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chess4him 08-Dec-22, 13:43	Brittney Griner www.msn.com Is this fair and appropriate considering veteran Paul Whelan has been in their custody since 2018? Maybe just not negotiated from a position of strength? Hmmm....
redfoxrising 08-Dec-22, 13:53	No it is not!
dmaestro 08-Dec-22, 23:16	The difference is the Russians just wouldn’t discuss Whelan who was convicted of spying in a rigged trial. We are in effect in a war with Putin and we have limited leverage. Griner as a non-spy was easier for them to negotiate. Putin obviously wants Whelan for more leverage than Griner. Trades with dictators are never equitable. It’s seems their conviction rate is over 93%. That’s why visiting Russia like that is risky.
softaire 09-Dec-22, 06:10	This shows how weak the US government is. Putin wanted the Arms Dealer badly. We should have left Griner there until we got both back. This trade is about as bad as Obama's four (or five?) top generals for Bo Bergdahl.
dmaestro 09-Dec-22, 10:32	Softaire Your gullibility is astounding. Dictators like Putin don’t have to do anything because dissent doesn’t matter. They don’t care. Dictators use show trials to gain leverage and take hostages. Their terms are always extortion. That is why Americans should avoid such countries. Russia, NK, Iran, China… that is how they operate. They convicted Whelan of spying not just trumped up drug charges. That means they expect a huge trade off and probably reduced support for Ukraine. They have no incentive to release Whelan and refused to even negotiate. The best we could get was Griner which was an obvious hostage move. Why should she rot while Russia uses Whelan? What leverage dude? America lost that long ago. The rationale for the silly war on terror was used against us. Russia, China, Iran, NK are allied and stronger than ever and military experts fear we would by 2050 face defeat in WW3 given current trends. And Putin knows America is divided so he knows he can exploit that. You need to get over the MAGA fantasy we still have the leverage..Get real…for once! Of course you never will!
dmaestro 09-Dec-22, 11:02	Putin tried to simply take over Ukraine, Europe’s largest country, despite warnings from the West. He’s allied with and building Iran’s military power. And he knows conservatives are more concerned with defeating Biden than anything else so they will always blame Biden instead. This isn’t the situation in 1990 when we could get wide support for dealing with Saddam and the Cold War was over. So what leverage? He would be a fool to release a “spy” without getting a huge payoff. I don’t think Putin is that stupid—I think dictators know we are now the Disunited States of America and have our number. They are just waiting for us to fall apart. And so many don’t get it so that is likely. I know all of you are not interested in the big picture so carry on.
softaire 09-Dec-22, 11:06	No, I probably will never measure up to your idea of "real". We are too different. But, Putin was not willing to give up Whelan for the Merchant of Death. Then he should not have gotten him back. YOU (and Biden) are equating the coming death of many courageous Americans for one lone celebrity that checks all the woke boxes and disdains America. That is NOT an equal trade IMHO. It is weakness and woke ideology, not American strength.
dmaestro 09-Dec-22, 13:04	You don’t seem to understand how hostage taking works. www.cnn.com. Until Americans realize they are fair game we will have this problem. Russia wants a murdering spy for a “spy”. You conservatives complained Biden was doing nothing but then bitch they should stay there because the price was too high. You complain about neocons but make the same error the USA is to be feared. You thought Trump should win the peace prize for NK but he got played instead. News flash—dictators around the world realize we are close to civil war and enough won’t pay the price to defend freedom—you openly would have sold the largest country in Europe to Putin for cheaper gas. Dictators mock the USA as proof democracy doesn’t work. We are too different for sure. And you yourselves will bury America. Don’t blame me… We need to do more to make it clear which countries take hostages so we don’t have this problem. And free who we can until then.
