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 What is Truth?quid est veritas? And is it universal? Because if Truth is not true all of the time; it is not truth, but something less than truth. |
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While the natural world is subject to change of all kinds which necessarily means what may be true about a certain natural place or thing today in time that particular truth is likely to change. Truth or reality is relative to change due to outside influences. On the other hand truth regarding the composition or physical qualities of the world at large is much more complicated. This is directly related to the history of the society or country of a particular group of people. The methods for recording natural events and phenomenon, for example, have lately been brought into question. Especially as touches possible ulterior motives and maybe even prejudices. Observable data and phenomenon is being used by ordinary people who are submitting stupendous and stunning conclusions about the physical composition of the world. Closely linked with these new (actually very old) models for the world are curiousity and focus on the old established historical record itself. Did events and social changes really happen as has generally been believed? Just as skepticism has turned casual beliefs about the physical makeup of the world upside-down, so has it been so regarding the understanding of history. What is the truth about these issues? This depends on who you ask or listen to! In discussing and understanding what this means for you and me, keeping in mind the impotance of accuracy should not - can not - allow for any kind of beligerent attitudes or dismissive "why aren't we past that by now, kind of talk. He who says that they already knows surely does not. |
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Truth It’s a nice idea, but beyond human ken. |
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zorroloco Yes - just like Schroedinger's cat : You put a cat in a box. There is potentially deadly trap in the box, so that, for an outer observer, the cat is neither alive nor death. Similarly, Plato wrote "there are 3 sorts of men : the living, the death, the one on sea". |
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ptitroque 12-Jan-20, 04:52 |
Deleted by ptitroque on 12-Jan-20, 04:53.
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Nihilism |
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Huh? “the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless.” Who said anything even suggesting such a thing? |
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Just thought it seems like Naturalism cuts itself way short of much of what our world has to offer when they automatically exclude the Creator of life from their plans. Reminds me of what it must be like to suddenly go "vegan"! How boring! |
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Interesting Reminds me of what it must be like to believe in magic. How exciting! |
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By the way |
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<< offer when they invent a supreme being from their mythology to explain away their ignorance and make believe they understand reality. Reminds me of what it must be like to believe in magic. >> Whatever the source of the religous practices/ beliefs of the ancient Hebrew who/ how has it been established or documented that these beliefs were "invented"? Especially since the archeological excavations of modern (cough!) times coincide with the Biblical record. Add to that the Biblical prophecies concerning the return of the Israeli nation to their ancient homeland. The fact that this group of people have survived with their ancient identity in tact is unprecedented. Magic may be entertaining or even Occultic, but there's no - NADA - corelationship between the God of the Bible with hocus pocus. Some "ignorace" is on display here, but its not on the part of those who affirm faith in God. I apologise for disparaging vegetarism. |
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I apologize How is that not magic? |
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zorroloco I agree. It reminds me about Advanced Dungeon and Dragon, where you had Clerics and Magic users among the spell casters ! Yet, there is a difference: the religion is universal, or at least has universal pretensions - It's not especially bad, for it tends to gather people around a belief, morale and various celebrations, which is not the case with magic, often reserved to initiates or particularly gifted people. Shamanism and other believes such as pantheism, being somewhere in between. (I apologize, for this post might be slightly out of thread) |
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Ptit Yes, there are good aspects to religion, which you listed. Unfortunately it’s also used to control, separate and foster cultural sense of superiority - how not if you care the only people who God speaks to, of COURSE you’re better than others, |
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pawntificator 14-Jan-20, 19:48 |
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pawntificator 14-Jan-20, 19:49 |
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Do You Believe In Magic? How is that not magic? >> It is not magic because the Biblical God adheres to the premises and declarations about Himself and His Creation according to His expressed will as revealed within the Biblical text. The authority and power which God possesses is available to anyone who will believe in Him through genuine faith. Magic IMO is the counterfeit to God's purposes and will. Those who "practice" magic purposely seek to bring honor and recognition to themselves or the Occult powers which are contrary to God's purposes and will. Do you know of any magic pracitcitioners who have operated with the intentions of improving life, or lifting up the poor, the desittute and the outcast? en.wikipedia.org) www.youtube.com youtu.be en.wikipedia.org |
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Magic Just like you claim your religion does. Magic is outside science Just like you claim your religion is. Magic requires faith to function Just like religion. They’re the same.... You think if it’s your belief, it’s religion, but everyone else’s beliefs are magic and mythology. It’s just that you’re so wrapped in your bubble that you can’t see how you’re just in one magic bubble out of very many... and everyone in a magic bubble is convinced their bubble represents the one true faith - pagans, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, jainists, and believers in magic are all the same. Deluded bubble dwellers trying to make sense of a world distorted beyond recognition by the deforming walls of your bubble. |
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NO they are not! The Biblical God who gave his Son, Jesus, has offered us life. In all of world history the Church has been instrumental in bringing hope and supplying relief to the destitute nd the forgotten. The unfortunate record of poor representatives notwithstanding. On the other hand magic practitioners have ended in tragedy. "Suicide, Murder, and Death in the Occult – Death Magic" www.jashow.org John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. |
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Ihs For every magic related death, I can point to 1,000 perpetrated under the guise of religious dogma. This is not a fight you can win. |
