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From	Message
mo-oneandmore 28-Dec-20, 08:27	Zorro's thinking about NG Club seems close, and the enabler is the one who argues the neutrality there.
zorroloco 28-Dec-20, 08:33	Also Note that the fanatics are not welcome in any other clubs. The NG seems like a good place for them- the NG Home for the Perpetually Unpleasant.
zorroloco 28-Dec-20, 09:50	NG I thought it was a good idea, joined and supported it. But the hypocrisy of my posts getting censored for ‘tRump’ while mods were using more insulting epithets for people they disagreed with was strange and antithetical to the stated purpose of the club. That and the acceptance and facilitating of bizarre conspiracy theories was too much for me to tolerate.
ace-of-aces 28-Dec-20, 10:09	Refuse to investigate the crime and prosecute is the greatest injustice. We all believe that everybody is presumed innocent until and unless it is proven otherwise by the court of law. This statement is so far so good but, what if the law enforcement agencies do not investigate the supposed criminal activities and the judiciary system refuse to hear where will we have justice ? If there is no justice, there will be no peace and our nation will be in chaos. We all don't want that scenario. We our nation is in this situation right now. There are tons of evidence on election fraud. We cannot let the thief get away. At least, GOP law makers will ask some questions electors when they arrive Capitol Hill to confirm Joe Biden as POTUS.
zorroloco 28-Dec-20, 11:24	Ace “what if the law enforcement agencies do not investigate the supposed criminal activities and the judiciary system refuse to hear where will we have justice ?” What if they investigated and found no evidence but morons kept repeating the same stupid fabrications? Just imagine!
dmaestro 28-Dec-20, 12:35	The evidence shows no fraud; therefore the “crime” is only in Ace’s head.
zorroloco 28-Dec-20, 12:47	DM You only say that because you’re not wearing a tinfoil hat. Dominion! Vote Drop! Kraken! Kraken!!! KRAKEN DAMNIT!!
dmaestro 28-Dec-20, 13:03	Bob 0330 By “spirit” I meant that the framers did an amazing job for their time but that took hard compromises they were able to forge, and they didn’t think their work was perfect or finished for all time. They tried to address the flaws that ended prior democratic experiments and dealing practical limitations of the time on more democracy while uniting diverse ex-colonies. To say they would oppose more democracy today the way conservatives claim is dubious; they rather feared corrupt autocratic demagogues like Trump.
dmaestro 28-Dec-20, 13:28	>>Happy New Year DM. Don't forget to keep a face diaper on, and always wash your hands.<< Frank’s latest message on NG.
zorroloco 28-Dec-20, 13:46	Face diapers Nice. And those who wear them are just weak sissies, not real mean. Acting like women, I suppose. And hand washing after defecating is for pansies too.
bobspringett 28-Dec-20, 15:28	Mo 5:31 When the Goodreads home page comes up, type 'Tito Kithes Athano' into the "SEARCH BOOKS" box. It searches by author as well. If you do that you'll also get a photo of an incredibly handsome model I paid to pose for me. The site wouldn't accept my real photo because they were jealous of my ears. Scroll down to see the book covers, click on the book. This will bring up the specific book page. Just under the cover photo in the top left, you will see "Read Book". This starts the download, and you can save the file to your hard disc if you want.
lord_shiva 28-Dec-20, 19:33	Gomer Gohmert's Lawsuit Gomer "My Mask Gave Me Covid" Gohmert is suing Mike Pence to overturn the election by denying the duly appointed electors and instead going with Trump's slate. www.politico.com This normally would have a snowball's chance, but the judge hearing the case is a Trump Texas appointee. Still pretty unlikely it will go anywhere--there is hardly a bigger idiot in congress.
brigadecommander 28-Dec-20, 19:43	It never ends. Every time the road ahead is cleared, filthy organisms belch out of the ground and slime up the roadway. A lot like the 'Tremors' series.
bobspringett 28-Dec-20, 20:10	Gomer's Lawsuit Again, I am no legal expert. I have just looked at the suit and the text of the Twelfth Amendment. The suit asserts "Under the Twelfth Amendment, Defendant Pence alone has the exclusive authority and sole discretion to open and permit the counting of the electoral votes for a given state, and where there are competing slates of electors, or where there is objection to any single slate of electors, to determine which electors’ votes, or whether none, shall be counted." The Twelfth states... "The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted." COMMENT I see nothing in the Twelfth that grants the Vice-President any 'exclusive authority and sole discretion'. The text says that he "SHALL open ALL the certificates." Gomer apparently holds that the discretion resides in deciding which 'certificates' shall be opened. But the wording of the Constitution effectively defines the 'certificate' as that which the State Electors 'sign and certify'. This is the only 'certificate' in view in the whole Amendment. For Pence to pay regard to any other document (e.g., an 'alternative certificate' provided and signed by Trump's would-be Electors) would be unconstitutional, because it would not be from the Electors appointed by the State. If they are not Electors appointed by the State, then they are not Electors. They have no more authority than the check-out staff at the local supermarket. Trump's supporters might prefer 'alternative facts', but they have no power to appoint 'alternative Electors'. But this exercise does show how little regard they have for the Constitution that they always claim to be protecting. Anyway, even if the judge rolls over for him (which I doubt), this involves Pence acting as an Officer of the Union, so it is appealable to SCOTUS. I can't see it going any further, even if it gets that far.