dmaestro 09-Dec-22, 13:22	www.defenseone.com We are not stupid we realize you utterly despise us and believe nonsense. Discussions are a known waste and we need to just write you off. Wokeism is not the problem. Studies showed there was known widespread efforts by right wing extremists to recruit military. Which we know you as an extremist is exactly what you want. All we wanted was a diverse but unified military. So keep it up. I will be vindicated when America falls. And fools who think God will save America need to learn from the Holocaust. God helps those who help themselves. America as it is deserves to fail.
softaire 09-Dec-22, 15:27	Do you ever feel like just sitting down and relaxing? Do you ever simply take a hot jacuzzi bath and let the hate out? I think you'd find it so soothing to simply exhale your anger and sleep a deep sleep. You pretend that you are able to do it, but it doesn't seem so. Let you mind just float off to some nice scene and heal yourself.
dmaestro 09-Dec-22, 19:39	Jeff was right. You all are a complete waste of time—different, ignorant, arrogant and dangerous—not who I would associate with. It’s not even healthy to engage you seriously. That personally you are nice folks is irrelevant. You out of touch dinosaurs for example think you know more than the Commandant of the Marine Corps? You don’t even know what CRT actually is. www.edweek.org. You endlessly make up crap, are duped by your leaders, and are immune to fact and reason. If I had my way we would live in different galaxies—I know now you are that different and dangerous. Putin must be laughing his ass off at how you aid his agenda. I know it’s fated this country will go through hell but it’s still painful to watch you destroy the country. More and more we will stop talking and just write you off as you see. One day I won’t even bother responding anymore.
softaire 09-Dec-22, 19:52	Speaking of destroying the country, what do you think of the Twitter drops? It doesn't look good for the Dems and social media, executive agencies or as we call it: "the Deep State Swamp".
thumper 09-Dec-22, 20:43	Softie Nothing to see there, move along.
dmaestro 09-Dec-22, 21:31	www.yahoo.com You dupes should pay more attention to whelan’s brother than your cult leader. And it’s revealing how thumper who claims to focus on precise definitions won’t do that with CRT.   As for Twitter of course now it will bash Democrats and push lies, bigotry and fake news with impunity just like Musk wants. That is what you mean by “free speech”. I never paid attention to Twitter but it should be abandoned by democrats. It is liberating to now have enough proof we are too different to be able to feel good about finally writing you all off as not worth any personal association and more extreme than I thought. As I said, not that you are particularly unfriendly but there is no further point in seeing commonality or friendship when we are just too different and dangerous. I regret not acting on the warnings earlier—but it’s all clear now. Best to just dismiss you all a priori.
thumper 09-Dec-22, 21:56	So you now "have enough proof"? Haven't you been claiming variations of that for years? So it took the public exposure of leftist censorship, twitter trolls and bots? Cockroaches scatter when the light is trurnd on.
dmaestro 10-Dec-22, 00:28	After years of aggression with minor consequences we see how much leverage we have with Putin amp.cnn.com. But you think we can win a game of hostages?  . As I said a key practical solution is in the future don’t go to Russia without diplomatic immunity. But since you all only want to blame Biden we know you will reject that.
dmaestro 10-Dec-22, 00:36	Thumper That we are naturally very different and divisions are growing was known long ago. The question I explored was if there was a realist plan to reverse the segregation and division, and would it work. We now know that it won’t.
