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obsteve 18-Feb-21, 13:45	H.R.484 - No Glory for Hate Act www.congress.gov SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the “No Glory for Hate Act”. SEC. 2. FEDERAL FUNDS RESTRICTION ON COMMEMORATING CERTAIN FORMER PRESIDENTS. Notwithstanding section 3102 of title 40, United States Code, no Federal funds may be used to— (1) create or display any symbol, monument, or statue commemorating any former President that has been twice impeached by the House of Representatives on or before the date of enactment of this Act or has been convicted of a State or Federal crime relating to actions taken in an official capacity as President of the United States on Federal public land, including any highway, park, subway, Federal building, military installation, street, or other Federal property; or (2) name, designate, or redesignate a Federal building or Federal land after, or in commemoration of, any former President that has been twice impeached by the House of Representatives on or before the date of enactment of this Act or has been convicted of a State or Federal crime relating to actions taken in an official capacity as President of the United States. SEC. 3. RESTRICTION OF FEDERAL FUNDS FOR PROPERTY BEARING THE NAME OF CERTAIN FORMER PRESIDENTS. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no Federal funds or other Federal financial assistance may be provided to a State, political subdivision thereof, or entity if any such funds or financial assistance will be used for the benefit of any building, land, structure, installation, or any other property that bears the name, or is named or designated in commemoration of, any former President that has been twice impeached by the House of Representatives on or before the date of enactment of this Act or has been convicted of a State or Federal crime relating to actions taken in an official capacity as President of the United States. SEC. 4. FORMER PRESIDENTS ACT RESTRICTION. Notwithstanding any provision of the Act entitled “An Act to provide retirement, clerical assistants, and free mailing privileges to former Presidents of the United States, and for other purposes”, approved August 25, 1958 (3 U.S.C. 102 note; commonly known as the “Former Presidents Act of 1958”), any former President that has been twice impeached by the House of Representatives on or before the date of enactment of this Act or has been convicted of a State or Federal crime relating to actions taken in an official capacity as President of the United States is not entitled to receive any benefit, other than Secret Service protection, under such Act. SEC. 5. PROHIBITION OF BURIAL OF CERTAIN FORMER PRESIDENTS. Section 7722(a) of title 10, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: “(3) In carrying out paragraphs (1) and (2), the Secretary of Defense shall not approve a determination of eligibility for interment or inurnment in Arlington National Cemetery made by the Secretary of the Army that permits the interment or inurnment in Arlington National Cemetery of any former President that has been twice impeached by the House of Representatives on or before the date of enactment of this Act or has been convicted of a State or Federal crime relating to actions taken in an official capacity as President of the United States.”.
obsteve 18-Feb-21, 13:46	Might as well call it the "Up Yours Trump" act
dmaestro 18-Feb-21, 14:42	I’m for it... Anyone impeached who escapes conviction by only a minority of partisan votes should still be punished. And once we get what Trump has been hiding and we convict Trump of federal crimes in court like all criminals he should lose certain rights and benefits. Trump has been fighting the IRS on dubious grounds for many years. Immunity and his ability to pardon co-conspirators was a big reason he sought the office. Immunity gone, his conviction for felony tax fraud and any other crimes would be a good thing. He’s escaped justice for too long.
obsteve 18-Feb-21, 14:57	DM I disagree with you here. Political punishment, particularly one so obviously focussed on penalising just one person, in an effort to circumvent the Senate ruling only last week, is not the way I would like to see your governmental system used. And I think you would hate to see it used on one of your own. I say this as a person who is deeply committed to seeing Trump's lies exposed. But until they are exposed, this smacks of political expediency.
softaire 18-Feb-21, 20:57	Everything the Dems come up with demonstrates the juvenile, reckless, and mindless delinquent mental processes of the typical progressive Democrat. They are infected by TDS and do not have anything but contemptable hate seething within. You have to say that people with that attitude are simply morons incapable of rational thought.
