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zorroloco 31-Oct-21, 14:13	Riaan Yes. It’s pointless. You say his complaint function has been revoked? How do you know? I didn’t know that was even a thing. I guess they remember his prior behavior. That’s pretty hilarious.
riaannieman 31-Oct-21, 14:32	He admits to it on several occasions in that thread. The first time was 03-Oct-21, 15:14. A quick scan where he mentioned myself was 28-Oct-21, 04:57. I think there are two more in there somewhere, but it is almost midnight here and I have to be up early in the morning. It is our national elections tomorrow. I am attending a voting station from 04:30 until 12:00. Luckily the one where I vote anyway and only two minutes walk from home, even with my cripple knee.
zorroloco 31-Oct-21, 14:34	Riaan Good luck w the election. Both for a clean peaceful one and for positive results.
riaannieman 31-Oct-21, 14:39	It will be relatively clean and peaceful. As for positive results....... I think we need another generation to grow up, who doesn't have the historical, cultural and moral attachment to the ruling ANC. They will win, for sure, but the question is if their support is waning or not. At the last elections, if memory serves me correctly, they got less than 60%- I think it was 56%, and then all the opposition was extremely happy. Considering they won in 1994 with over 77%!
riaannieman 31-Oct-21, 14:56	Just for the record, and to make it clear for anybody who reads this thread. To put the post of brigadecommander in context: I know her well and I am sure she meant the post to mean to switch off the ventilator on the thread and club by coram by members of this club, not on his life. That entry should not be taken out of context and given new meaning to fit another agenda. It was specifically aimed at the thread and club of coram, not a threat of violence on his life. Which would be criminal in almost any country and would contravene the rules of GK. It was meant to indicate severance of contact, avoidance of comment, no further interaction. ................................. 💭 🤔 👀 Well, what do you know! Look at that!
bobspringett 31-Oct-21, 15:28	Riaan's braai <my cousin Elzabè Bezuidenhout was the first ever female winemaker in South Africa, and their family owns the vineyard called Vredenheim: vredenheim.co.za.> If I ever manage to get to South Africa, I'll make a point of visiting and showing her your post. I might even score a free bottle. Isn't that what 'Vredenheim' means? 'Home of the Freebie'? <Poor zorroloco, we'll have to teach him about a braai. On hardwood coals, not flames.> Yes, hardwood is the only way to go. That's why God put gum trees in Australia. Eucalypts like Red Gum are excellent hardwood for barbies; slow-burning and very hot. About Coram - AYE
hogfysshe 31-Oct-21, 18:06	same (aye). as we've all said in the past. I don't read it, or very much of it here. but I think it's potentially harmful, in that it can cause time to be poorly spent. even if it sometimes prompts a worthwhile discussion of an idea or concept, that is at the cost of other unpleasant or unfruitful exchanges that sometimes cause distress, ...distress that may build up and accumulate over time.
riaannieman 31-Oct-21, 22:26	I know this is off topic, but I need to clarify something. All the assasinations and murder took place from weeks ago. Various politicians were killed. Last week I counted three in two days. Since the beginning of September I have a rough count of about thirty, but I didn't specifically collate the numbers. It was just something I did peripherally in the back of my head as the elections approached. I estimate that roughly eighty have been killed since January. These are people from all parties. I believe they are all African, no Europeans. Most are in the ANC, and I think it has been ANC members killing their own ANC members to gain advantage. Some were across parties. One of my regular opponents from Canada thought I was joking or exaggerating when I mentioned this, but he checked and found it to be true. So far today has been quiet. Not many people are arriving and there is no que. The people the old age home where this voting station is, is supplying me with liters of instant coffee. I pretend to like it because I don't want to hurt their feelings, but in reality I haven't had instant since 1988, when I was in training. Life is too short for bad coffee and bad wine. My wife will be here soon to vote, and I messaged her to bring me some real coffee.
lord_shiva 31-Oct-21, 22:49	Aye About four years back Coram wrote the following, which I deleted (because it included the doxxing of another player): I'm cray cray and full of hate.  Gladys Kravitz is my life coach.  I had a 2100+ USCF rating at the age of 15.  I write and spell at a 3rd grade level but I pretend to like classical music so that makes me smart.  youtu.be  FULL SCREEN and LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  PS I have an emotionally-needy imaginary friend who lives in Finland. He likes to club seals. He lies a lot and doesn't like black people.  [Reference to Stalhandske] PPS I worked as a volunteer on Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. After undecided voters met or talked with me, 100 percent decided to vote for Donald Trump. I got a postcard from Hillary thanking me for my help. I got one from Donald Trump too.  PPPS I like to look at the stars through my telescope and pretend I have a soul.  PPPPS I'm very tolerant of people's points of view as long as they agree with me.  PPPPPS I'm a special snowflake. [LS] Can you say "projection?". Sure. I knew you could. Honest to God this really tells you everything you need to know. The leopard has not changed his spots.
