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dmaestro 30-Jul-18, 23:51 |
 IHS you are missing the point. I met this family and their children at a lecture. They were conservative church going folk who had the sense to realize the obvious. You judge what you don’t even understand. You claim as we are embodied souls (I would say Spirits) the body must match the gender of the child. In fact bodies are impermanent and flawed like everything else in this world. There is no gender In Heaven but not here. Some people are born intersex en.m.wikipedia.org regardless of what you think the Bible means. Some are born possessed by demons. Some die bodily between conception and birth. There is nothing prohibiting souls from being born in the opposite gender’s body. At the time Jesus taught most Jewish scholars did not take all the Hebrew Scriptures literally but partly allegorically and Jesus taught in parables and interpreted scripture because Jesus lived as Spirit and saw from the perspective. The living eternal Christ is beyond all that. There is actually a divine lesson in the fact that the world doesn’t neatly conform to literalism but you can’t see it—unfortunate. Modern young Christians want to express the loving Spirit of Jesus as he taught and lived not be locked into rigid literalism. If God causes transgender children to be born it’s our job to look for God’s purpose not deny. |
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dmaestro. . . A tragic story to be sure. Who can not see that? Regardless, though I do not “understand” how this phenomenon has come to be, living in a Fallen world with all the tragedies and injustices which mankind deals with. Christians must not and can not be detoured by these tragedies into following or being led away from believing that because of these unfortunate events that they are cause or rational for abandoning the clear guidelines given to us in Scripture. I am not judging these people and the choices that they believe are the best for their child. I do not judge anybody. Whatever choices they are making they and their child are going to live with them. Including the very real nature of the health problems which that choice is likely going to engender. Scholarly articles for transgender health risks scholar.google.com Being Transgender in America can be Dangerous to Your Health www.latimes.com When Transgender Kids Transition, Medical Risks are both Known and Unknown www.pbs.org Transgender Children are at Greater Risk for Mental Health Care Problems www.sciencenews.org These parents may be trading in one set of problems for ones much greater. You say you know this family personally. Do you know if they have reached out to find answer within the Christian community? Such as Helping Children with Gender Identity Confusion media.focusonthefamily.com Talking to Your Children About Transgender Issues www.focusonthefamily.com This next one is for adults, but it does highlight that God can help heal. 'Trading my Sorrows' – A Story of Healing from Transgenderism www.focusonthefamily.com 5 Things Every Christian Must Know about the Transgender Debate www.thegoodbook.com Have you read any of my links. Your posts suggest you have not! << You claim as we are embodied souls (I would say Spirits) the body must match the gender of the child. In fact bodies are impermanent and flawed like everything else in this world. There is no gender In Heaven but not here. Some people are born intersex en.m.wikipedia.org regardless of what you think the Bible means. Some are born possessed by demons. Some die bodily between conception and birth. There is nothing prohibiting souls from being born in the opposite gender’s body. >> More examples of what happens in a Fallen World. These ideas you present here, where did you get them? “regardless of what you think the Bible means” . . . What do you THINK IT MEANS. You continue to sidestep my questions – WHY? This is an unashamedly Christian club. We will uphold Christian principles. Other ideas and perspectives will be allowed to be presented, but they will not take the place of what God's revealed word states. If you present outside ideas which are in opposition to God's Word – which continually resort to, they will not be accepted. Bible truths trump anything else. << At the time Jesus taught most Jewish scholars did not take all the Hebrew Scriptures literally but partly allegorically and Jesus taught in parables and interpreted scripture because Jesus lived as Spirit and saw from the perspective. The living eternal Christ is beyond all that. There is actually a divine lesson in the fact that the world doesn’t neatly conform to literalism but you can’t see it—unfortunate. >> Your opinion. Nothing more. << Modern young Christians want to express the loving Spirit of Jesus as he taught and lived not be locked into rigid literalism. If God causes transgender children to be born it’s our job to look for God’s purpose not deny. >> You are perfectly free to take this tact. You will answer for taking this stance. God speed. |