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In the previous post I specifically mentioned "The unfortunate record of poor representatives notwithstanding." Already, you've alluded to being to recognize true Christianity from fakes, wouldn't those who have misrepresented genuine Christianity qualify as charlatans? More to the point it seems you've failed to associate the evil aspects of magic with the eternal enemy of God - Satan. And you've not recognized the good works of genuine Christians who truly represent God's love. "Fight"? You opened up this thread for what reason? I'll shut it down quicker than you can say "hate". |
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Truth Supports The Premise Of God "Absolute Truth" Absolute Truth - Inflexible Reality "Absolute truth" is defined as inflexible reality: fixed, invariable, unalterable facts. For example, it is a fixed, invariable, unalterable fact that there are absolutely no square circles and there are absolutely no round squares. Absolute Truth vs. Relativism While absolute truth is a logical necessity, there are some religious orientations (atheistic humanists, for example) who argue against the existence of absolute truth. Humanism's exclusion of God necessitates moral relativism. Humanist John Dewey (1859-1952), co-author and signer of the Humanist Manifesto 1 (1933), declared, "There is no God and there is no soul. Hence, there are no needs for the props of traditional religion. With dogma and creed excluded, then immutable truth is also dead and buried. There is no room for fixed, natural law or moral absolutes." Humanists believe one should do, as one feels is right. Absolute Truth - A Logical Necessity You can't logically argue against the existence of absolute truth. To argue against something is to establish that a truth exists. You cannot argue against absolute truth unless an absolute truth is the basis of your argument. Consider a few of the classic arguments and declarations made by those who seek to argue against the existence of absolute truth… There are no absolutes." First of all, the relativist is declaring there are absolutely no absolutes. That is an absolute statement. The statement is logically contradictory. If the statement is true, there is, in fact, an absolute - there are absolutely no absolutes. "Truth is relative." Again, this is an absolute statement implying truth is absolutely relative. Besides positing an absolute, suppose the statement was true and "truth is relative." Everything including that statement would be relative. If a statement is relative, it is not always true. If "truth is relative" is not always true, sometimes truth is not relative. This means there are absolutes, which means the above statement is false. When you follow the logic, relativist arguments will always contradict themselves. "Who knows what the truth is, right?" In the same sentence the speaker declares that no one knows what the truth is, then he turns around and asks those who are listening to affirm the truth of his statement. No one knows what the truth is." The speaker obviously believes his statement is true. There are philosophers who actually spend countless hours toiling over thick volumes written on the "meaninglessness" of everything. We can assume they think the text is meaningful! Then there are those philosophy teachers who teach their students, "No one's opinion is superior to anyone else's. There is no hierarchy of truth or values. Anyone's viewpoint is just as valid as anyone else's viewpoint. We all have our own truth." Then they turn around and grade the papers! www.allaboutphilosophy.org |
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Mental masturbation We just can’t know it, or, knowing it, know that it’s true. The charlatan is he who claims to know the truth. |
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Charlatans In The Minority Thanks be to God! |
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An Ordered And Dynamic Rhythm Of The Universe People of this persuasion believe that King David was inspired by such thoughts and inspired by God when he wrote Psalm 19. While each person may choose to believe that identifying different kinds of God's unique ordering is mere "mental masturbation". Modern discoveries along with the physical laws of Thermodynamics say theists are nearer to the truth about the universe. Men can look into the past for evidence that God not only interacted with mankind, but God established special covenants with some of the people as well. The record of these interactions, and or covenants are still available to us today. Whether men will look into the furthest reaches of the stars, or the deepest reaches of biology, intricately interrelated patterns will be discerned. These patterns and rhythms succour hope and are a source of great strength. From that hope and strength people can find purpose and meaning to our lives. What do we have without any purpose or without any meaning? There is a word for this - Nihilism. This was my assessment several days ago. So, what is Nihilism if not a rejecting or dismissal for God's existence? What is the evidence? "Nihilism" Nihilism (/ˈnaɪ(h)ɪlɪzəm, ˈniː-/; ) is the point of view, or philosophy, antithetical to the reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not exist at all. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist. en.m.wikipedia.org << Mental masturbation Of course truth exists. We just can’t know it, or, knowing it, know that it’s true. The charlatan is he who claims to know the truth. >> Hmm, not much difference, is there? "Nihilism" Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end . . . www.iep.utm.edu While I definitely don't want to support ANYTHING Nietzsche has to say, his assessment of the "corrosive" effects of Nihilism looks good, doesn't it? More to the point of this post, let me positively affirm that the antidote of Nihilism is Christianity. "Fr. Tim Moyle: A Christian answer to emptiness of nihilism" Many believers argue that atheism is nihilistic. Atheists respond to this contention as if it were a personal insult. This response naturally leads to an important question: What is Nihilism? Existential nihilism is defined as “the notion that life has no intrinsic meaning or value, and it is, no doubt, the most commonly used and understood sense of the word today.” Put simply, nihilists deny ‘absolutes’ exist, at least in the moral, political or social spheres. Theists disagree. They propose that such social constructs should be oriented towards their particular end which reflects an absolute good. Believers cannot hold to the tenets of faith while accepting the proposition that a society can be fruitfully nurtured without moral absolutes. They are by their particular natures, mutually contradictory propositions. The denial of the existence of ‘absolutes’ would vitiate the truth of God and His influence in this world. nationalpost.com The obvious defienciencies of the Nihilistic premises - according to the obvious accomplishments of people who are not Nihilistic - support the theistic premises. |
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But you don’t get to define it The common definition is: the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless. Or extreme skepticism maintaining that nothing in the world has a real existence. No one here has propounded either of these ideas. But I guess you just get to paint others with the brush of your cherry picked and biased definition. You are a piece of work. |
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the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless. Or extreme skepticism maintaining that nothing in the world has a real existence." And you also said, "Of course truth exists. We just can’t know it, or, knowing it, know that it’s true. The charlatan is he who claims to know the truth." Please, explian why these statements are different? |
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pawntificator 17-Jan-20, 18:44 |
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Ihs |
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