dmaestro 18-Feb-21, 22:30	TDS? A fake disease. Like Trump boasted, he could shoot someone on the street and most of the GOP and those like Softaire and many in this club would support Trump in such a case claiming t was fake news or it was justified. It’s a cult. What we have is Trump Cult Derangement Syndrome projected on opponents. That won’t ever change; no facts will ever matter. I wish that were not the case but it is. I disagree with Steve facts will change their views. Therefore, I support any legal means of holding Trump accountable for crimes as long as it takes including that bill which probably won’t pass. We are headed for conflict, so their inevitable revenge and escalation can’t worry me.
obsteve 19-Feb-21, 00:45	DM Did Mr Trump really boast that? Source, please!
softaire 19-Feb-21, 09:33	Steve Yes, he was boasting about how popular he was with his fan base and followers. But he was "boasting" and nobody with a brain thinks he actually believes he could shoot somebody and get away with it. As usual, he was having fun with the press and he is being taken out of context. If DM said it and it is about Trump, you should know it is a lie and/or being taken out of context.
dmaestro 19-Feb-21, 10:13	www.cnn.com Those of us who study cults realize Trump’s boast isn’t just a “joke”. It’s not “out of context”; it’s a cultic dog whistle. This kind of statement is the norm for cult leaders to establish loyalty and expand boundaries on violence so anything less than him shooting someone personally is acceptable. In reality Trump’s loyal cult following will do his violence and killing for him as we see. Trump is far too clever a manipulator for his followers like Softaire to wake up to the subtle nuances of his rhetoric.
softaire 19-Feb-21, 10:57	DM You know a lot about a lot, so you may know cults better than me. But, as Steve puts it, I have been around they block a time or two and I do NOT think Trump voters are a cult. There are way too many Trump supporters in order for them to be a cult. Trump supporters comprise probably every racial group, religious persuasion, and speak probably every language in the country. The come from every economic group and every cultural heritage within the states. I am sure you are correct that "some" of his followers DO belong to a cult of some kind. I think most do not.
obsteve 19-Feb-21, 12:24	DM There are cultish followers of any leader, I think, but Trump inspired a loyalty from his people that I have never seen before in a politician. And he delivered to his people, which is also admirable, I think, though I disagree with his politics and I think he abused his trust toward the end of his term. On various right wing sites I visit, I am regularly called a "cultist", funnily enough. I pay the insult as little attention as I do "retard". I think it's just a lazy slur, and I read it as shorthand for "I don't understand you and that makes me cross". Punch higher, comrade x
dmaestro 19-Feb-21, 12:45	Cults can be huge. Not every Trump supporter is a cultist for sure. Some just rely excessive on information sources that spin what he does in the best light. Not is every Trump supporter an authoritarian either. But many are both. Enough so that the kind of groupthink that develops becomes a cult of personality with Trump a larger than life figure. Trump demands loyalty over all, and gets it. What’s irresponsible is he feeds cultism. What you are blind and deaf to is the cultic consequences of Trump’s hypnotic, persuasive rhetorical skills combined with his narcissism. www.google.com. My basic point is we are well beyond facts mattering anymore because cultism is more satisfying. That won’t change.
obsteve 19-Feb-21, 13:00	Speaking of persuasion techniques... You cite a cartoonist whose book is being promoted in the link? I love Scott Adams, but there's more sales than substance in that piece of puffery! I agree Trump demands loyalty (not always a bad quality in a leader) but I think it caused too high a staff turnaround in his team, and was the main drive behind accelerating divisions and intolerance of other. Being a pluralist type, I like the "many voices" approach of Liberalism, better than Trump's "my way or the highway", though can see how that also gets administrations hamstrung, albeit a different way. Happier that we swing merrily to either side of centre, fool that it makes of me.
thumper 19-Feb-21, 13:55	DM Calling those who voted for Trump 'cultists' is simply an attempt to demean, belittle and disparage them. In this case many tens of millions. A despicable tactic IMO. The deliberate and calculated attempt to rationalize abusing and attacking those who don't agree with you has a long and sordid tradition among some of the most vile people throughout history.