chess4him 10-Dec-22, 10:23	Griner (Get-In-Liner?) timeline and summary IMO. worth the read! What say you? Facts First! Russia begins amassing troops and hardware to Ukraine border - March 2021 U.S. flees Afghanistan seen worldwide - August 2021 (began withdrawal and negotiations Feb 2020) Various sanctions, warnings, travel restrictions and heightened escalations from NATO and Western Allies' - March 2021 to February 2022 State Department advisory (updated!) - Jan. 23rd, 2022 (now to level 4): Do not travel to Russia due to ongoing tension along the border with Ukraine, the potential for harassment against U.S. citizens, the embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, COVID-19 and related entry restrictions, terrorism, harassment by Russian government security officials, and the arbitrary enforcement of local law. Griner travels to Russia to play in off-season league - February 17th,2022 Russia Invades Ukraine - February 24th 2022 Russia announced Griner detained for carrying hashish oil - March 7th, 2022 NPR article for interesting details since it is unclear actually when Griner was detained: health.wusf.usf.edu Summary and opinion - A professional athlete travels to a country where the State Department has issued a serious concern. It might be said the "money" was too good to pass up (see the NPR article). Greed and/or Pride can be a DANGEROUS INHIBITION leading one to ignore warnings and risks. Could the same be said of Bo Bergdahl? Would you carry a Bible on a visit to China? What would you avoid taking on a visit to Indonesia? Would you do your homework if traveling abroad? How 'bout a bar drink in Cancun? Remember the tainted alcohol deaths? Sadly and seemingly IMO, when a person "takes-a-knee" (a position of protest - regardless of which side of an issue and in this specific case, against a country you represent but can apply to companies, families, organizations, whistleblowers, etc.), it can further exacerbate support (i.e., public opinion or policy practices here and even risk of death from other adamant countries) from that parental entity when you make a perceived innocent but calamitous mistake. Whether the repercussions are fair or not often makes the outcome "controversial" as in Griner's case. Furthermore, this controversial undertone described here now takes a detrimental turn in public sentiment and division. Factor in Paul Whelan, a veteran held in Russian captivity for 4 years (for "another" trumped-up-charge with as many people believing that hashish oil is also "trumped-up") and the U.S. held Merchant of Death. Now, the far-left and far-right are at odds again over fairness and we have no arbiter, only loud and often judgmental (with adjectives) voices. “Fairness is not an attitude. It’s a professional skill that must be developed and exercised.” — Brit Hume “Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn’t mean treating everyone alike.” — John Wooden “To expect life to treat you good is foolish as hoping a bull won't hit you because you are a vegetarian.” ― Roseanne Barr We have all made mistakes as well as ill-thought through decisions and should "Get-In-Liner". -Two Cents (If I had more time, I'd written less)
ace-of-aces 10-Dec-22, 11:33	BLM & Same sex marriage are Democrats' top priorities. youtu.be 1,936 views Dec 8, 2022 Cherelle Griner, wife of WNBA star Brittney Griner, called the past months "one of the darkest moments of my life" after Russia freed Griner in a high-stakes prisoner swap. The president said Griner "represents the best about America." ---------------------- My comment: Recently, the majority House Democrats with the support of GOPs introduce a same sex marriage bill which will become a law. Democrats want to prove that they have no discriminations against LGBTQ in addition to African American blacks. If you can really understand this statement, there will be no problem why Biden prefers Britney Griner to be released in lieu of a former white marine. Griner has the following advantages. Blacks were discriminated by southern racist whites and Democrats long time ago by Jim Crow policy. Democrats want to compensate and payback their wrong doings to blacks. Whites can wait. 1. She is a black. Black lives matter over that of whites. 2. She is a Lesbian. Democrats want a definite proof that they support and act exactly in real life to LGBTQ causes. 3. She is married and has a wife. Don't get confused with traditional husband and wife marriage. Both Griner and her wife are women. With these 3 goals in mind, Joe Biden invited her wife, Cherelle Griner to the White House and proudly announce the release of Britney Griner. Please check the above youtube video. You will see her wife standing happily behind Joe Biden who benefits a big public relation and photo opportunities to run for 2024 presidential election, IMHO.
dmaestro 10-Dec-22, 18:57	I agree 110 % with Carville www.mediaite.com I think it’s obvious now why you are all upset. If it’s a liberated Black Woman in prison unjustly the white guy should be released first www.yahoo.com. And Putin has no greater friend than many conservatives in the USA since Trump. I think the correlation between right wingers and racism is so strong it’s no accident. Sorry to spoil your right wing party bash with hard truths.
