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zorroloco 13-Jan-20, 11:07	On God’s existence I’d like to dedicate this thread to debate on gods existence. I’d like to propose a No Cut n Paste Rule, to reserve this thread for our own words and ideas, which after all, we should be able to elucidate and defend. Further, although I’m not going to be uptight about it, I’d like to keep posts short (3-5 paragraphs max), and to a single point. Keep on topic. Point 1: There's no physical evidence for God. In other words, all the evidence is supposition and word play. And a desire to explain that which we do not understand.
inhis_service 13-Jan-20, 13:58	<< Point 1: There's no physical evidence for God. In other words, all the evidence is supposition and word play. And a desire to explain that which we do not understand. >> This is a fanciful and unreasonable premise for considering whether or not God exists. It predicates unreasonable assumptions. Mankind throughout history has been cognizant of values and traditional social expressions of customs such as integrity of character or loyalty and respect or bravery; Qualities that are as universal as they are undeniable. The premises suggest that the kinds of evidences which would validate the existence of God could NOT be recognized by one with such a limited perspective.
zorroloco 13-Jan-20, 14:05	Deleted by inhis_service on 14-Jan-20, 10:08.
pawntificator 13-Jan-20, 16:32	#1 There's no physical evidence for God. Everything that exists is evidence for God.
zorroloco 13-Jan-20, 17:49	How so? What you mean is you don’t understand how it started. Inventing an answer to explain ignorance is creative, but illogical. Explain how existence is evidence for god.
zorroloco 13-Jan-20, 18:38	There are no beginnings or endings. The universe is a process.
mo-oneandmore 14-Jan-20, 03:34	IHS "Proof" of God has been attempted by an abundance of famous philosophers, IHS, including Dechart. Are you attempting to place yourself in their category?
mo-oneandmore 14-Jan-20, 03:39	Believe it or not And it's easy enough to envision almost everything natural as EVIDENCE of God --- that's why most of us can only "believe" or not believe in God.
inhis_service 14-Jan-20, 10:08	<< Your argument that customs and characteristics exist without physical evidence is true, but irrelevant. God is supposed to be a being or entity capable of thought, purpose and self identity. Human characteristics are completely different. Dismissed as irrelevant. >> There is no "personal attack". If anyone posting is unable to keep the discussion objective - focused on the thread subject - I will have to delete the thread. Last warning. Also, please, multiple comments by the same person W/O corresponding responses does not constitute dialogue - will not be acceptable, either.
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 10:16	Ihs Dude... are you feeling threatened? Already threatening to delete threads for being unfocused or subjective? Read the club mission again please.
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 10:18	Besides which << Your argument that customs and characteristics exist without physical evidence is true, but irrelevant. God is supposed to be a being or entity capable of thought, purpose and self identity. Human characteristics are completely different. Dismissed as irrelevant. >> This point is valid. Your comparison is not accurate.
inhis_service 14-Jan-20, 10:44	<< Your argument that customs and characteristics exist without physical evidence is true, but irrelevant. God is supposed to be a being or entity capable of thought, purpose and self identity. Human characteristics are completely different. Dismissed as irrelevant. >> One of God's first direct interactions with the human race were with the Hebrew (Jewish) race. The historical record of the relationship between God and His people gives clear evidence that God has a plan for those who are willing to listen to what God wants. The Old Testament is solid testimony to God's blessings and judgements to the Hebrew nation in this regard throughout their history. Modern archeological excavations substantiate that historical timeline. In the dynamic relationship between God and His people we can witness a direct attempt by God to make known to His people His purposes and goals. The fortunes and the prosperity of the Jewish people are directly effected by the loyalty of the people towards, or against God. This interest between God and His people has been demontrated on through world history in the manner which certain individuals who have claimed faith in God have impacted the society they lived in. The love God demontrated through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus has been replicated numerous times and in many different ways. The truth of the Gospel of Christ still changes men's lives today. Evidence to God's eternal purposes and faithfulness.
inhis_service 14-Jan-20, 10:49	<< "Proof" of God has been attempted by an abundance of famous philosophers, IHS, including Dechart. Are you attempting to place yourself in their category? >> Never heard of "Dechart". Is he an apologist to the Christian faith? There are many such proponets, and yes, I am one IMO.
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 11:14	So you say The historical record? You mean the same book that talks about talking serpents, 900 year old men, raising from the dead, and virgin births? Ok. I guess we will just have to disagree about what constitutes evidence.
mo-oneandmore 14-Jan-20, 13:05	IHS Your: "Never heard of "Dechart"" My spelling error, IHS The correct name is "Descartes" and I don't he was much of an apologist for anything.
ptitroque 14-Jan-20, 16:53	@ Inhis There is no convincing argument, for or against the existence of God, no proofs of any sort. It's a question of belief. If you believe in something, you'll find plenty of proofs of you believe. Now we can discuss but none of us will convince the other. Personally, I try to believe as little as possible in anything (c.f. free thinkers) to stay as free as possible (anarchy). But I do not pretend that I'm right. You can think otherwise and it's okay, for me, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody (anarchy again  )
redfoxrising 14-Jan-20, 18:11	God revealed Himself to us through His word, This is what gives us the ability of rational thought. Rational thought, allows us to believe in God. Non Believers will try to disprove that there is a God.
pawntificator 14-Jan-20, 19:38	Explain how existence is evidence for god. __________________________________ Because God is the original. God is the source of all creation. You may consider it a placeholder until we figure out exactly what happened. We will never figure out exactly what happened, but what ever DID happen is God.
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 20:32	Isit I can agree with that.
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 20:35	Redfox Atheists don’t try to disprove God. It isn’t possible to disprove the existence of anything. You can’t disprove a sentient persimmon created the universe. But believing in something because it can’t be disproved is a pretty low bar
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 20:42	Isit Just to be clear, that’s an extremely loose and unorthodox definition of god and I doubt a single religious person in the world would agree with you since it virtually admits no religion knows the truth. I’ve always said I can believe in god if you allow me a loose enough definition. You’ve just done it.
pawntificator 14-Jan-20, 20:45	Certainly, whatever happened was due to God. However, God also happens to be our loving father who brought us into being so that way might understand his goodness and live well and good thanks.
zorroloco 14-Jan-20, 20:48	Ahhhh You’re wrong about that. But it’s a nice enough story
pawntificator 14-Jan-20, 20:57	I might be wrong. Hard to say for certain.
zorroloco 15-Jan-20, 05:04	Yes You very likely are. But we’ll never know for sure
zorroloco 15-Jan-20, 12:31	Not my writing But accurate. A really clever trick - and I'm not sure how the great religions have managed to pull this one off - is to make the rest of us feel that we ought to respect people for believing impossible things on faith, and that we should not laugh at them for fear of offending them. In a society that strives for honesty and openness, that values scientific and historical truth, and that encourages the search for knowledge, this is outrageous - and it's scary that we still fall for it. www.theguardian.com
pawntificator 15-Jan-20, 18:20	I've never noticed atheists in discussions like there biting their tongues out of respect, and I've been arguing about these things on the internet since Al Gore invented it.
zorroloco 15-Jan-20, 18:37	Ihs It’s about the real world. And it’s spot on When was the last time an atheist came to your door and tried to convert you. Or spoke rudely to you because you’re a believer.
pawntificator 15-Jan-20, 18:45	That's a fair point. But then, in real life Trump supporters are very respectful and polite, as well.
zorroloco 15-Jan-20, 19:52	Yeah Too bad he is such a rude, obnoxious, disrespectful oaf.
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