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 Capitalism And Other Political/ Economic And Systems of the WorldI fully agree but do you think that relations based on might, pressure and menace is the proper method to solve the world problems ? Apparently yes. This is the law of the jungle, of the prisons, of the gangs, applied to international relationships. Doubtful efficiency : in most wars, even the winner loses - the looser will seek revenge and you'll never get peace (at best temporary armistice). |
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By Zorroloco Blame capitalism, not globalization [The first post is from Ptitroroque] |
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By Zorroloco Blame capitalism, not globalization [The first post is from Ptitroroque] |
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Blame capitalism, not globalization. >> Your points taken at face value is an indictment against American political policies which were in place during most of America's history. However, dispite the great number of social injustices you have ennumerated it should not reflect on the fact that capitalism and the economic development derived from capitalism is still the best way for societies to generate prosperity and economic growth. More to the point, Capitalism offers societies the best environment for meeting with the complexities and unexpected clashes which may result in an upwardly prosperous and dynamic community. "Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Is Morally Superior" Talk about capitalism’s moral superiority the next time you hear someone parroting the politicians, entertainers, academics, clerics, and professional rabble rousers who are all bemoaning the failures of capitalism. Their only answers are to dust off the same old prescriptions that have been tried, tested, and found wanting again and again. As the owner of a contracting business, do you feel you are under attack? You should. You are. Capitalism and the free enterprise system are under the most relentless assault seen in the post war era. As a contractor you operate within the capitalist system, but may not feel comfortable defending it. Here are ten reasons why capitalism is morally superior to socialism, or statism (i.e., power and decisions are vested in the state or government). Talk about capitalism’s moral superiority the next time you hear someone parroting the politicians, entertainers, academics, clerics, and professional rabble rousers who are all bemoaning the failures of capitalism. Their only answers are to dust off the same old prescriptions that have been tried, tested, and found wanting again and again. 1. Capitalism Promotes Freedom 2. Capitalism Promotes Cooperation 3. Capitalism is More Optimistic 4. Capitalism Believes in People 5. Capitalism Promotes Equality 6. Capitalism Promotes Emulation 7. Winners Under Capitalism Deliver Value 8. Capitalism Results in Better Outcomes 9. Capitalism is Consistent With the Human Condition 10. Capitalism Protects the Planet What About the Poor? It is worth noting that before the government created the welfare state, the poor were taken care of through Mutual Aid Societies. (1) These were collections of people who supported each other in times of need. In short, they acted as private welfare organizations. Because they were relatively small, there was less potential to game the system and become permanent welfare recipients. The administrators of the Mutual Aid Societies personally knew who was able to work and who was trying, which is an impossibility with the modern welfare state. (1) mises.org Contractors are Capitalists – Defend It! www.contractingbusiness.com The tried and true American Capitalistic and Economic systems which built the American Republic is a fact of World history. |
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@ Inhis Just one example : Ford said that he paid his workers well, so that they buy him more cars. The actual car producers pays his workers as little as possible so that he earns more money immediately and, if necessary, product in China. - for capitalism is globalised as well. |
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@ Inhis : 10 reasons cited above Change capitalism by communism and it works for more than half of the above sentences ! |
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Ihs Your list of ten benefits of capitalism is a wish list, not an actual list of benefits. Furthermore, your premise that capitalism is morally superior is wrong. There is nothing morally superior about a system that pits people against each other and other communities in a race to exploit the natural world and other people in a mad dash to accumulate more and more lucre as the end goal. It’s pure self interest and greed... nothing moral about it. |
