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stalhandske 04-Dec-21, 20:59 |
 US constitutionI found this to me very odd comment in another club. In fact written by the founder of that club. Is there a misunderstanding of what a democracy is? Or is this just trolling? Previously, he has downgraded democratic majority principles as 'mob rule'. So, one keeps wondering what kind of 'system' would satisfy such thinking. |
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Is one still confused? |
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pawntificator 04-Dec-21, 23:10 |
Deleted by redfoxrising on 06-Dec-21, 20:28.
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stalhandske 05-Dec-21, 01:10 |
Thumper Is one still confused?> I think you are the one who is confused. Below, I have cited a recent comment on this by bobsprigett: <I think this is a reference to something said by one of the Founding Fathers. Benjamin Franklin, I beleive, who said that the United States would be 'a Republic, not a Democracy'. This has to be understood in terms of what Franklin meant by those words. In the late 18th century, the only example of 'Democracy' was Athens. The Athenian Democracy was one in which decisions were made by whoever turned up at the meeting. Easy for a dishonest orator to sway a bunch of people who had nothing better to do, like work for a living. Or even bring his own 'rent-a-crowd'. We get our word 'demagogue' (literally 'people-leader') in this way. It was chaotic, not far removed from mob rule. This compared to the Classic Roman Republic. This Republic also allowed for popular input (SPQR = 'Senatus PopulusQue Romanus' = The Senate and Roman People), but the People effectively decided only whether or not to veto the decisions already made by the Senate. The Senate were the top echelon of nobility, membership being by the greatest wealth in specific 'senatorial' categories such as land holdings. There was also an effective 'constitution' provided by the Twelve Tables and the Mos Maiorum. So what Franklin meant when he said 'a Republic, not a Democracy' was that the upper classes would make the decisions, but those decisions could not be arbitrary. They would be made in accordance with the Constitution. The People would also have their influence; they would choose WHICH members of the upper class would make the laws. This is why so much about American politics is indirect. Nor only Congress being representative (which we take as normal these days), but also the President being elected by the Electoral College instead of directly, and the Constitution itself being amendable only by State Legislatures instead of directly by popular vote. The chaos of Athenian Democracy would be tempered by ensuring that everything the ignorant People wanted would have to pass through the educated, refined, enlightened Upper Class first. In the context of modern Americans, there is a deep distrust of 'The System' by certain sections who feel they they are always being played for suckers. This is because they ARE being played for suckers, usually because the ARE suckers. They keep on demanding simple answers to complex questions; so they vote for some snake-oil salesman who offers a simple solution. When it fails, as all simple solutions will, they feel that 'The System' is the problem, not their own credulity. Hence, their inherent distrust. If they ever got exactly what they wanted, they would probably be even more disappointed and angry because it turns out to be even worse than what they DIDN'T want. Trump's presidency is the perfect example of a simple solution that failed even worse than 'the Establishment' solution; but Trumpists still blame the Establishment for their own failings.> |
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stalhandske 06-Dec-21, 19:52 |
Thumper |
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deleted thread Nothing Exploded |
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stalhandske 06-Dec-21, 20:35 |
redfox |
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nothing_exploded please demote yourself Used a BS link that asked is this trolling. demote yourself and also leave the club Without being the founder I have no way to remove a mod |
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stalhandske 06-Dec-21, 20:50 |
I think you actually have such means - in principle - but it is bound to lead to a disaster where the target turns back to remove the 'remover'. This leads to an infinite sequence that I have seen at least one example of in the past. But one other thing remains unclear to me: where do you see this recent trolling by nothing_exploded? |
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this was removed posting is now removed |
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I'm sure this can be taken down |
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stalhandske 06-Dec-21, 20:58 |
But, mon Frere, that is here an impossible demand because your moderator colleague is a troll by definition! |
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I'm aware and I believe He will demote himself With all this attention He may just roll around in it and really show off The new owners of GK will most likely remove him and poof! He will be gone again. Lets see if he makes a new club to replace this one. |
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Stål "An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic." This definition describes most of LS and DM's posts. Do you disagree? |
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pawntificator 07-Dec-21, 00:00 |
Know your memes, people: knowyourmeme.com I am sorry that redfox has gotten upset but I do not know why. |
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pawntificator 07-Dec-21, 00:04 |
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stalhandske 07-Dec-21, 05:20 |
Thumper "An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic." This definition describes most of LS and DM's posts. Do you disagree?> It is evident to me, based on your above definition of 'troll', that I have been mistaken all the time. The reason is that I have thought/understood 'troll' quite differently. In my mind trolling was not defined as (necessarily) intentionally inflammatory, rude or upsetting, but mainly the insertion of posts or comments aimed at either diluting away an ongoing discussion, or to intentionally steer it off track (that part I agree with) with irrelevant nonsense or introduction of a completely different topic. Disturbance in other words. When it comes to LS and DM, I have never experienced them as trolling, but not because of what you say, but because of my false definition of that term. When it comes to 'intentionally inflammatory, rude or upsetting' I think that LS can sometimes be accused of that, especially if 'satiric' is included. I don't think that fits very well on the activities of dmaestro. |
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joke is funny Please lets not continue discussing non-members in this club for reasons they are not here to answer back |
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Time to start a new thread How about JOKE |
