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From	Message
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 05:13	Vaccine-free, not even a little bit hesitant You will find this thread in the NG club with posts by Thumper and Nothing. How come you guys have becoem so quiet now on this issue when your idol, ex-president Trump, has suddenly spoken in favour of covid vaccination? No, you won't have the guts to joun the buuu-club; I predict solid silence.
lord_shiva 24-Dec-21, 07:51	Trump Ex president Trump received the booster, despite "natural immunity" from an infection that came closer to killing him than he cares to publicly admit. I guess getting so sick scared some sense into him. My wife and I lost a friend to Covid two months ago. 52, no comorbidities. He went very fast.
lord_shiva 24-Dec-21, 07:53	Warp Speed Biden praised Trump for his effort on Warp Speed, the development of reliable vaccines. Would Trump have ever acknowledged good things done by Obama? Did he ever?
softaire 24-Dec-21, 11:16	What I wonder is why you guys continue to spread yoour special hate at a previous president who is not in office, not a problem to you, and has his own problems going on all the time. Why would you not consider asking the question of why you and the progressives are mandating the masking of young children when it has been shown by doctors, psychologists, and educators that masking of young children has been, and continues to be, very detrimental to their health, their ability to learn, and the ability to adapt because of loss of brain function and psychological development because of the mask wearing at a young age? Why would you continue to bad mouth Trump when there are so many Biden failures that could be rectified?
thumper 24-Dec-21, 11:54	Softie The answer to your question is obvious. It's a coordinated protection racket. It's all about diverting any unwanted attention away from Biden and keeping their base whipped up and energized in a perpetual state of anger and hate for Trump. It's all about changing the subject and playing on the emotions they've manufactured. They're all about emotional manipulation and truth be told, they're very practiced and good at it.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 20:58	Softaire and Thumper I was wrong! I predicted silence to my initiative, but I was mistaken. Which is very good! But I have some problem. Softaire starts by saying that 'we' spread 'special' hatred towards the former president Trump. Please, do read my introductory post once again. Then ask yourself: did I show any hatred towards Trump? The FACT is, I did not! I actually implicitly lauded him for having realised the importance of vaccinations in the sense of telling this to everyone. Whether or not 'masking of young children' is any good, is really a try to dislodge the important questions. I am pretty sure that young children should not be masked, at least not in a mandatory way. That's one of those measures that have more negative repercussions than positive. We don't do that here in my country. But - again - why make this a left vs. right issue?? Why not talk and discuss it as it is without the political ...hatred? Thumper's reply is expected. As I have aleady experienced, he feels than everyone not in his camp is actively against him. 'Emotional manipulations', my a$$!   The truth is that people like me aren't at all like that, but only interested in trying to set up some real discussion forum that would solve this truly stupid (and dangerous!) polarisation of US politics.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 21:05	The only bad thing now would be to get another troll from....you know who! Before we could rectify this question.
pawntificator 24-Dec-21, 21:06	I don't care if Trump promotes vaccination or not. Contrary to your illusions I do not agree with everything President Trump does. But as long as he doesn't force medical treatments then I'm ok with it.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 21:07	<The only bad thing now would be to get another troll from....you know who! Before we could rectify this question. > Wheeev! Quite accurate anticipation, wasn't it?
thumper 24-Dec-21, 21:26	Stål Both you and LS quickly made it political in not only this thread but many others as well. That alone tells me your primary interest is actually in political brinkmanship. Wheeev indeed.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 21:28	So, Softaire and Thumper continue their efforts against a scientifically established normal way of best fighting against the virus. However, the troll hesitates: <I don't care if Trump promotes vaccination or not. Contrary to your illusions I do not agree with everything President Trump does.> and since Trump now 'swiched camps' (as he is well known of doing in a hearbeat if it is good for him), Softaire and Thumper donät know where they stand, except continuing their partisan mantra. Trolls, however, always land on their four feet.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 21:30	Thumper <Both you and LS quickly made it political> Ohh, really. When did I make it political? YOU are the ine doing precisely that, as all these exchanges have shown time and time again! Don't you really have any other defense?