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Inhis about capitalism Do we want a social system based on competition between individuals, social groups, countries... or Do we prefer a social system based on solidarity and cooperation between individuals, social groups, countries... Note that the argument of efficiency doesn't work. Some animal species, some human organizations based on cooperation rather than on competition work very well. It depends on the environnement and the context. As for me, I prefer a system based on solidarity, cooperation and mutualisation between individuals and groups rather than competition, for it'll be less violent, less stressing and the amount of time and energy spent competing with others can be used for other purposes and because we would be happier (not only the poor but also the rich who are stressed to lose what they have !) If you consider that the more competition, the better... this discussion is rather useless. |
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Important thought “Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy.” ~ Wendell Berry |
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@Zorroloco "The Collapse of Communist Economic Theory" Communism has failed for forty-three years to produce enough goods to keep abreast of Russia‘s normal population growth. The living standards of the great majority of the Russian people today are no more comfortable than were the mass standards of the much smaller Russian population under the Czar in the years 1900-1914. In food supply, housing, education, transportation, and gross national product, Russian per capita standards today are far and away the poorest in all Europe. Communism -- wholly lacking in the basic drives of individual incentives and saddled by a backbreaking enforcement bureaucracy -- simply cannot produce the goods and services required to sustain a flourishing and expanding nation. Inside Russia today, Marxist economic theory is under withering attack, even by certain sections of the Khrushchev high command. To refer to Russia as a first-class power is to revert subconsciously in our economic thinking to the era of the 1880's in America. fee.org You have latched onto the worst political and social institution which has ever plagued mankind. And at the same time attacked the best political and social institution the world has been blessed to experience in this tansitory life we share with other human beings. "Yesterday's Communist Is Today's Progressive" "Communism" , wrote Whittaker Chambers, "is what happens when, in the name of mind, men free themselves from god. Man does not, as a rule, become a communist because he is attracted to communism, but because he is driven to despair by the crisis of history through which the world is passing. The communist party has the least to offer a man bent on personal advantage. For the intellectual of any ability, it has nothing whatsoever to offer in the way of gain…it only offers those who joined it the certainty of being poor and pariahs…for the party must always demand more than it gives." Communism, like socialism, attacks the principle of private property as it holds in contempt the liberty of each individual. In his Critique of Socialism , Alexis de Tocqueville summarized the ideology of progressives by writing the following: "They unceasingly attempt to mutilate, to curtail, to obstruct personal freedom in any and all ways. They hold that the State must not only act as the director of society, but must further be master of each man, and not only master, but keeper and trainer. For fear of allowing him to err, the State must place itself forever by his side, above him, around him, better to guide him, to maintain him, in a word, to confine him. They call, in fact, for the forfeiture, to a greater or less degree, of human liberty, to the point where, were I to attempt to sum up what socialism is, I would say that it was simply a new system of serfdom." Tocqueville goes on to conclude that "Socialists offer us, a formal, regimented and closed society where the State has charge of all, where the individual counts for nothing, where the community masses to itself all power, all life, where the end assigned to man is solely his material welfare." This ideology does not value each man at his highest, as it makes of each man an agent, an instrument, and a number for it desires equality in constraint and in servitude. Progressivism is anathema to the principles that founded America and it is destroying this country from within aided by both parties in Washington, compounded by the sheer extent of the public's willful ignorance. thenewstalkers.com |
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Ihs That's too easy to answer, His: The American worker can compete with world workers in China, etc by being as highly motivated, dedicated, and skilled as the Chinese worker. Finally: I suspect that your gripe is attacking the wrong source , his, because American Big Business decides the cost of living in America by deciding how much they want to sell their garbage products to us. And then we, like drones, flock to America's Big Businesses to buy some water and bread, etc, right? |
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@Mo-one Oh, you must mean the ones you buy to live? Those choices are all evidence of the Successful and Dominant force which Capitalism makes available. My "gripe" is with Progressive Communist saying how bad American is while wallowing in our prosperity! Looking a gift horse in the mouth kind of thing. |
