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 Coming "Full Circle" - How Modern Society Has Adopted Pagan IdealsFast forward to last weeks Golden Globe Awards. Michele Williams poignantly announced upon acceptance of her award that had she not had an abortion, she would not now be receiving this award. Her exact words were, "… And I wouldn't have been able to do this without employing a woman's right to choose." www.washingtontimes.com Abortion isn't a topic to be wished upon, blown off or joked about. The fact that Michele Williams thought enough of this (abortion) to include it in her "list of people and experiences for which she had to thank for her to arrive at this juncture of her career" speaks loudly that she has not put the abortion "behind her" IMO. Further, I believe she wanted to have the affirmation from the audience to assuage her conscious about taking the life of a baby. Taking that life in exchange for the "idol" which are the Golden Globe Awards. It is not too difficult an assumption that Michele Williams had a choice to make some time in the past. She had to choose between allowing an "unwanted" and "inconvenient" baby to be allowed to be born, or to terminate (sacrifice) that baby for possible acclaim and fortune. She chose to have an abortion. She chose to appease/ appeal to the fame and entertainment god with her baby's life in the hope that favor from this idol would smile on her. At the Golden Globe Awards she acknowledged that sacrifice before the whole world. |
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zorroloco 15-Jan-20, 12:16 |
Deleted by zorroloco on 15-Jan-20, 12:17.
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zorroloco 15-Jan-20, 12:18 |
Deleted by zorroloco on 15-Jan-20, 13:12.
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Ihs Yes. Paganism predates monotheism. I’m not sure why you think monotheism is more logical or any better though. As for Michelle Williams, I’d take her word for what she meant over yours. It appears paternalistic for a man with no real knowledge of her life or situation to deign to tell her what she meant. I assume what she meant is what she said... if the choice to have an abortion had been taken from her, she would not have been able to live her life as she chose. I thought she was pretty clear. She brought up because she sees people like you. It’s not to difficult an assumption that you have no qualms, as a man, telling a woman what she feels, in spite of her words. Why can’t you trust her to make her own choices? |
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The religions are slumping... It's not my fault, not your fault, its a fact. The development of science gives us keys to understand the world, so that religion is less useful The development of education for all, makes people ask themselves more questions and stop them to believe blindly what they are told. The consummation society, based on the research of individual wealth is another factor. There is no plot. It's just a societal fact. |
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@Zorroloco "In spite of her words . . . "… And I wouldn't have been able to do this without employing a woman's right to choose." Come now, let's get real, shall we? What else could she have meant? This story has nothing to do with any man or woman "deigning" to tell Michele Williams "what she meant", or "what she feels". Abortion as a means of coming to terms with terminating an unborn child (i.e. human being) because they are not welcome is an everyday "choice" today. And the "solution" for getting "rid" of a child (unborn human being) rather than dealing with a lengthy pregnancy is a common "remedy", is it not? As Michele Williams recounted all of the events leading up to her awards ceremony what else could she have meant if not to say, "Hey, I'm hip. I'm modern. I will terminate a pregnancy if its expedient for me to do so. Look at me!" What else, could she have meant? Why else bring it up? What do you think she would say (to explain her words)? Being real, now, okay? More to the point of my original post, this attitude was the attitude of the ancient pagans who sacrificed their children. They reckoned that "offering up" their own flesh and blood would bring favor for their future. Can you seriously doubt that Williams did not consider that option for herself? She had two choices and which one did she make? It was the selfish one, the one which says my own appetites are more important than this baby. It's a choice that women are making everyday. Just like the pagan women of yesterday, no? |
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@ptitroque But the rational for this "decision" of choice remains the same - selfishness, and an exchange of one path of life for the hope of another. The decline of religious affinity allows for this social change. |
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Ihs What else, could she have meant? Why else bring it up? What do you think she would say (to explain her words)? Being real, now, okay?” It’s obvious. People like you are trying to regress society to where women have no rights. Not even control over their own bodies. Williams sees this and points out that her freedom to choose allowed her to make for herself the life she wanted. You know, freedom. That’s all. Everything else is your paternalistic notions that you know her thoughts better than she does. That you know what’s good for her more than she. That you should have the right to dictate how she lives. Paternalistic nonsense. You don’t know her. Nor her situation. Yet you’d tell her what’s right for her. How about if I tell you to quit your job, move to Paris and study French art. You’d consider me an ignorant arrogant busy body. As you should consider yourself. Leave her to make her own choices, Live her own life. Stop being such a judgmental jerk. Live and let live. Once again you want to Impose your primitive moralistic views on everyone else. |
