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 Several Countries in EuropeIs that true? |
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stalhandske 02-Feb-22, 01:49 |
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Wow... that's great Does that mean no more social distancing? Does that mean no more vaccination requirements? Does that mean no more vaccine passports? Does that mean no more shutdowns? Does that mean no more travel restrictions? Does that mean no more keeping family away from sick people in the hospital? Does that mean no more lost jobs if you weren't vaccinated? Does that mean no more masking & vaccinations for children? Does that mean children can attend in-person schools? |
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Now South Africa Overnight, the government announced sweeping changes to many of the remaining COVID-19 regulations. From now on, anyone without symptoms can continue to live life as normal. Anyone who comes into contact with a COVID-positive person and has no symptoms can also continue as normal. No testing. No isolation. www.npr.org |
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stalhandske 02-Feb-22, 08:38 |
Softaire <Does that mean no more indoor masking?> Certainly not. <Does that mean no more social distancing?> Certainly not <Does that mean no more vaccination requirements?> Interesting question. The Finnish Government just now decided that so-called corona passports (evidence that you are vaccinated) will no longer be in use. The reason is two-fold. First, the vaccination coverage is large. The second reason may be of special interest to you: The Finnish Government (and the Finnish Institute of Health) is of the opinion that one cannot deny unvaccinated people access to events - in general - under the present stage of the pandemic. This is because the reason to do that is not sufficiently strong or acute now with most people vaccinated. The Finnish Health Institute pointed out that it is not wise to demand rules that will anger people who don't want to take the vaccine, and who may therefore be even more negative towards vaccines in the future. However, on the other hand, a new statute was just made that demands full vaccination from all people working in the healthcare sector with direct contact to patients. If this is not fulfilled, the employer will - as a first measure - try to put the person in another job without patient contact, but if that is not possible, such a person's job will vanish. <Does that mean no more vaccine passports?> see above <Does that mean no more shutdowns?> see above. Of course, if the corona situation changes for the worse, all of the above will change <Does that mean no more travel restrictions?> As far as I know, there were no other travel restrictions that vaccination passport and mask in airplanes. I don't know if this is changing, too <Does that mean no more keeping family away from sick people in the hospital?> I am afraid I don't know the rules on this point. <Does that mean no more lost jobs if you weren't vaccinated?> see above <Does that mean no more masking & vaccinations for children?> No, it does not <Does that mean children can attend in-person schools? > That has been the case here almost all the time, especially for the youngest children (unless they got the infection) |
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Professor Stalh Let's just hope that softee has time to read it before he runs out the door again, huh? |
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Stål I'm unclear what "lockdown" means. |
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Thumpy Lockdown: Pronounced "ˈläkdoun"/ noun NORTH AMERICAN the confining of prisoners to their cells, typically after an escape or to regain control during a riot. "the lockdown has been in effect since October 1983" a state of isolation or restricted access instituted as a security measure. "the university is on lockdown and nobody has been able to leave" |
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Thumper In the age of Covid it has also come to mean that certain people are not allowed to go to the beach, to the park, to bars or restaurants, or other small businesses while the large stores remain open. The selected people are told to shelter-in-place at home and only "critical", "essential" people are allowed out. Who is essential and who is allowed certain rights and freedom is, of course, determined by the government. Unfortunately the government does not follow the science and has been responsible for huge inequities, misunderstandings, poor decision making, and poor oversight, and poor transparency. |
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Stalh No, it does not. That is very unfortunate as the science tells us that the unintended consequences of children being forced to wear masks all day have been hugely harmful to them. I'll let you look up the list of problems and see what doctors and psychologists are saying about that, so that you have your reliable list and don't need to try and contradict what I say. |
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soft We all know there are some problems with mask with children, but they're nothing like getting sick and infectious with covid. |
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Soft Studies on the matter have been on going for decades, but most of the research is "maybe", because it's never been tried until now. One big problem is that a mask restricts a child from seeing facial expressio0ns during the child's speech development years (age 6 thru 9 I believe), www.cnn.com |
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Softie Here, I found the video: www.bing.com |
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dmaestro 02-Feb-22, 16:11 |