softaire 19-Feb-21, 15:01	It actually seems more likely that DM belongs to a cult. He is locked into thee same mantra... Orange Man Bad. NEVER anything good. Talk about being brainwashed! Trump has never demanded anything from me. And every time I have heard him speak, he was lampooning the press and MSM, or another politician, or saying some good about America. Or, he may have been bragging about his own successes. I have never heard him speak badly about America or Americans, unless they deserved it. He has tried to speak fairly about almost all people, including those in Charlotsburg where he said he knows there were "good people" on both sides. Anyone who can't agree with that is a hater.
dmaestro 19-Feb-21, 15:19	Thumper Of course you think that. No cult ever claims to be a cult. They think they come together for “truth”.   Followers just won’t accept they are a cult. It’s something you see from outside. It’s not for cultists to see or understand, few of them really escape cultism, it’s not an invitation for discussion, it is only useful for outsiders to understand why fact and reason have no effect, and why “disloyalty” to the cult and their dogma gets such hostile response. Trump is an unusually skilled mass cult leader, but he tread a well worn path others will carry on. I know where this cult leads: www.yahoo.com.
dmaestro 19-Feb-21, 15:27	Softaire You see and hear what you are born to see and hear. And so you could never understand my point. This wasn’t an invitation to serious discussion. I’ll let Steve do that.
thumper 19-Feb-21, 15:35	DM Oh I get it. It's the perfect accusation/smear. 'You' decide to call 70-80 million people 'cultists' and verily it is so, no discussion required. Only you can see it because, well, you're you. Damn you're good.
obsteve 19-Feb-21, 16:37	DM Softie: <<Talk about being brainwashed!>> There we go, that's where we end up: "No U". We prefer to believe others are brainwashed, or evil, or retarded, rather than look to ourselves for the lack of understanding of another's world view. And then we get caught in a spiral of playground nonsense. Is it possible the blame is both equal and opposite?
obsteve 19-Feb-21, 16:39	Soft That wasn't a backhander at you, either. Only at the fragile and unlikely nature of real communication
softaire 20-Feb-21, 10:19	Steve It is DM who says that anyone who agrees with Trump, no matter how much or how little, is a member of the Trump Cult. According to DM, all 80 million of us hang on baited breath for our leader to speak and then we dutifully go out and execute his plan. DM think that none of us have ever done anything beneficial and everything we have done, whether individually or as a cult, has been detrimental. All THAT, to me, sounds like a member of the far leftist cult calling out their mantra, splitting the country apart with further divisions. Have you EVER seen DM say anything good about Trump, or Trump supporters? How can there ever be any healing, coming together, agreements when people like DM are so consumed with hate?
dmaestro 20-Feb-21, 23:35	That isn’t completely accurate but in fairness I did oversimplify cultism because it really doesn’t matter, as I said the last year has shown our divisions just can’t be bridged, they are growing. and thus discussions are effectively fruitless. Steve has the patience and isn’t burned out like most the other more liberal people, so for most it’s—why bother? There is just no more possibility of mutual understanding. It’s going to end in conflict anyway; we are already in a cold civil war.
obsteve 22-Feb-21, 18:50	Softie & DM I see you as flip sides of the same coin, in your anger and fear, with "the left does this" and "the right does that", "you're a cult", "no you are", "you're brainwashed", "no, you are evil". No-one willing to accept personal responsibility; each mischaracterising the other; slinging insults and threats, in the mad dance to the death. Don't you know you're dancing to the same insane tune? Don't you know who's calling the tune? So what if Trump-or-Biden is admired and supported; a million or so more swing right-or-left; political decisions are made that you like-or-don't like? Welcome to democracy, boys! You can't see your brother for the poor, painted effigy you've been sold, by the very media that you know lies, dialling up your moral outrage to line their own pockets. You can't hear each other for pressing your fingers in your ears and shouting so damn hard. That's not discussion. No wonder you're exhausted! Somebody, at some stage (and preferably soon) has to have the courage stand up, say "enough is enough", draw a line under the vitriol and take personal responsibility for their own behaviour. Of course divisions can be bridged, but not while no-one is prepared to lay the stones on their own side to reach the other. No keystone can be carved while your your blades are busy at each others' throats.

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