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Who are "progressive Communists, IHS? Here's the website of America's two largest groups--- the two just merged. They're total membership is less than 100,00. www.aravot-en.am Isn't 10 K numbers, among 300,000,000 people a rather small value (1/30,000) to pitch a big "gripe" about? Your friendly gun owners in America number over 200,000,000 million you know, so they can take care of those 20,000 Commies easy. So Why are you afraid of them IHS, and why don't you ask God to help you? |
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@ Inhis You didn't answer my question (which is not advocating communism !). Do you prefer a society based competition between individuals, groups, nations ? Or a society based on solidarity and cooperation ? It's a harder problem than to choose between communism and capitalism, for the choice is yours. The mainstream or alternative media, nor the Bible won't give you the answer. |
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Or a society based on solidarity and cooperation ? >> Who has such principles as solidarity and cooperation? This sounds very suspicious of the Socialist Philosophy! "THE LIES OF SOCIALISM" The principal fallacies of Socialism--and of the Left generally--fall into two categories: The first are those that deny the realities of Nature; the realities of God's Creation as they relate to human interaction. The second are corollarial to the first and involve deliberate distortion of issues involved in a debate on policy, or in correctly identifying factions in pursuit of power. www.truthbasedlogic.com |
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ptit Thanks for clarifying that again, Ptit. It was, again (and again ), well stated. |
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@Inhis I have the impression that Jesus taught otherwise but let's let this consideration aside ! You wrote me once that you pity me, for I've no hope. The situation is now absolutely reversed. The human being extirpates himself from the nature by studing sciences, philosophy... We are able to discuss, to cooperate, we can change our future. We are not bound in the chains of our natural instincts. We are free (God made us free, didn't he ?) At least, there might come a day when we'll be free. We could decide to make a more peaceful world, it's up to us. If God's plan is to keep us following the law of the jungle, then we have to challenge him and free ourselves from this evil destiny, this chain of bondage he wants us to stay in. This is my choice. You once wrote that "we" have to pay attention to your reactions, that you were ready to fight for your ideas. Now I understand better. It's perfectly coherent. You side with the lion and the tiger's legitimacy. Indeed we are not in the same camp and yes, we'll have to fight. Actually, the fight has begun a few years ago (at least since Jesus said "what you do to the smallest of mine, you do it to me"), and yourself have to admit that our camp has beeing scoring goals since that time. |
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Because the Differences Are As Plain As "Black and White"! "Why Does Socialism Always Fail?" (FIRST POINT) Actually, it is interesting to note that socialism in the 20th century did achieve a form of equality after all, but only in the form that all people in socialist countries were equal in their misery and poverty. Why does socialism always fail? Socialism is incompatible with the most basal and rudimentary principles of human behavior. Just like an animal has to be trained to perform a particular behavior through positive reinforcement, humans will generally not perform any act of labor unless there is acceptable incentivization. Incentives are central to a free market system: indeed the entire essence of the free market economy is to provide an elegantly interconnected infrastructure of incentives to drive and direct the socio-economic framework of the nation. www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com "The Pilgrims' Failed Experiment With Socialism Should Teach America A Lesson" www.offthegridnews.com Whereas those societies which have endeavored to practice forms of government whice were modeled after the American - allowing citizens of a nation to choose leaders and modes of financial structures based on a mixed economic system - invaribly fared with positive and prosperous results. INVARIBLY! "Democracy and economic growth: New evidence" (SECOND POINT) The study Our central estimates suggest that a country that switches from non-democracy to democracy achieves about 20% higher GDP per capita in the long run (over roughly the next 30 years). These are large but not implausible effects, and suggest that the global rise in democracy over the past 50 years (of over 30 percentage points) has yielded roughly 6% higher world GDP. voxdev.org "The Democracy Dividend: Faster Growth" Contrary to popular misconception, authoritarian