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 21:47	Softaire and Thumper The aggression evident in your posts is unnecessary. The first thing would be to be able to discuss issues without partisan bias and without the aggression that comes with it. You need to understand that I don't have that as I am not in the USA, and as I have no clear preference between US political extremes. Well, I know you don't believe that, but it is the simple truth.
thumper 24-Dec-21, 21:49	Stål From your OP: <How come you guys have becoem so quiet now on this issue when your idol, ex-president Trump...> When did you make it political??? Are you serious? How can you be so obtuse? It has to be deliberate. That's why I no longer take you seriously.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 21:55	Thumper Question: did you oppose the principle of vaccinations against covid? Answer: Yes. Question: Was ex-president Trump against vaccinations at one time? Answer: Yes Question: Has ex-president Trump now changed his (official) mind and endorses vaccinations Answer: Yes Question: What is Softaire's and Thumper's current position on this question? It was very negative before, and the question I have posed is whether it has now changed when Trump's opinion has changed. As simple as that. But, of course, we won't get any straight answer.....
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 22:04	Thumper <That's why I no longer take you seriously.> I see. But, in my experience you never did in the first place. Starting from the exchanges a long time ago about the technology of timing ancient events. I hope you remember, but do you also remember how you promised to return to this and never did? By contrast, I take you very seriously, and I always did. When so doing, I posed direct issues, but each time they were elegantly evaded by you. Not ony timing ancient events but Bigfoot and some other issues, too. You are the one akin to a soap in the bathtub - when you grip it, it escapes.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 22:23	Thumper Once more: <<How come you guys have becoem so quiet now on this issue when your idol, ex-president Trump...> When did you make it political??? Are you serious? How can you be so obtuse? It has to be deliberate. That's why I no longer take you seriously. > How could I be so wrong? You have very clearly expressed your objections against all reasonable measures against covid, precisely as ex-president Trump did in the past. Why deny this obvious fact? You are talking about better real knowledge! Your problem now is that Trump (as is part of his ways) finds it opportune to change is previously expressed mnd by 180 degrees. I fully understand that you guys have difficulties following that. But, please donät blame me or other reasonable people who are just watching this scenario.
thumper 24-Dec-21, 23:01	Stål When have you ever heard me support or promote Trump? Never. You know this but here you are with the political spin. Your lack of honesty in pursuit of your political agenda has squandered the credibility you once had with me. I understand you guys like to draw people into bickering and arguing. Have fun with that, I'll leave you to it.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 23:09	Deleted by stalhandske on 24-Dec-21, 23:11.
stalhandske 24-Dec-21, 23:11	What disturbs me is the aggression, which I find quite unnecessary. I know very well that you have in the past expressed dubies about Trump. That's not the issue. At the same time, you have expressed - and prresented - strong opposition against major measures against the covid, including the essential vaccines. This is in accordance with the earlier opinions of Trump, which is why I connected them. I don't want bickering or arguing; you tend to accuse me of that as an excuse to withdraw from discussions of real facts. You have done this before (as I mentioned), and you do it now. I have no aggressive intentions whatsoever - quite the contrary! I'f just like to discuss the ISSUES as they emerge.
softaire 25-Dec-21, 07:35	Stalh "Question: What is Softaire's and Thumper's current position on this question? It was very negative before, and the question I have posed is whether it has now changed when Trump's opinion has changed." YOU need to stop misrepresenting my position on things, telling us what I think and believe, and saying out loud what I will do. In this thread, you post that I am against vaccines, supported Trump when he was against vaccines, and now am a coward because I don't say anything when Trump says he supports vaccines. You really have a pocket full of nerve. You are wrong on all counts. I have NEVER been against vaccines. I have said that I am vaxxed. I am against vaccine mandates and vaccine passports. People in this country are free to decide what medicines, drugs, and substances that put into their own bodies, or do not put into their own bodies. If you are for government mandates, you are for a tyrannical government that does not respect or value personal freedoms. You probably would have done well in Nazi Germany. It is called protection of the minority against the tyranny of the majority. That is what the Constitution is all about... personal rights, freedoms, and protection against a tyrannical government. You seem NOT to have learned that. Also whether I agree or do not agree with Trump is none of your business and does not matter. Telling others (and me) what I think, what I believe, and what I will do is really NOT your place. Keep your nose out of my business. When I post an opinion, you may comment on it then.
stalhandske 25-Dec-21, 09:09	<When I post an opinion, you may comment on it then.> > I did, but I was mistaken in addressing Softaire and Thumper, when I was referring to Thumper and Nothing. I apologise for that. And now, as expected, Thumper withdraws any support for Trump. Of course, it was never there in the first place, only the support of Trump's original opinions of 'the China virus'. Sorry that I cannot always keep these things apart.