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Can you deny the similarities? Show me, please? |
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Ptit Thank god we’ve rejected God for logic and science. Leave religion to the Taliban, jihadists and fanatics. Leave society to those who embrace resin! Thomas Paine, a deist, wrote: I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. |
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Ihs You’d illegalize abortion, right? You’d put the Bible in public schools? You’d not teach evolution |
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Veering Off Topic! You’d put the Bible in public schools? You’d not teach evolution >> Similarities . . . Pagan cultures sacrificed children to idols to gain favor/ recognition from them. Modern culture sacrifice children to idols rather than deal with responsibilities of child rearing. The false idols of fame and fortune/ social acceptance. Modern culture does not recognize or give value to the unborn as were once universally acceptable. Pagan culture also did not recognize or value children as is normal in most healthy cultures. |
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Inhis Service You sacrifice something of value to please your God ! (else it has little point !) Pagan cultures did recognize the value of children and therefore sacrificed them. Abortion is not a sacrifice (nothing is sacred here) and it's allowed because the embryo is not considered as a human being. |
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Ihs This is untrue. Historically life is seen to begin at birth or after. Not conception. You just made that up. Birth, or after, is when children are welcomed into the world as people - naming ceremonies, celebrations, etc all after birth. We celebrate birthdays, not impregnation days. This is pure self serving sophistry. “Pagan culture also did not recognize or value children as is normal in most healthy cultures.” Another lie. You should be ashamed of such slander. Where is your evidence for such heinous untruths? |
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And furthermore Huh? Who made you the arbiter? Was America a ‘normal society’ when it killed off scores of millions of First People? We’re the Israelites a ‘normal society’ when they slew the Canaanites and enslaved their women because God said it was ok? |
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"Normal" Societies Recognize Unnatural When They See It In today’s culture, being pro-choice, synonymous with pro-abortion, is the widely accepted norm. Media outlets laud the supposed progress that society has made when it comes to women’s reproductive rights. However, one must wonder if this is true progress or if society is repeating gruesome mistakes of the past. The common arguments given for abortion are disturbingly similar to the arguments for both Hitler’s Holocaust and American slavery. In Mein Kampf, Hitler argued that the Jews were of a lower species because they were “less intelligent,” “did not have a state of their own,” “created financial and economical burden,” and “made no cultural contribution.”[1] These, I argue, have direct similarities to the pro-abortion arguments. Joyce Arthur, founder and executive director of Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada, writes, "a fetus doesn’t just depend on a woman’s body for survival, it actually resides in her body. Humans must, by definition, be separate individuals. They do not gain the status of human being by virtue of living inside the body of another human being– the very thought is inherently ridiculous, even offensive."[2] Hitler made frighteningly similar arguments against the Jews. He argued that they were lesser persons, if a person at all, because of their perceived parasitic status in the German nation. He writes, "The Jews live as a parasite in the body of other nations . . . . Since the Jew– for reasons which will all at once become apparent– was never in possession of a culture of his own, the foundations of his intellectual work were always provided by others. His intellect at all times developed through the cultural world surrounding him. The reverse process never took place . . . . No, the Jew possess no culture-creating force of any sort since the idealism, without which there is no true higher development of man, is not present in him and never was present . . . not through him does any progress of mankind occur, but in spite of it."[3] In the International Planned Parenthood Federation Guidelines– hereafter referred to as IPPF Guidelines –the reasons given for most abortions are “to preserve the physical or mental health of the woman,” “pregnancy after rape or incest,” “foetal impairment,” “economic” and “social grounds,” and “on request.”[4] Pro-choice intellectuals have long said that even if an unborn child is a “life,” it is not yet a “person.” During the 2016 presidential election, Hillary Clinton was quoted as saying, “The unborn person doesn’t have constitutional rights."[5] The IPPF’s guidelines on how to talk about abortion state that, “abort a child” is medically inaccurate, as the fetus is not yet a child.