dmaestro 28-Dec-20, 20:24	www.yahoo.com The Hail Mary using Pence to steal the election for Trump is not going to work. Republicans are more focused on blocking Biden and 2024. They are not ready for the civil war that stealing an election would bring.
lord_shiva 28-Dec-20, 21:23	Craziest Scheme Yet While this sounds idiotic in the extreme, Trump has even stupider plans in the works, including a planned riot, the declaration of martial law, and invocation of the insurrection act coupled with the revocation of posse comitatus.
bobspringett 28-Dec-20, 21:53	LS 21:23 <While this sounds idiotic in the extreme, Trump has even stupider plans in the works, including a planned riot, the declaration of martial law, and invocation of the insurrection act coupled with the revocation of posse comitatus.> Shiva-babes, much as I detest Trump as totally amoral, lazy and narcissistic, I believe he is also rat-cunning. He says and does outrageous things because he is an acute judge of exactly how much he can get away with. Now that he is in the Lame Duck month, I doubt that even he would expect that he could organise these tricks effectively:- 1. Planned riot. I have no doubt that he could find enough willing idiots to do this. But could he be confident that none will think "Shyt! In three weeks' time there will be a new President, and he will make sure this is investigated! All it takes is one of the other idiots to spill the beans, or to have made a silly mobile call, or whatever, and I'll be charged with Insurrection! Isn't that punishable by 20 years?" Mind you, Trump might try, but when all is revealed he will not be able to escape. So he won't try. 2. Martial Law? I can see the armed forces dragging their feet on any such order. The grunts will have no taste for enforcing it. Their officers will be aware of the consequences of ordering their men to do something that would be both unpopular and probably found to be illegal anyway by the time an inquiry is called. Nuremberg established that 'I was only following orders." is not an adequate defence for following illegal orders. 3. Insurrection Act? Posse Comitatus? Sure, if he wants Pence and his Cabinet invokes Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to find him 'incapable of performing the Office of President." I have no doubt that the grown-ups will find the idea Trump approaching his last week in power something to be avoided at all costs. So you might be right when you say Trump has these plans. I can't see him actually pressing the red button on any of them, now that he knows that everyone else knows his days are numbered and his power can be snuffed out in an hour.
bobspringett 28-Dec-20, 22:01	Ace 10:09 <There are tons of evidence on election fraud> Will somebody please teach that parrot to say something else? If "there are tons of evidence", then why has nobody bothered to show it to a court? All we get is a string of depositions base on hearsay or suspicions, but actual, court-grade evidence is no-where to be seen. Don't take my word for it; just read the court's decisions. Refusal to waste time on a wild goose chase is NOT refusal to investigate a credible lead.
stalhandske 28-Dec-20, 22:11	ACE <<There are tons of evidence on election fraud> > If so, it should be dead easy for you to show us at least a microgram of it. I personally challenge you to do just that in this Club. I emphasise the word EVIDENCE. Either you produce that microgram to support your claim of tons (=thousands of kilograms), or you admit that you are mistaken. Is this a fair deal?
lord_shiva 28-Dec-20, 22:13	Planned Riot Proud Boys already plan to show up armed and itching for trouble on January 6th. That is a given. All Trump needs s to pardon someone willing to shoot one of these guys to get something going. He can then declare martial law whether any grunts are eager to take up arms or not. He just needs a little violence to justify the declaration. It will be a useful pretext for what follows next. 3. What adults? Mitt Romney is pretty much alone on the Republicn side. Well--not entirely true. There are enough other Republicn senators opposed to overturning legal, legitimate elections that Gomer's case stands little chance.
lord_shiva 28-Dec-20, 22:20	Tons of Evidence There are three cases of fraud known in Pennsylvania. In all three instances being prosecuted, a ballot was fraudulently cast for Trump, not Biden. A million dollar reward was offered, which the Pennsylvania Lt. Governor requested be paid in Sheetz Gift Cards.