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Other ideas will also be censored if they conflict with or deviate substantially from the perception of IHS of what Christianity ought to be. <<If you present outside ideas which are in opposition to God's Word – which continually resort to, they will not be accepted. Bible truths trump anything else.>> Your misinterpretation of scripture is in serious error, jeopardizing your soul. <<< At the time Jesus taught most Jewish scholars did not take all the Hebrew Scriptures literally but partly allegorically and Jesus taught in parables and interpreted scripture because Jesus lived as Spirit and saw from the perspective. The living eternal Christ is beyond all that. There is actually a divine lesson in the fact that the world doesn’t neatly conform to literalism but you can’t see it—unfortunate. >>> <<Your opinion. Nothing more.>> That is what you have been feeding us--your opinion. You find sources that support your opinion--even if those sources are corrupt or just plain wrong. <<< Modern young Christians want to express the loving Spirit of Jesus as he taught and lived not be locked into rigid literalism. If God causes transgender children to be born it’s our job to look for God’s purpose not deny. >>> <<You are perfectly free to take this tact. You will answer for taking this stance. God speed.>> You think God will not have "well meaning" Christians who attack homosexuals answer for their sins? It is funny to me that Christians would happily serve a man who has cheated on all three of his wives with porn stars and mistresses, but won't sell baked goods to a loving, committed homosexual couple. They vainly imagine God demands they discriminate against one sinner while embracing and supporting a much worse sinner. www.hrc.org "Discrimination Is Not A Christian Value" www.believeoutloud.com |
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dmaestro 31-Jul-18, 18:55 |
This is just one example of why younger Christians are rejecting this dogma. These so called Christian parents are bigots who have failed in their parental responsibility. Conversion therapy doesn’t work. Punishing their child for being born gay is disgusting. |
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A Sure Foundation! These opinions and examples not withstanding, they and those who believe that the LBGT agenda is or should be accepted, are only confirming Scripture's warning against adopting such worldly wisdom and philosophy. Has American conservative Christians earlier in our history not yielded to accepting the ban on prayer and Bible reading in our schools we would not today be dealing with this issue. Children are empty vessels to be filled with thoughts patterns and an understanding of how God Almighty has created our our universe. Another words – a Biblical world view. Instead they have learned situation ethics and a secular-humanist world view. The courts exchanged one religion (Christianity) for another (secular humanism). The result was (or should have be predictable!) “What Happened When the Praying Stopped?” Prayer in schools prior to 1962 was utilized in school districts all over the U.S. in many varieties. Some teachers used extemporaneous prayers, simply expressing their thoughts and desires; others implemented structured prayers, such as the Lord's Prayer or the 23rd Psalm, or others approved by local school boards. New York students prayed each day: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee and beg Thy blessing over us, our parents, our teachers, and our nation." It was this simple prayer which came under fire and went to the Supreme Court for the landmark decision. Much has been said both for and against prayer in schools. There is little doubt that neither the Lord Jesus Himself nor the founding fathers would have been in favour of ‘forced’ or ‘state sponsored’ prayer. The option to pray or not to pray is a matter of individual choice and has to come from the heart. It is a matter of some doubt whether the actual doing away of prayer in schools has directly contributed to the escalation of teen-age pregnancies and suicides and the downward spiral of the SAT scores. What really Caused the Downward Spiral? Some have suggested that there is a causal relationship between taking prayer out of school and all the other bad things that happen in our society. I'm not sure that it's valid. The rooster crows and the sun comes up. Does that mean that the rooster causes the sun to come up? Because the sun comes up after the rooster crows, does it mean that if we killed the rooster we'll be perpetually in darkness? The point is that just because one thing happens after another doesn't mean that the second is caused by the first. [1] However some indisputable statistics tell us that the downward slide in behavior started about the time of the court decision and was very evidently related. As we see it, the court