[6] Pro-choice intellectuals also discourage the use of the words, “baby,” “dead fetus,” “unborn baby,” and “unborn child,” again asserting that the fetus is not a baby.[7] It appears these arguments are made in the same vein as the arguments Hitler used for the extermination of Jews. He considered the Jewish people as lesser persons because they were “less intelligent,” and “made no contribution to society." Much like the pro-abortion argument that the fetus is a part of the woman’s body and is not viable on its own, Hitler argued that the Jews had no viable state of their own and were, instead, a parasite in the body of the German state. Hitler also argued for the economical drain that the Jews were on Europe. Similarly, pro-abortion activists often claim that more unplanned pregnancies will lead to more economical drain on both the individual and the state. These same activists say that single mothers are often less likely to continue higher education and seek better paying jobs. While this may be true, it does not change the fact that this is dangerously similar to the arguments Hitler made in regard to the Jews when he wrote that the Jew “destroys more and more thoroughly the foundations of any economy that will really benefit the people.”[8] Perhaps even more similar are the arguments made for American slavery. USHistory.org lists the justifications given by slaveholders for slavery as: 1 Ending slavery would hurt the economy 2 It would cause widespread unemployment 3 It has occurred throughout history and is the natural state of mankind 4 Turned to the Courts decisions (i.e. The Dred Scott Decision) 5 It was better for the Negro Slave [9] The first two reasons have been discussed above in relation to Hitler’s persecution of the Jews. I will continue with the third reason listed. It is true that abortion has occurred throughout history from ancient to modern times. There are even writings that have been found that instruct on different methods of how to have an abortion. One may argue that this makes abortion just as right and natural as any other human medical activity. However, aside from the fact that ancient medical practices have all but been thrown out in favor of modern medicine (i.e., leeching and bleeding), the fact that abortion has been around for centuries does not make it right. Slaveholders argued that slavery had been around for centuries and was the natural state of mankind. Of course, modern society would vehemently disagree, and rightly so. Just because something has been practiced for centuries does not make it right. Hitler, also, claimed that the Jews had never had their own state and had always been a lesser species than the Aryans. To Hitler and his supporters, this made the Holocaust acceptable. Man has always murdered, lied, stolen, raped, cheated, and prejudiced. This fact does not make man’s actions acceptable. This, too, finds its parallel in the argument for abortion. Roe v. Wade is the supreme court decision that ruled undue state regulation of abortion unconstitutional and paved the way for widespread abortions to occur throughout the United States. While those who are in favor of abortion point to this ruling as justification for abortion, the Dred Scott decision proves the fact that just because the court says something is lawful, it does not always make the decision moral. Norma McCorvey, Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade, interestingly enough, became a Christian after the historical decision and spent the rest of her life “as an opponent of the movement she once symbolized.”[12]Pointing to the courts alone is not sufficient evidence to justify abortion. Curiously, those who use this argument from the courts as justification for abortion, often turn against the same courts on matters they disagree on. Whether it be gun control, taxes, or foreign policy, many do not seem to hesitate to call out the court’s wrongdoings and, in doing so, they admit that the courts are not infallible. A final argument pro-abortionists use– though there are many others– parallels to the pro-slavery argument that it was better for the Negro to remain in slavery than to be freed. Modern culture would be abashed at such a statement, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, many would make the same argument to justify abortion. Those in favor of abortion would say it is better for a child not to be born at all than to be born into a situation where they are not able to be properly taken care of. This point is very weak since there are many opportunities available to the mother such as adoption, crises pregnancy centers, churches, and other charitable organizations. However, this is not the point I wish to focus on. Slave holders argued that if Negros were freed, they would not have the same care and protection their masters provided. Often, slave holders pointed to the poor living conditions of the indigent people in Europe and the North as proof.