bobspringett 28-Dec-20, 22:23	DM 13:03 <By “spirit” I meant that the framers did an amazing job for their time but that took hard compromises they were able to forge, and they didn’t think their work was perfect or finished for all time. They tried to address the flaws that ended prior democratic experiments and dealing practical limitations of the time on more democracy while uniting diverse ex-colonies. To say they would oppose more democracy today the way conservatives claim is dubious; they rather feared corrupt autocratic demagogues like Trump.> I agree with all of that, DM. My post about conservatives capturing the 'spirit' of the founders was perhaps finicky, but I meant that today's conservatives are still thinking like 18th century gentlemen. What Hamilton and Madison and others wanted was a threefold purpose:- 1. That no one person should have the powers of an absolute Monarch, and 2. That the People should have a voice in determining how they are governed, and 3. That the popular voice should be filtered through the educated elite, or the whole show would degenerate. Modern conservatives still hold to these three principles, by-and-large. It is the Trumpist faction that has distorted genuine conservatism by concentrating on only the second point. They can only think about one thing at a time, it seems. Therefore they are quite happy for one man to have the power of an absolute Monarch, and for the skills of the elites to be thrown aside in favour of the lowest common denominator, so long as the 'elite' does what they demand. And if everything goes egg-shaped because of that, then it's obviously the fault of the elites, not the lowest common denominator. All authority, no responsibility is what populists demand. Yes, I'm an 'elitist'! I worked hard to gain what skills I have, and I respect others who have gained skills in their own fields. An 'unskilled laborer' will tell me what's the best way to move a pile of sand, and I will thank him and follow his advice. We all have skills in some areas but not others. So listen to the people who have the skills in the subject under discussion.
bobspringett 29-Dec-20, 20:41	In Sydney's newspaper today.... “It’s not surprising that a criminal like Trump pardons other criminals,” senior US District Judge Robert Pratt of the Southern District of Iowa told The Associated Press in a brief phone interview Monday. In a bit of humour, he said: “But apparently to get a pardon, one has to be either a Republican, a convicted child murderer or a turkey.” Pratt was referring to pardons Trump granted to his former campaign aides convicted during the special counsel's Russia inquiry, former GOP congressmen who committed crimes, and security contractors convicted of killing innocent civilians in Iraq. Trump also pardons turkeys — this year two from Iowa — annually before Thanksgiving. Pratt made the remarks when asked for comment on pardons granted to two former top aides for Ron Paul’s 2012 presidential campaign, who were convicted in a corruption scheme related to the Iowa caucuses. Otherwise, he warned, “political corruption will slowly corrode the foundations of our democracy until it collapses under its own weight.” Trump is the guy who was going to 'drain the swamp'. Instead, he imported his own alligators.
lord_shiva 29-Dec-20, 22:22	Drain the Swamp Instead he has chosen to swamp the drain.
stalhandske 29-Dec-20, 22:48	Trump's pardons are indeed quite remarkable. Especially concerning the "security contractors" convicted of killing innocent people in Iraq. I don't know what you think, but to me having "security contractors" carrying out the war for you is (should be at least) against International Law. These aren't military and it should be fine to kill them at sight!
dmaestro 29-Dec-20, 23:41	Trump is a swamp dweller who runs America like a CEO. He wants loyalists. What he drained was anyone who didn’t meet the loyalty test. He replaced them with swampers.
lord_shiva 30-Dec-20, 09:25	Thrill Killing The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) prohibits US troops from engaging in the wanton, wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians. The murder of civilians is only permitted (typically) via aerial bombardment campaigns where they may be regarded as collateral damage. Troops who shoot either civilians or execute prisoners are subject to court martial. Indeed, one American officer who slashed the throat of a young boy was pardoned for this crime by Trump. Trump has pardoned other soldiers for war crimes. This dude was angry and dragged a naked man out into the desert where he shot him. But since the victim was Iraqi--no harm, no foul. www.npr.org War atrocities are not only tolerated under Trump, but encouraged. During his 2016 campaign he promised to restore torture, and worse. He would authorize the murder of the family members of prisoners and suspected terrorists "in order to make them talk." His base wildly and enthusiastically cheered these promises of war crimes and atrocities, almost like Romans in the coliseum glorifying blood sport. To be fair, private contractors in Abu Ghraib executed three dozen prisoners without suffering any penalty. When US soldiers tortured victims, they were punished. Even tame things like urinating on stacks of naked prisoners or anal rape of them with broken broom handles--things Republicans dismissed as mild college hijinks. I don't know--I never pledged to a college fraternity, but I wonder how often pledges are stripped, anally raped, and urinated upon. Must be far more common in conservative fraternities than any of the liberal ones I heard tales about. They didn't do such things in "Animal House." The difference between Abu Ghraib and the Blackwater Massacre is the civilian status. Blackwater just gunned down people in the street, whereas Bush's private contractors executed folks who had been imprisoned as victims of vendetta by others ["yeah, THAT guy (who once insulted my sister) was a driver for Al Queda senior leadership... BOOM."]
dmaestro 30-Dec-20, 11:04	www.google.com Trump has no authority to pardon war criminals under international law.
dmaestro 30-Dec-20, 11:16	www.yahoo.com www.google.com American’s growing suspicion and conspiracy addiction is another big factor in why America is more divided than ever. Note that Trump rode the birther hoax all the way to the White House. I think it’s safe to say adversaries have realized targeted misinformation is very effective.
thumper 30-Dec-20, 11:24	Have you ever been in combat? I didn't think so. Just propaganda trash talk from the safety of your basement. Let's play a mental exercise; What do you think you would do if a bunch of guys started shooting at you and your men while hiding behind 'civilians'? Would you let your people be slaughtered or would you order/allow your men to return fire? For the sake of transparency, I know Erik Prince.
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