dmaestro 10-Dec-22, 19:18	It is obvious Americans should not travel to Russia as long as Putin is in power. We are in an undeclared war with Russia they planned for over a decade and they take hostages. However Trump and his followers fetish with Putin left Whelan hanging as Trump did nothing www.msnbc.com. Whelan’s brother made it clear about Trump and that Biden made the right move: www.axios.com So my take of the motives of many right wing critics agrees with Carville. We need a separate deal to get whelan out but it’s going to be a hard pill to swallow. Dictators never strike fsie bargains and Trump’s courting of Putin rather than treating him as the ruthless killer and enemy he is was a huge error. The right wing plan to bash Biden for political gain as well as the racist undertones only aids Putin but that’s the point sadly.
chess4him 11-Dec-22, 06:29	More news on Griner...by russian TV! twitter.com
chess4him 11-Dec-22, 06:32	Interesting info on Griner's release Whelan's brother praises Biden while disparaging Trump... www.foxnews.com
dmaestro 11-Dec-22, 12:49	We want them all back. But in a hostage situation it’s going to come at a high price. As I said it was easier to get Griner first. Whelan was taken in spring 2018. Giving Trump a pass for doing little to nothing while bashing Biden is pure hypocrisy. Theodore Roosevelt said it well: “speak softly and carry a big stick”. The USA has not done that well for a while—the opposite has become the norm.
dmaestro 11-Dec-22, 13:09	Putin Reset Clinton underestimated the weakness of democracy in Russia. Yeltsin saw Putin as harmless. Bush naively thought he saw Putin’s soul. Obama tried a reset. Trump cultivated Putin even unwisely giving the Russia Ambassador highly classified info. www.washingtonpost.com But Putin already in 1999 believed Russia should rule Europe, brutally suppressed Chechan Independence, and as a skilled KGB agent knew how to reveal little and play others. It’s been 30 years of American miscalculations while Russia sowed divisions here and built up a fan club. It’s time to realize what Putin always was and that his goal is to destroy America in revenge for the Cold War. That is the only “reset” needed not bashing Biden or thinking we can pacify Putin or that he respects America.
dmaestro 11-Dec-22, 16:00	www.yahoo.com It’s clear what Putin is up to—hostages—and Trump had no magic bullet and wasn’t interested in whelan.
ace-of-aces 12-Dec-22, 05:20	Britney Griner is anti-American youtube.com who hates America. Should Biden give her first preference and release her instead of a marine who loves and served for America? This is a good question.
chess4him 12-Dec-22, 08:41	low hanging fruit DM wrote, "It’s clear what Putin is up to—hostages—and Trump had no magic bullet and wasn’t interested in [W]helan." EVERY regime is interested in hostages. This is "Low hanging fruit" and a "straw-man" argument but ironically supports my earlier comments (Get-In-Liner) towards the reason why traveling abroad should ALWAYS include prudent measures. To think your actions are do not include consequences is why the extreme left AND the extreme right is imploding. Another "RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA!" blame game to distract from responsible domestic and foreign practices. Furthermore, the legacy media is desperately trying to re-define "exteme right" and change perceptions of extreme left views during this implosion. They include the dangerous MAGA groups and even "election deniers" as "far-right" while forgiving Democrat election deniers and those who are fighting to prevent the mutilation of children (including infanticide) as "haters and racists" and therefore just far-right! "Her body, her choice" is progressive and those who avoid a vaccine mandate should be fired. btw, Trump turned down a "trade" for Whelan over the Merchant of Death. "...bad deal" like Bo Bergdahl.
dmaestro 13-Dec-22, 21:10	Russia is just one example of course. Authoritarianism is on the rise. America’s blunders since supposedly liberal democracy would take over the world. The point is it should have been obvious Putin would take hostages but too many in the USA were not aware of that. en.m.wikipedia.org It took 30 years and 5 Presidents to get here. At this point we just want all the hostages back Going forward change is due. But for now bad deals are better than the alternative.

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