ruling to remove prayer from the school system was nothing more than the ‘official’ stamp on the removal of God from a very crucial part of our society. It was simply one large step among many small ones, which has contributed to the moral & spiritual disintegration of the US. It was a flying leap across the narrow chasm separating a God fearing moral country and the chaotic ‘everything goes’ situation we find ourselves in today. The message the Supreme Court sent to the country that fateful day was that it was okay to ‘remove’ God from His rightful place. They were simply another, very effective, tool in Satan’s hand. Remove the fear of God from the human heart, whitewash the reality that, sooner or later, all of us will answer to a supremely moral Being, eliminate the concept that He demands adherence to His laws and it is but a short step to the deterioration of the cornerstone of society… The Family. With the fear of God done away with there is no longer any reason to treat the marriage vows as sacred, to bring up God-fearing children. From there it is an even shorter step to all the other sinister and evil circumstances we find ourselves in today. www.inplainsite.org Other articles substantiate this as well. Banning Prayer in America's Public Schools Has Led to America's Demise www.forerunner.com The Effect of Removing Prayer and the Bible from the Schools in 1962 cpcfoundation.wordpress.com Education Expert: Romoving Bible and Prayer from Schools Has Caused a Decline “One can argue, and some have, that the decision by the Supreme Court – in a series of three decisions back in 1962 and 1963 – to remove Bible and prayer from our public schools, may be the most spiritually significant event in our nation’s history over the course of the last 55 years,” Jeynes said. On June 25, 1962, the United States Supreme Court decided in Engel v. Vitale that a prayer approved by the New York Board of Regents for use in schools violated the First Amendment because it represented establishment of religion. In 1963, in Abington School District v. Schempp, the court decided against Bible readings in public schools along the same lines. Since 1963, Jeynes said there have been five negative developments in the nation’s public schools: • Academic achievement has plummeted, including SAT scores. • Academic achievement has plummeted, including SAT scores. • Increased rate of out-of-wedlock births • Increase in illegal drug use • Increase in juvenile crime • Deterioration of school behavior “So we need to realize that these actions do have consequences,” said Jeynes, professor at California State College in Long Beach and senior fellow at the Witherspoon Institute in Princeton, N.J., “When we remove that moral fiber -- that moral emphasis – this is what can result.” www.cnsnews.com These were the precursors leading to where we are today. Debating whether or not sexual perversion should be accepted and protected by law! Americans had forgotten the clear warnings of 2 Timothy 4:3-4: "time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths" 5 Signs of Ear-tickling Preachers 1)Ear-tickling preachers bypass self-denial and the cross. 2)Ear-ticking preachers go light on sin. 3)Ear-tickling preachers are loved by the world. 4)Ear-tickling preachers tell the flesh what it wants to hear. 5)Ear-tickling preachers get away from the Word and give way to myths. www.charismanews.com That last one applies especially to this issue! Christianity Corrupted Nearly all of the writers of the New Testament predicted that changes would occur in key beliefs after their deaths. That people would “fall away” and that “apostasy” would enter the body of believers. Consider the following verses: A Warning We can see from the verses above that the established church would be deceived by false ideas. The warning is to take heed to what the Bible teaches. We must get back to the word of God. We cannot afford to rely on what a Vicar, Priest, Bishop or Pastor dictates to us. We have to search out the scriptures to ensure that we hold the truth as preached by the original believers in Jesus Christ. Such searching can be done by any individual who is seeking for truth. It takes an open and independent mind, one which comes to the Bible to find that truth. The verses above show the importance of finding the true original doctrines as taught in the scriptures and holding fast to them. It clearly does matter what we believe and to ensure we have not been deceived by an apostate system we have to get back to what the Bible teaches. Recent Changes Many recent changes are occurring in most churches as the pressures of modern, humanistic society challenge already weak church practices and doctrines. In a desperate attempt to keep up their popularity, churches adopt these ideas. There are a few doctrines which have recently been changed in many churches – such as the authority of the Bible, the Holy Spirit, divorce, adultery, cohabitation, homosexuality, and women priests amongst