lord_shiva 25-Dec-21, 10:26	Softaire I wondered why Stalhandske included you in that comment. You're nothing like Nothing. I believe him that it was an honest mistake. As for mandates, we have had those for school children forever, saving countless lives. Some people just cannot be cajoled into dong what is right absent a mandate, even when they know what is right. That applies to the ten percent of the military who jabbed up when their pay depended on it. We are happy to dismiss the tiny handful who on principle are unfit for military service. I am surprised Washington lacks mandates for first responders. Crazy accident victims must have their lives risked by rescuers unwilling to take appropriate precaution.
softaire 25-Dec-21, 14:29	In general, we have allowed mandatory vaccinations for children in elementary school because they stopped several bad diseases. They saved many lives and stamped out of existence those diseases. Adults got vaccinated and that stopped the spread of the disease. It pretty much assured the person that they would not get the disease. But, it seems to me that those vaccines took some time to be developed. I've heard that it took years of research and testing in order to adequately ensure they were safe and effective. These Covid vaccines were developed in record time. We don't know what corners were cut. We don't have any long term studies. We don't know what type of assurances the pharmaceutical companies were given that will protect them from lawsuits when there are unintended consequences. We also do not know how many doses were promised to be purchased by the government. We do not know if the same assurances were made for protection on the pills coming out or the amount of pills that have been purchased. We have heard many stories of breakthrough infections. We continue to be told to socially distance, wear masks, and take booster shots. That implies that the vaccines don't work. Our government officials continue to wear masks which also infers that vaccines don't work. This all implies that the vaccines and mandates don't work. Those things plus the unknown long term ramifications all give very good reason why somebody should/could wait on getting vaxxed, getting boostered, or taking pills. I personally do it, but it is my choice. Other people have the right to decline it/them. I do not want to live in a country where the government can tell me I MUST take medicine, drugs, or chemicals that THEY approve.
thumper 25-Dec-21, 14:55	Softie I tend to agree with your POV for the most part. If the shots are all that then why the constant fear mongering? As for me, I've already had COVID (with no ill effects) so why do they continue to attack me? They're no smarter or wise than I. Many not even close. Many of the 'scientists', it seems, are little more than political prostitutes hocking their snake oil for government grants and funding. As Fauci sees himself, "I am science. If you criticize me you are criticizing science." Some would call this a god complex.
pawntificator 25-Dec-21, 15:03	And for whatever it's worth, Trump has always promoted the covid vaccine from the start. I don't understand how anyone could think that Trump has changed his mind. He pushed it through the bureaucracy in record time. I never agreed with him about this point. But I still think he is a better politician than anyone I've seen so far.
thumper 25-Dec-21, 15:28	Nothing From what I've seen it has always been about political posturing and virtue signaling. They have to have an enemy to fight, a foil, even if they have to manufacture one. Their 'coalition' quickly falls apart without someone to collectively hate on. Their entire message is based on negativity and hate, not positivity and hope. Trump is the perfect foil for them. He's brash, arrogant, self-centered, self-important, egotistical and narcissistic. Actually as I list those characteristics I'm reminded of the prog socialists attitudes. Come to think of it, wasn't Trump a life long Democrat and a darling of the Ds before he suddenly ran for POTUS as a Republican?
lord_shiva 25-Dec-21, 16:09	<<Those vaccines took some time to be developed. I've heard that it took years of research and testing in order to adequately ensure they were safe and effective.>> It used to take a metal smith a month to build a musket. In today's world a machine shop can stamp out hundreds of them in a single day. Why is it any surprise we get better at the things we do? It took years to work the bugs out of initial vaccines. We did not skip steps, we simply ran them simultaneously. Some things we already knew we could do. For example, we don't have to attenuate any virus since we are not working with a live virus. Instead, we are folding mRNA in much the same way we have learned to fold proteins. We produce what is essentially a molecular mimic of the virus, and it works the way all vaccines historically work. This does not eliminate the critical step of testing. If the vaccine is not effective then there is no reason to administer it. Also, in conservative headspace, if the vaccine is les than perfect it is utterly useless. Like my car was supposed to get 24 mpg but by driving like a speed demon, braking up and down hills, I managed only 22 mpg and so set the thing on fire. If it cannot work perfectly it should just be destroyed. If my seatbelt works then why do I need an airbag and collapsible steering column? My God.
pawntificator 25-Dec-21, 17:45	Let me know when you get your HIV vaccine, then.
pawntificator 25-Dec-21, 17:48	Or at least let me know when the vaccine comes out so I know when to start preparing for unemployment for not taking it due to your insane government over-reach supported by foaming leftists. As far as I'm concerned you people are all behaving like lunatics.
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