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From	Message
dmaestro 18-Feb-22, 12:40	Keep On Dividing www.npr.org There are even serious questions about whether even efforts at civility when it’s clear we are too different are not just building a pressure cooker: unherd.com. But we know from studies these discussions only increase divisions. It’s past time to just segregate and move if needed live with our kind, admit we are just too different, and stop the pretense!
thumper 18-Feb-22, 12:56	"Keep On Dividing"? Is that a note you read to yourself every day? BTW, who is this 'we' you keep referring to?
dmaestro 18-Feb-22, 13:26	I know now we are too different, the USA will grow more divided not less and fully expect conflict. So I just watch it unfold, analyze the impact, and as evidence builds, report it. It’s unfortunate, but at least I have the satisfaction of validation over skeptics in denial. You can whitewash history all you want but the chickens of America’s fake exceptionalism are coming home. It’s nice talking here with those who agree with you—isn’t it? While the rest of us are just maddening. That is how it is…
thumper 18-Feb-22, 13:52	"So I just watch it unfold, analyze the impact." From where I sit reading your thousands of deliberately divisive posts, that's grossly untrue. You don't sit back and watch, you take an aggressive and active roll trying to divide and 'analyze' whatever divisive impact you can make. You're not fooling anyone and yes, the chickens will come home to roost.
dmaestro 18-Feb-22, 18:29	I point out the divisions and analysis on why they exist—I don’t create them. The right wing silent majority crap needs to be exposed. We know and you have boasted how easy and definitive you think civil war would be for your side. Talk gets nothing. The only wall we need is between you and us after migration to where one’s kind is. Then you can have your United Deplorable States of America to yourselves. There is more and more realization we are in conflict. Let it roll…
thumper 18-Feb-22, 19:02	DM You claim not to create division and yet your very next sentence is, "The right wing silent majority crap needs to be exposed." followed by, "Then you can have your United Deplorable States of America to yourselves." Tell us again who is trying to create conflict...
dmaestro 19-Feb-22, 08:25	I no longer try and promote unity because given our differences, studies and experience indicates it is not possible. The USA has been segregating politically for decades to awkwardly deal with the fact we are too different to just get along but it’s looking like that isn’t enough given the culture war. You should see that yourselves since less and less even bother. I guess you live in some bubble because talking politics in most places just leads to conflict.
stalhandske 19-Feb-22, 08:29	I am getting tired of this continuing mantra of 'we are too different'. Where does that lead? What should be done? I think that pertaining such an opinion is a pessimistic attitude that leads nowhere, except perhaps to violence. Is violence what you want? Do you think that will solve the problems of USA? Well, I don't.
softaire 19-Feb-22, 08:32	Stalh Well, thank you for that. We have been telling him that for some time now.
stalhandske 19-Feb-22, 08:34	Softaire Well your posts and attitude, and your direct lies, have not helped much towards easing the problem (see the other thread).
softaire 19-Feb-22, 08:49	Calling me a liar doesn't enhance my opinion of you.
dmaestro 19-Feb-22, 09:14	Stal www.npr.org I can only look at existing data and extrapolate trends. The growing segregation and polarization is real. You see the dynamics in these clubs which are no different than we see in society. I can’t be optimistic. You see us as more alike than different, but look at the details on what happens on every issue. I think you really want us to work this out but taking all emotion out of it how would that work? There is a lot of research into our differences and they are real.
stalhandske 19-Feb-22, 09:59	Softaire <Calling me a liar doesn't enhance my opinion of you.> I don't give an arse about your opinion of me. But I do about you lying about me in a public forum! I am not accusing you of this 'out of the blue'! I have written very specifically why you have been lying. You wrote that I have accused 'the right' of racism, which I have never done! Now, do you have a mirror? Have an honest look!
stalhandske 19-Feb-22, 10:02	Dmaestro <You see us as more alike than different, but look at the details on what happens on every issue. I think you really want us to work this out but taking all emotion out of it how would that work? There is a lot of research into our differences and they are real.> I don't deny that. But I think the differences are actually much smaller than they are trumpeted to be on both sides. I have in the past shown concrete examples of this. At any rate, I think it is clear that you Americans MUST discuss these differences and reach one another, because the alternative is a never-ending disgrace for your country and - at worst - a cause of violence.
dmaestro 19-Feb-22, 11:19	Stal www.northcountrypublicradio.org Technically you are correct in theory. The divisions are amplified yea by those who gain from divisions and a large minority who are hyperpartisan—but we have no effective, engages centrist party or majority to work with and no agreement on what is factual and reliable info. As well as growing segregation and impatience. So a deeper dive shows why a majority now fear we are headed for conflict. The very fact all these conservatives push the narrative is all the Dems fault and deny they have any responsibility shows in practical terms why I believe I am correct about our divisions being too great in practice.
thumper 19-Feb-22, 11:23	Everything looks bigger when you use a microscope.
dmaestro 19-Feb-22, 12:51	Stal www.usnews.com To help understand the underlying dynamics: The country is far too divided into the 9 factions indicated above to unify. Biden made unforced errors like in Afghanistan and like Obama overpromised and repeated Obama’s mistake of foolishly underestimating partisanship and not adjusting his plans and priorities to the evolving situation, this time by assuming he could unify Democrats and moderates, get back to normal on the pandemic quickly with minimal damage despite huge divisions over the pandemic and his old personal relationships with Republicans mattered. The parties are divided internally as well. And the country faces complex dilemmas not solvable by the simple solutions of partisans so you always have divisions. Biden started at high 55%!approval but that is as good as it gets these days and Dems vastly overestimated their mandate so now the bill is due.‘I I’m done looking for common ground myself. The combination of divisive factors and divisive forces are too great IMO and I have all the evidence on why I need. Those who want to try are welcome to.
dmaestro 19-Feb-22, 12:53	Thumper The devil is in the details and details matter. The microscope simply makes them easier to see. Your whitewashing doesn’t alter that.
thumper 19-Feb-22, 15:14	DM How many times can you split a hair? How many times can you divide a number? How many times can you cut the distance in half? If you keep turning up the microscope's magnification to fill the screen you can make anything look bigger than it actually is. When you practice these tactics it's easy to cause people to lose perspective of scale. The demand for racism far exceeds the supply so new words and phrases must be coined in order to reinvigorate the product and incidences must be manufactured in order to supply the demand. I assume that's your goal. Details? You mean anecdotal? I thought you were all about the controlled macro studies, and polls.
stalhandske 20-Feb-22, 20:39	dmaestro <I’m done looking for common ground myself. The combination of divisive factors and divisive forces are too great IMO and I have all the evidence on why I need. Those who want to try are welcome to. > What I don't understand is - if so - what you suggest to be the next step!

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