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lord_shiva 31-Oct-21, 11:12	Covid... The Bioweapon Softaire posted a horse biscuit link to a false, lying meme regarding Spain taking medical researchers to court over the Covid vaccine or that the virus is not real or some such ignorant nonsense. I was going to post a response but Stalhandske did a far better job (as usual). His comment is below: Efficacy of covid vaccine Those politically rooted comments about this vaccine are not only stupid but actually pose danger to health and lives, too. It is quite clear that the efficacy of vaccines against viral diseases varies considerably. This is particularly typical of vaccines against viruses with a high mutation frequency. The current corona virus has at this moment over 12,000 mutations (!), and the number increases steadily. This is the major reason why the vaccines' efficacy decreases with time. This phenomenon is by no means new. We have become used to this with the influenza viruses against which new vaccines are made every year. The current corona vaccines truly save lives! This is quite obvious from the statistics which is very extensive at this point. Not taking the vaccine (i.e. without a clear medical reason) is irresponsible because it helps the generation of new virus mutants. It is true that - statistically - the elderly (and some disease groups) are particularly vulnerable to covid-19 infection. Vaccination prevents the infection in most cases, and reduces the symptoms in most other cases, thus saving lives. But all of this very clear innformation is constantly and intentionally blurred by people like Softaire, who (in the NG club) reports claims that Spain takes her health minister to court about corona decisions. Absolutely false information, again helping antivaxxers to support their 'case'. Shame on such behaviour! --Stal In addition, there Stalhandske posted a factual link addressing the lie in Softaire's deceitful, fallacious, Russian troll meme. When public discourse is polluted by toxic filth it is like shackling a race horse. Why is it conservatives show up to the races not with truth or even decent ideas, but shackles and horse dewormer? A competing idea is one thing. They no longer have competing ideas. They just repeat stupidity fed them by Groper's Russian contacts and handlers, MAGA.
lord_shiva 04-Dec-21, 23:22	Bioweapon, or Hoax? Seems people are taking family members out of ICUs to bring them home where they can be treated with horse dewormer and the Trump Protocol. Trump Protocol is nebulized hydrogen peroxide, inhaled. Very dangerous, and of course glaringly stupid. Branch Covidians.
pawntificator 04-Dec-21, 23:27	Horse dewormer? Oh, right. You have no intention of being truthful.
thumper 04-Dec-21, 23:40	If you're a conservative and eat apples and whole grain, the radical left will characterize you as eating horse food. Anything to try and smear you.
lord_shiva 05-Dec-21, 00:57	Horse Dewormer Your local farm apply store has not been able to keep ivermectin in stok for months. Why pay exorbitant pharmaceutical prices when you can get horse dosage for a fraction of the cost? Also--nice try--accusing me of lying. Glad you are so eager to keep it civil.
pawntificator 05-Dec-21, 01:01	You are lying when you say that I accuse you of lying, I said you didn't intend to be truthful based upon your characterisation of ivermectin as solely a horse dewormer.
lord_shiva 05-Dec-21, 01:19	Oh? Aren't you flat out lying by claiming I characterized ivermectin as solely a horse dewormer?
thumper 05-Dec-21, 10:04	Quite a few medications such as antibiotics are suitable for both animal and human. They're used in both applications and are often produced on the same production line and have identical FDA requirements. Divert to the left for livestock and to the right for human. The only difference is dosage size. A thousand pound horse requires a different dosage than a 180 pound human. The rule of thumb is to use the same dosage for a human as used for an equal weight pig. Also, off label usage of drugs is common practice in the medical field.
pawntificator 05-Dec-21, 10:41	"Aren't you flat out lying by claiming I characterized ivermectin as solely a horse dewormer?" No, because you did. It's like you work for CNN.