regimes rarely get the job done. Nowadays democracy's rap sheet is longer. It is blamed for gridlock, ineffectiveness, inability to reform and, of course, the election of flawed characters such as the current occupant of the White House. With all of these dysfunctionalities, it's no surprise that democracies are having economic problems. And isn't it the case anyway that democracy isn't so good for economic growth? Actually the truth is quite a bit different. Democracy is good for economic growth. Countries that democratize -- switch from a nondemocratic regime such as a military dictatorship, monarchy or autocracy to a democratic regime -- grow more rapidly in the next 20 years or so, and end up with 20 percent higher income per capita. www.bnnbloomberg.ca Communist/ Socialist/ and Progressive Agenda advocates may point to China's economic development as a possitive point of reference. But at what cost? The cost of their individual liberties and ability to pursue individual dreams/ aspirations. "China Human Rights" (THIRD POINT) The broad and sustained offensive on human rights that started after President Xi Jinping took power five years ago showed no sign of abating in 2017. The death of Nobel Peace Prize laureate Liu Xiaobo in a hospital under heavy guard in July highlighted the Chinese government's deepening contempt for rights. The near future for human rights appears grim, especially as Xi is expected to remain in power at least until 2022. Foreign governments did little in 2017 to push back against China's worsening rights record at home and abroad. The Chinese government, which already oversees one of the strictest online censorship regimes in the world, limited the provision of censorship circumvention tools and strengthened ideological control over education and mass media in 2017. Schools and state media incessantly tout the supremacy of the Chinese Communist Party, and, increasingly, of President Xi Jinping as "core" leader. Authorities subjected more human rights defenders -- including foreigners -- to show trials in 2017, airing excerpted forced confessions and court trials on state television and social media. Police ensured the detainees’ compliance by torturing some of them, denying them access to lawyers of their choice, and holding them incommunicado for months. In Xinjiang, a nominally autonomous region with 11 million Turkic Muslim Uyghurs, authorities stepped up mass surveillance and the security presence despite the lack of evidence demonstrating an organized threat. They also adopted new policies denying Uyghurs cultural and religious rights. Hong Kong's human rights record took a dark turn. Hong Kong courts disqualified four pro-democracy lawmakers in July and jailed three prominent pro-democracy student leaders in August. www.amnestyusa.org "Organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners in China" en.wikipedia.org Ptitroque talks of "solidarity and cooperation" - which he can have if he so chooses. Americans who love our heritage of individual entruanership and individual aspirations to live up to our God given potential will never trade comfort and state control for these! "WHY AMERICA WILL NEVER BE A SOCIALIST COUNTRY" (FOURTH POINT) Despite the apocalyptic warnings of right-wing wackos and the lobbying of lame-brain hipster leftists, there's more than a few reasons why the U.S. won't ever embrace socialism as an economic practice. I've noticed something rather peculiar about all of the people I have met that purport to be proponents of "socialism" -- i.e., that economic-political system that involves public ownership of stuff and collectivism and municipalization (1) and the Nordic model (2) and probably a whole bunch of other things that sound good in theory but are next to impossible to implement as models in the U.S. The thing that strikes me most about these in-name-only socialists is that, by and large, they are some of the most capitalistic mofos I have ever encountered. Not once…once…have I ran into a pro-socialist American that seemed to be making less than 400 percent the federal poverty line (the best measure out there to determine who exactly is middle class, in case you were wondering.) (3) These incessant Debs quoters, (4) it dawns upon me, AREN'T a repressed underclass of laborers, peasants and unorganized workers. In fact, not only are the pseudo-socialists anything but victims of capitalism, in just about every instance I can think of, these so-called socialists are actually members of the neo-bourgeoisie they claim to hate with a fiery passion. (1) en.wikipedia.org (2) en.wikipedia.org (3) aspe.hhs.gov (4) en.wikiquote.org internetisinamerica.blogspot.com The proof for this is seen everyday in the popularity of President Trump's "America First" and "Make (ing) America Great Again". The collapase of the Democratic Party's numbers is also telling of America's preference for Freedom over (false) "Security" as offered by Communism/ Socialism/ and the Progressive Agendas! (FIFTH POINT) "POLITICS-GOVT Black voter support of Trump quadrupled since election" Two recent polls show a colossal shift of black voters now supporting President Donald Trump -- up from just 8% in 2016 to more than one in three African American voters today. "Both Emerson and Rasmussen are reporting black American support for President Trump is at 34%," (1)Rasmussen tweeted Sunday. A jump in Trump popularity twitter.com "Poll: More Than 80 Percent of Americans Support Trump's Trade Economic Nationalism" www.breitbart.com What Can Be More "Black and White"? |