Science aside, it’s a winning issue for conservatives and a losing issue for Dems in the USA. They have exploited the campaign of misinformation started by Trump, the self fulfilling refusal to take the steps needed “proving” overreaction, premature optimism against variants, and communication missteps by experts who can’t translate the science and economic consequence to a 6th grade, low attention span “deplorable” mental level. Dems are going to pay a huge price at the polls. As I said, I’m done and not wasting anymore serious words or explanations that conservatives only twist to suit their agenda. They are NOT interested. The moral is we are just too different, conservatives have the upper hand in our system, and naively thinking otherwise has gotten Dems in trouble for many decades. If you can’t beat the conservatives with science on your side, which happens a lot in a country where a majority trusts a groundhog over scientists, you need to rethink your strategy. We Dems may well need to just segregate and protect communities where we are the majority from right wing aggression—we are not going to get anywhere in the rest of the USA and the GOP use what we try as a pretext to justify their own plans for power. |
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dmaestro 02-Feb-22, 16:13 |
Forget experts. Even a groundhog knows more about weather and climate! |
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In your propaganda spin? That's true. |
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Thumper This was a time when Stalhandske was saying we were denying science and demanding proof that it was going on. Thanks for finding the video. |
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Mo Here is a video with a slightly more dangerous tone. Kids should not be masked (imho) This is the science that progressives want to avoid. I just don't know why. Do you? www.aier.org |
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stalhandske 02-Feb-22, 20:01 |
Softaire I never said that children would be FORCED to wear masks. That was your invention, as so much more you wrote showing that you either had not read my post or then (again) decided to ignore it. I have two words to say to you for this, of which the first has four letters and the second is 'you'! |
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stalhandske 02-Feb-22, 20:16 |
It seems that you have no fleeting (lacking a better f-word) idea of what science is. That video posted by thumper is just one example of the sheer idiocy associated with corona. You (or thumper rather) chose an idiocy from one side. I won't go low enough to choose one from the other. You guys truly suck! And, to be honest, I think dmaestro suck's too, in his mantra that 'no peace is possible'. |
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Stalh We already have the CDC saying that mask are ineffective and that the "vaccine" does not stop transmission although, if you should become infected after vaccination, you may be afflicted less severely. ........................................................................................... Researchers at Johns Hopkins University have concluded that lockdowns have done little to reduce COVID deaths but have had “devastating effects” on economies and numerous social ills. The study, titled “A Literature Review and Meta-Analysis of the Effects of Lockdowns on COVID-19 Mortality,” said lockdowns in Europe and the U.S. reduced COVID-19 deaths by 0.2 percent. Shelter-in-place orders were also ineffective, reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.9%, the study said. Much more at the link: health.wusf.usf.edu |
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stalhandske 02-Feb-22, 20:41 |
Softaire It is done by a group of economists, who don't have an idea of the other side of the coin. It is obvious that the lockdowns have been devastating for the economy. Nobody denies that. The key is to balance that against the losses in disease and deaths. |
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stalhandske 02-Feb-22, 20:43 |
That's absolute bullshit, and yet another example of somebody not understanding a bit about science. |
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dmaestro 02-Feb-22, 23:39 |
I knew about that “study” and Stal is correct about the bias.. The USA is no model for pandemic response and it’s not because the measures were consistently over strict. That’s all I need to say… |
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pawntificator 03-Feb-22, 00:36 |
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Stalh The report shows that a very, very small percentage of lives have been saved. You can justify that? |
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dmaestro 03-Feb-22, 10:10 |
Since I had the WHO brief in late Feb 2000 I knew the rationale for the early mixed messaging, and I pointed out here the delay in WHO recommending masks for months without more detailed explanation was a problem. The link offers overdue insight. However the Conservatives have now so dug themselves into a hole of bias and misinformation based on their different values and mindset they can’t get out of if; and their know it all full while full of ignorance attitude has confirmed for me it’s not worth even bothering—the rest of us just have to protect ourselves as best we can. Kudos to those who can still stomach these science discussions but I now consider it a counterproductive waste of time. Frankly by now, enough is enough, and it feels good to just write them off as far as serious dialogue, they are just too different and that is that. I felt like I wanted to try, but those who wrote them off long ago and told me I was just wasting time proved correct. |
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DM |
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dmaestro 03-Feb-22, 12:07 |
It’s well known from studies but Stal may not yet realize that if you want a typical American to understand you have to communicate at a 6th grade level or lower. When you focus on just a typical conservative with their nuanced challenged and conspiracy loving mindset and type of education they get even that is too high. The complex science behind dealing with pandemics simply doesn’t fit with the way they think and communicate nor will they accept the same basic facts. They don’t even understand the problems with the “studies” and “facts” they think prove we are “wrong”. It’s all Groundhog Day in discussions, and you can’t get past it. I join those who have had enough and I am done…to paraphrase Lawrence of Arabia you can only get satisfaction realizing how foolish they are. |
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