lord_shiva 05-Dec-21, 11:23	Look Compare farm supply sales of ivermectin to drug store sales. It is a prescription drug, not OTC. Thumper is also a bit disingenuous regarding veterinary medicines. The quality controls are NOT identical. And it isn't just tamper proof packaging on the human grade medicine. It is a common belief, and true in some cases, that the medications are produced identically. Vitamin suppliers and homeopathic medications don't have more stringent human measures. You can probably find a few other medicines where the animal variety offers only by dosage. Frequently pills have timed coatings, tuned to the digestive tract of the target species. Also, more horses suffer worm infestation than humans, which is why Merck sales the bulk of domestic ivermectin to farm supply chains. Your local pharmacy doesn't stock it but will order it for you--with a proper prescription. What is the shelf life of ivermectin? It doesn't matter. There was little call for it in the US before the Branch Covidians promoted it. What does Merck say? They say do NOT use veterinary ivermectin on humans, that it isn't the same, and do NOT use it to treat viral infection--that no legitimate studies have shown any advantage for this off label use over a placebo. Furthermore, there are side effects. These are less troublesome than worms or the other legitimate uses, but adding complications to someone suffering respiratory distress is just a big mistake. Funny how hydrochloroquine has nearly disappeared as a counter factual conspiracy treatment, but the Trump nebulized hydrogen peroxide disinfectant protocol has replaced it. Pleas do NOT inhale hydrogen peroxide. Further damaging lung alveoli under threat from Covid infection is an all around bad idea.
lord_shiva 05-Dec-21, 12:27	Pondering I'm am thankful you and your wife both recovered absent any apparent ill effect. My dad was a smoke jumper, before I was born. In touring a fire fighting facility somewhere I remember they gave me a stair test. You do your heart rate, then run an elevated treadmill awhile, and another heart rate. They probably add blood oxygenation and other data now. Have you ever taken one of these tests? It would be interesting to compare pre Covid and post Covid results. I hear a lot of people suffer long term debilitating effects post Covid, often without realizing it. While I put little stock in personal anecdotes--people are notoriously unreliable sources of information--the stair test physical numbers are hard to debate. Doctors say they are seeing a lot of long term disability, but again I don't have any idea how much credence to give that. Friends of mine stricken with the illness seem to have recovered. I have one friend who spent a week in an ICU, and I attended a lecture he gave a few weeks ago. Did not get a chance to ask in detail about his recovery, but he seemed to be doing well. Like my other friend of close to the same age who passed away, neither of these guys had comorbidities. But obviously that IS a big factor in any epidemic mortality stats. Not quite the same as musclassifying firearm blunt force trauma with viral infection--but if you would likely have survived had you not been infected (or shot in the head), then it is hard to disparage the actual cause of death. We do know Covid accounts for a substantial fraction of the 800,000 deaths because US life expectancy has fallen by close to twenty four months. That isn't because of any sudden surge in elementary and high school shootings misattributed to Covid.
pawntificator 05-Dec-21, 15:20	I don't know your target audience, but I asume they must be intelligent. Problem is that more kids are shot in Chicago than are killed by Covid nationwide. Try to regroup and make your talking points more relatable. Maybe cry a little bit about the dead babies. Oh wait, you support abortion.
lord_shiva 05-Dec-21, 19:55	Nice Cherries I guess you can say almost anything if you pick your cherry carefully enough.
stalhandske 05-Dec-21, 20:35	<Problem is that more kids are shot in Chicago than are killed by Covid nationwide. > Another completely stupid comparison, only possible by a troll. Why compare two entirely unrelated issues unless you want to confuse the discussion on both. This is precisely what trolls do.
thumper 05-Dec-21, 20:54	Which is more deadly to children and which has the 'right crowd' wringing it's hands demanding action?
stalhandske 05-Dec-21, 21:04	Thumper I fail to understand your logic. Of course, kids shot in Chicago is a huge problem (one that I personally know nothing about in detail). My point was: why relate or contrast this to covid-19? It seems to me again as the 'right' (thumper in this case) confuses two things that are entirely unrelated with one another. As it seems - only for some cheap political bonus?
lord_shiva 05-Dec-21, 22:57	No, Thumper has a good point. Until we solve every other problem facing us, it is stupid to take any reasonable action against senseless gun violence or the spread of pandemic. If old people must die horribly, that is just the sacrifice we must make so as not to inconvenience ourselves in the slightest. I mean, pro life means if I must lift a finger to save another life--screw it. No way am I taking twenty precious minutes out of my year to get a shot!

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