many more. God's Ways Do Not Change The Bible clearly teaches that God’s ways and purpose do not change. Consider these verses: It is important therefore to read the Bible, for what we find there will not change. Although man changes and society’s rules may change – the Bible will stay constant, both in its doctrines and its teaching on how we should live. What we believe and how we live our lives, should be consistent with the Bible if we claim to be followers of it. www.the-gospel-truth.info Examples of Apostasy in the Christian Church 1)Changing the Bible to include gender-neutral wording 2)Metropolitan Community Church which openly approves of homosexuality 3)The Evangelical Lutheran Church (on homosexuality) (1) "The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America decided Monday to undertake its first major study on whether to endorse the morality of homosexual relationships...The Rev. Ann Tiemeyer of Woodside, N.Y., said she supports greater acceptance of gay church members and clergy. "It is time to send a message that we are a welcoming church, in our clergy as well as our pews," she said," (Associated Press Online, 08/13/2001, Lutherans to Study Homosexuality). (2)"The church currently allows homosexual clergy if they practice celibacy." (New Bishop for Evangelical Lutherans, ELCA, Associated Press Online, 10/06/2001.) 1.Note: if a person acknowledges that homosexuality is a sin and is in a state of repentance but still has those tendencies, then this would not disqualify him from being a minister. However, if he were a homosexual who is not practicing but also believes that it is okay and not a sin, then that would disqualify him from being a minister. 4)The Evangelical Lutheran Church (on evolution) The ELCA doesn't have an official position on creation vs. evolution, but we subscribe to the historical-critical method of biblical interpretation, so we believe God created the universe and all that is therein, only not necessarily in six 24-hour days, and that he may actually have used evolution in the process of creation. (www.elca.org) 5)The Episcopal Church (woman bishop to oust conservative priest) "An Episcopal Church committee has backed efforts by Washington's acting Bishop Jane Holmes Dixon to oust a conservative priest. A nine-member panel of clergy and laity said Dixon followed church law when she rejected the decision of the Christ Church vestry to hire the Rev. Samuel Edwards and ordered him to leave by May 25. Edwards refused, and continues to conduct services and occupy the rectory," (Religion News in Brief, Associated Press Online, 09/27/2001), 6)The Mennonite Church (on homosexuality) "After nearly two decades of negotiation, the nation's two largest Mennonite denominations overwhelmingly approved a merger Thursday that creates the 125,000-member Mennonite Church USA....Many delegates expressed mixed feelings about the new membership guidelines, under which the church will not recognize same-sex marriages. Individual congregations and regional conferences will decide whether homosexuals will be allowed as members. (Two Mennonite Groups Approve Merger, NASHVILLE, Tenn., Jul 05, 2001, AP Online via COMTEX). 7)The Presbyterian Church United States of America (on homosexuality) "In a closely watched case, the highest court of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) refused to rule Tuesday on whether a homosexual man is eligible to serve as a church elder. The court said the dispute surrounding Wayne Osborne had become moot because the First Presbyterian Church of Stamford, Conn., had installed another group of elders," (Presbyterian Court Sidesteps Ruling; Ky., Dec 04, 2001, AP Online via COMTEX). 8)The United Church of Christ (on homosexuality) "The United Church of Christ set up a $500,000 scholarship fund for gay and lesbian seminarians Friday and urged wider acceptance of homosexuals by other denominations." (United Church Makes Gay Scholarship, CLEVELAND, Jun 16, 2000, AP Online via COMTEX). 9)The United Methodist Church (on homosexuality) 1."The supreme court of the United Methodist Church was asked Thursday to reconsider the denomination's ban on gay clergy. (Church court of United Methodists asked to decide on gay clergy ban, NASHVILLE, Tennessee, Oct 25, 2001, AP WorldStream via COMTEX). In contemporary culture, homosexuality is gaining ground and acceptance. This should never bleed over into the Christian church. The fact that homosexuality is even in question in some denominations is a definite sign of apostasy since homosexuality clearly contradicts the plain teaching of scripture that homosexuality is a sin: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God," (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Unfortunately, too many denominations are listening to the false gospel of the world and becoming secularized. They need to repent and stand on God's word, whether it is popular or not. carm.org |
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