[13] Modern society today looks at this and sees the foolishness of it. In any condition, all people want to be free. If this right to freedom for the African American is true, how much more so the right to life itself? It is not justifiable to end the life of a child simply because their situation is not deemed suitable. If this were the case it would not be far of a logical jump for one to argue for the killings of all the poor in third world counties. When we start deciding whose lives are worth living and whose lives are not, we have already started down and incredibly dangerous and slippery slope. One can continue to argue for abortion and even continue to justify it to themselves and others; however, they must do so with the understanding they are using the same logic and arguments that two of the greatest evils of modern history have used. The frameworks of these arguments are too similar to ignore. The United States has the blood of millions on its hands and it will answer for it. The life of a human being, at whatever stage it is in, has intrinsic value. Value that must be acknowledged and protected. The Declaration of Independence states that “all men are created and are endowed with certain unalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”[14] The rights and life of all people must be protected no matter their age, race, or gender. All humankind is created in the image of God, and as His image bearers, each human life has unique and inherent dignity– and that is not to be treated lightly. References [1] Hitler, Adolf. “Mein Kampf: Nation and Race.” Mein Kampf: Nation and Race, www.hitler.org. [2] “Personhood: Is a Fetus a Human Being?” THE PRO-CHOICE ACTION NETWORK, Aug. 2001, www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org [3] Hitler, Adolf. “Mein Kampf: Nation and Race.” Mein Kampf: Nation and Race, www.hitler.org. [4] Terki, Fatiha, and Usha Malhotra. “Medical and Service Delivery Guidelines.” Edited by Mark Powlson, IPPF, 27 June 2016, [5] Richardson, Bradford. “Hillary Clinton’s ‘Unborn Person’ Comments Anger Both pro-Choice, pro-Life Sides.” The Washington Times, The Washington Times, 3 Apr. 2016, www.washingtontimes.com person-has-no-constitutiona/. [6] Terki, Fatiha, and Usha Malhotra. “Medical and Service Delivery Guidelines.” Edited by Mark Powlson, IPPF, 27 June 2016, www.ippf.org. [7] ibd. [8] Hitler, Adolf. “Mein Kampf: Nation and Race.” Mein Kampf: Nation and Race, www.hitler.org [9] “The Southern Argument for Slavery.” Ushistory.org, Independence Hall Association, www.ushistory.org. [10] Urofsky, Melvin I. “Dred Scott Decision.” Encyclopædia Britannica, Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., 10 Sept. 2018, www.britannica.com. [11] ibd. [12] Richardson, Bradford. “Hillary Clinton’s ‘Unborn Person’ Comments Anger Both pro-Choice, pro-Life Sides.” The Washington Times, The Washington Times, 3 Apr. 2016, www.washingtontimes.com unborn-person-has-no-constitutiona/. [13] “The Southern Argument for Slavery.” Ushistory.org, Independence Hall Association, www.ushistory.org. [14] “The Declaration of Independence: Full Text.” Ushistory.org, Independence Hall Association, www.ushistory.org. This article is reprinted with permission from the author. The original story was published here on July 16, 2019. humandefense.com |
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Why bother Please post your own thoughts and eords |
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Anyway One might be forgiven for thinking you have nothing worthwhile to add. |
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Last "Sanctuary" Under Assualt The realities of abortion do not match the “clump of cells” they’re portrayed as by the pro-abortion lobby. It’s a purely demonic procedure in many cases, and we’re not just talking about late-stage abortions. Even at earlier stages that many people find acceptable for abortions to be performed, the brutality required to murder a pre-born child is heartbreaking. These people in Great Britain learned the ugly truth after declaring the “right” to abortion must be protected, echoing the narrative being pushed by people who want to hasten society’s demise. People react to seeing an abortion; twitter.com Just as we’re firm believers most people would consider themselves conservatives if they understood the truth and weren’t inundated by leftist indoctrination in school and propaganda in the media as adults, so too do we believe if people knew what really happened in the abortion process, their views would soften. As one who believe abortion at any stage and for any reason is wrong, it’s often hard for me to share videos that can compel people to simply turn their “acceptable abortion clocks” back a few weeks. But in this cultural, spiritual, and political battle, we must often accept smaller wins in our quest for greater ones. noqreport.com |
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No one reads it. >> Tells me that you don't read them. These links provides news and information which are not reported in the corporate owned Mainstream Media. In a society which depends on getting an accurate assessment of the ongoing events unfettered access to ALL points of view are essential, wouldn't you say? [Question #1] Though you may not read the links, I'm going to take the responsibility to offer alternative views so anyone else may have a chance to read them, okay? [Question #2] << Please post your own thoughts and words >> My thoughts are in agreement with the information and views of the links which I post. This should be a "given". << Anyway It’s rude to respond to valid attempts at discourse with walls of other people words. Rude and contrary to the stated intent of this club. >> Posting views and commentary which compliment my own shows that I am not alone in the views and how much I think alike as others are thinking. Also I'm hoping that in presenting documentation and proof that others are thinking as I am, that you might be able to reassess your own views because of the changes going on in the public sphere. Or at least become aware of the changes. How exactly does my posting articles contradict the Club's "purpose"? [Question #3] Why do you think that it's rude? [Question #4] << One might be forgiven for thinking you have nothing worthwhile to add. >> Not reading what I'm posting, how much can you honestly say if it's worth while or not? [Question #5] |
