controlled by the same corporations wielding undue influence over our Congress and general legislative bodies in the politics of America. “Information” about what our government is doing and who is deciding their course is decidedly and purposely veiled and hidden. Particularly information regarding the financial use of America’s money and how it is generated and disseminated! << Democrats won a larger percentage of the vote this election than Republicans won during the tea bag movement but did not get as many seats thanks to gerrymandering. It is clear the change America sought is not found in Trump, as only 36% agree he should win reelection in 2020. Granted, just over one in three is a huge percent, only 58% said he should absolutely NOT be reelected. >> The fact that both of America’s political parties are failing to address these larger issue aforementioned plays directly into the hands of those in power to keep the whole of American society at a loss to get together against the real enemies of our country. << But it is long past time America join the rest of the industrial world with a big step into the twenty first century, including Trump's promise of affordable health care for all--not simply repeal of health care for the nasty poor and people with preexisting conditions. >> Such myopic sentiments simply is a sign the writer has failed to comprehend the dangers inherent in “joining the rest of the industrial world” – namely the enslavement of the all people. President Trump’s failure at providing an affordable health care plan is evidence of the enemies of America (in Congress now) to cooperate with the president in coming up with a plan for this needed health care. |
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apatzer . . . I have my right to express those beliefs without being criticized by another human who may hold to a different belief. State whatever you believe as loudly and boldly as you wish - but any posts directly aimed at views of others WILL NOT BE ALLOWED. PERIOD. Political content aimed at issues of whatever strip are welcomed. Thank you for your contributions in advance. |
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dmeastro . . ./ Suspect Source John Adams SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1 Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.2 The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.3 Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!4 I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.5 John Quincy Adams SIXTH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; DIPLOMAT; SECRETARY OF STATE; U. S. SENATOR; U. S. REPRESENTATIVE; “OLD MAN ELOQUENT”; “HELL-HOUND OF ABOLITION” My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God.6 The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the Divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made “bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God” [Isaiah 52:10]. In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.8 Samuel Adams SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; “FATHER OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION”; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS I . . . [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.9 The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe [Proverbs 18:10]. Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.10 I conceive we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world . . . that the confusions that are and have been among the nations may be overruled by the promoting and speedily bringing in the holy and happy period when the kingdoms of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and the people willingly bow to the scepter of Him who is the Prince of Peace.11 He also called on the State of Massachusetts to pray that . . . the peaceful and glorious reign of our Divine Redeemer may be known and enjoyed throughout the whole family of mankind.12 we may with one heart and voice humbly implore His gracious and free pardon through Jesus Christ, supplicating His Divine aid . . . [and] above all to cause the religion of Jesus Christ, in its true spirit, to spread far and wide till the whole earth shall be filled with His glory.13 with true contrition of heart to confess their sins to God and implore forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ our Savior.14 Josiah Bartlett MILITARY OFFICER; SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE Called on the people of New Hampshire . . . to confess before God their aggravated transgressions and to implore His pardon and forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ . . . [t]hat the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ may be made known to all nations, pure and undefiled religion universally prevail, and the earth be fill with the glory of the Lord.15 Gunning Bedford MILITARY OFFICER; MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; FEDERAL JUDGE To the triune God – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost – be ascribed all honor and dominion, forevermore – Amen.16 wallbuilders.com From their own mouths to your ears ( If you have ears to hear) |
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dmaestro 18-Nov-18, 13:25 |
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As I Said. . . . Written by Secular/Humanists From a godless world view. |
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Wallbuilders www.thegospelcoalition.org |
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I wish you the best. |
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dmeastro . . . This could very well be the case. Regardless of how far from the fundamental Christian faith some of these men may have been IMO I believe God still providentially orchestrated all the events which culminated in the establishment of America. |
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Was the Genocide of the Native Americans Manifest destiny! |
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"We" . . .? As far as I know Christians tried to do good and help the Indians. Can you find any evidence which suggests otherwise? |
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Why Yes, Yes I Can! Quote: ...Custer took advantage of his furlough to put himself right with God. At a Sunday evening service at the Monroe Presbyterian Church, he experienced a religious conversion, one that left him feeling, Custer said, “somewhat like the pilot of a vessel who has been steering his ship upon familiar and safe waters but has been called upon to make a voyage fraught with danger. Having in safety and with success completed one voyage, he is imbued with confidence and renewed courage, and the second voyage is robbed of half its terror. So it is with me.” ekballo.wordpress.com While Lord Jeffrey Amherst was not a founding father, he was a colonialist, and came up with the idea of germ warfare. Probably not originally--but the native American application of it. www.umass.edu The depiction of Indians as wild beasts was common among early American leaders, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. David E. Stannard wrote: “As is so often the case, it was New England’s religious elite who made the point more graphically than anyone. Referring to some Indians who had given offense to the colonists, the Reverend Cotton Mather wrote: ‘Once you have but got the Track of those Ravenous howling Wolves, then pursue them vigourously; Turn not back till they are consumed… Beat them small as the Dust before the Wind.’ Lest this be regarded as mere rhetoric, empty of literal intent, consider that another of New England’s most esteemed religious leaders, the Reverend Solomon Stoddard, as late as 1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs ‘to hunt Indians as they do bears.'” newsmaven.io Checkered past. |
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