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@ptitroque Why do you misinterpret America's political foundations for our Freedoms which are given to us by God with our Government's right to protect and promote these Freedoms? Especially in light of how history has proven - OVER AND OVER - that alternative forms of government enslave, kill and imprison their citizens? Why? Why? And why do not answer my questions? << This is my choice. You once wrote that "we" have to pay attention to your reactions, that you were ready to fight for your ideas. Now I understand better. It's perfectly coherent. You side with the lion and the tiger's legitimacy. >> Again, you reverse the true nature of this war of Ideologies! It is ALWAYS THE Communist, the Socialist and the Progressive which uses BRUTAL FORCE to make their people comply not the Americans! << Indeed we are not in the same camp and yes, we'll have to fight. Actually, the fight has begun a few years ago (at least since Jesus said "what you do to the smallest of mine, you do it to me"), and yourself have to admit that our camp has beeing scoring goals since that time. >> Your theology is as skewed and backwards as your endorsement of Freedom hating politics. |
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@ Inhis I do not misinterpret it, for I do not interpret it but I'm almost sure that the first settlers had a sense of community and of solidarity. This was the only way to survive. Now their heirs are rich and powerfull, so that they keep only what arranges them. There were other times, anyway. The actual USA have (geographically) not a lot to do with what the founding father found (plenty of space to settle, plenty of resources for each one, rivers full of fishes and plenty of animals to hunt and some savages which you'd the right to massacre if it pleased you. All in all I do not really care about the Pilgrim Fathers, except as a curiosity. I estimate that I do not have to care either about Napoleon, the General de Gaule or Joan of Arc and their societal choices. I try to make my own opinion about the life and the society. How can you pretend to be free if you do not think on you own ? As for the economic question, I'll answer later |
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Ihs No it doesn’t. It’s alive and well in the most prosperous countries in the world. I think the problem is you don’t understand socialism. To you it’s just a catch all bogey man you toss into a salad bowl with a bunch of other words you’re scared of. Humanism, atheism, communism, Darwinism, globalism and socialism make a poisonous salad for you. A little xenophobic salad dressing and you have a movable feast you use to dispense with any idea that challenges your provincial world view. |
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@Zorro - Witnesses KNOW BETTER youtu.be "Cuban Who Windsurfed 90 Miles To Escape Socialism . . ." youtu.be Come back . . .? |
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Ihs So what? The problem is you can’t differentiate socialism and fascism. Makes conversation difficult |
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@Zorroloco You are talking out of your arse! How on God's green earth, can you POSSIBLY compare American Freedom to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan? In fact, unless you can provide documentation for your assertions - provide SOME PROOF for your false and vitriol laced post they're going to be deleted! Don't dawdle! |
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Ihs No more than you can compare Venezuela and Cuba with functioning social democracies. That’s my point. |
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Threats of deletion Isn’t this the “First True Freedom of Speech Club?” 🤣🤣 |
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@ Inhis There are a few notions, principes you stick to, a few arguments to defend them and the rest of the world, of science, of philosophy, of cultures is evil and confused. You live in a besieged castle, surrounded by foes. Any information from outide your rempart which doesn't suit you, is considered as an attack, and therefore rejected. What a strange way of considering life ! |
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Ptit |
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@Zorroloco Functioning Socialistic Democracies . . Such as . . . ? |
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@Zorroloco Isn’t this the “First True Freedom of Speech Club?” >> Ah, there are NEW Etiquette Guidelines listed on the Gripes thread. Better get acquainted with them, sir. |
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