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I’ve made the mistake But I’ll try again.... Nope. Equating abortions to Hitler?! What nonsense |
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No Explanation, Nor Rationale . . .? Hitler equated the Jews much the exact ways pro abortionists equate the unborn human beings. Pro abortionists continue to ignore advances in medical research which demonstrate conclusively the advanced physical development of the unborn human beings. Are you aware of these findings? "Fact Sheet: Science of Fetal Pain" lozierinstitute.org Like Hitler ignored the depravity of his hatred towards the Jews, pro abortionists continue to ignore their inhumane stance towards the unborn human beings. Why is that, I wonder? "What can science add to the abortion debate?" Which left me pondering the following question: what can a science blog bring to the table when tackling a heated moral debate like this? The answer, I believe, is something few mainstream sources address: the development of the brain and consciousness (as we understand it) in the growing fetus. thebrainbank.scienceblog.com Thankfully, Hitler and his plan didn't become realized. Will civilization say that about how we deal with abortion? |
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Thankfully Disgusting |
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pawntificator 16-Jan-20, 19:35 |
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By the way Almost 90% of UK abortions are performed within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. During this time there is no scientific doubt that the developing fetus is incapable of any form of conscious awareness. The fetal brain does not begin to develop until 3-4 weeks into the pregnancy, at which point it is little more than a hollow tube filled with dividing neurons. Between weeks 4 and 8 this neural tissue grows forming the major divisions of the adult brain (forebrain, midbrain, hindbrain and spinal cord). By 8 weeks recognisable facial features have developed and the cerebral cortex separates into two distinct hemispheres. By the end of the first trimester (12 weeks) nerve cells are beginning to form rudimentary connections between different areas of the brain. However, these connections are sparse and incapable of performing the same functions as an adult brain. So by 12 weeks, although the fetus is certainly starting to look like a little human, the neural circuits responsible for conscious awareness are yet to develop. The first trimester is also the time when around three quarters of spontaneous miscarriages occur. Miscarriages are possible throughout the pregnancy and are much more common than most people realise. One in eight women who are aware of their pregnancy experience a miscarriage, with many more occurring before the woman is even aware she has fallen pregnant. |
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pawntificator 16-Jan-20, 19:42 |
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Worms And Unborn Human Beings Therefore, although the ‘upper limit’ on abortion remains relatively arbitrary. Its current position at 24 weeks appears to fit well with both premature birth survival rates and, in terms of neural development, a time before any major connections are in place. Making it, in my eyes, as pretty good point at which to draw this line." Unborn babies can feel pain Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain Robert J. White, M.D., PhD., professor of neurosurgery, Case Western University The evidence of fetal pain With the advent of sonograms and live-action ultrasound images, neonatologists and nurses are able to see unborn babies at 20 weeks gestation react physically to outside stimuli such as sound, light and touch. The sense of touch is so acute that even a single human hair drawn across an unborn baby’s palm causes the baby to make a fist. Did you know that this 20-week-old unborn child can feel pain? Surgeons entering the womb to perform corrective procedures on tiny unborn babies have seen those babies flinch, jerk and recoil from sharp objects and incisions. “The neural pathways are present for pain to be experienced quite early by unborn babies,” explains Steven Calvin, M.D., perinatologist, chair of the Program in Human Rights Medicine, University of Minnesota, where he teaches obstetrics. Medical facts of fetal pain Anatomical studies have documented that the body’s pain network—the spino-thalamic pathway—is established by 20 weeks gestation. • “At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG).” — Dr. Paul Ranalli, neurologist, University of Toronto Fortunately, Itisyoustand, the people who are directly participating in this barbaric practice are informing us about the true nature of abortion. Perhaps, if killing these unborn human beings must continue they will find a way of anestisizing them first. Let's hope. |
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Pain What’s your point? Do you eat meat? You cause pain to living creatures. You monster! |
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Monsters That's good enough for now. |
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Well Are you even American? |
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