bobspringett 31-Oct-21, 23:33	Shiva 22:49 I have also picked up quite a few times when our beloved friend has been in 'projection' mode. Anyone with any degree of introspection at all would have seen it in himself. I conclude that said friend is either:- 1. So absolutely confident that he is always right that he thinks introspection would be a waste of his time, or 2. It's so ugly that not even he can bear to look at it. My money is on the first option; I don't think he has sufficient discernment for the second.
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 00:47	Shiva Thanks for reminding us of past idiocies that I had already forgotten.
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 06:43	The view of evolution by normal Christians I found this brief article quite refreshing, stating the entirely natural way someone belonging to the Christian faith would envision evolution. This is the way of most Evangelic Lutheran churches and of the Catholic Church. biologos.org
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 06:53	Scientific American article Here is a very clearly written article in Scentific American showing how the arguments against evolution by the creationists is pure garbage. www.scientificamerican.com
riaannieman 01-Nov-21, 07:03	Well that certainly makes sense and is reasonable. But I have a question, slightly off topic but arising from that article. Is it possible to repair that broken gene (with something like CRISPR technology) to start making Vit C again?
riaannieman 01-Nov-21, 07:04	I was referred to the first post, not the second. Going to read that second article now.
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 07:10	Evidence for evolution stated very clearly Evidence from different independent fields of science, including evidence for intermediary species, i.e. so-called macro-evolution. www.youtube.com
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 07:17	Riaan <But I have a question, slightly off topic but arising from that article. Is it possible to repair that broken gene (with something like CRISPR technology) to start making Vit C again? > That is certainly possible, but in my understanding it would have to be done at the level of the pre-fertilised egg cell (ovum) in order to 'reach' all tissues. Such procedures would be forbidden by law in most (all?) countries. It could probably be done for a single organ using a carrier virus in the same basic fashion as some gene therapy for some diseases. It is much easier (and healthier) to eat fruits or take your C-vitamin pills. See-what-I-mean?
riaannieman 01-Nov-21, 07:49	I am just curious about the technology and the options. I once asked if it is possible to adapt the human body to make use of sunlight directly, with photosynthesis, and you gave a very good explanation about it. The reason why I am so interested in such manipulations, is that I truly believe we need to become a space faring species, and if we can eliminate all the deficiencies and make our bodies better before we are forced off planet, it will be easier to survive in space. I am thinking, for example, about the Andeans and Tibetans, who have unique adaptations that allows them to make use of oxygen more efficiently or to survive longer with less oxygen, in two different ways. I think they have also found such genetic adaptations in Ethiopian people, but I need to confirm that first. I have also read about a specific population somewhere in South America many years ago, that were almost immune to cancer, no matter how much they smoked or practiced other bad habits which would cause cancer in almost anybody else. I can't find the reference to that population now; I believe I may use the wrong key words for a quick search. If we can manipulate our gene structures successfully we can gain all sorts of advantages, including a solution for zero gravity which has, as one of its consequences, the result of too much blood in the head and neck. Another solution that I am eagerly anticipating and awaiting is the successful ability to bring to term a human pregnancy in space- a prerequisite for a multi generational odyssey to reach a new habitable planet. Together with that I also expect the ability to prolong a human life for two centuries or more. I know that most of this is wishful thinking at the moment, but as technology develops and perspectives (and need!) changes, I think we will be able and allowed to do it. My only reservation being that it is possible that these new humans are not of our species any more, but a new one. That would be a hugely accelerated evolutionary curve, and not natural but manipulated.
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 08:05	Riaan Interesting musings, and certaily not impossible in the long run. There indeed seems to be some groups of people where cancer is almost completely absent. In this respect, and regarding possible reasons for this, I would warmly recommend a book that I just finished: 'Ravenous. Otto Warburg, the Nazis, and the Search for the Cancer-Diet Connection' written by Sam Apple <That would be a hugely accelerated evolutionary curve, and not natural but manipulated. > The question is whether such 'manipulation' done by humans should not be counted as evolution, too?!
riaannieman 01-Nov-21, 08:18	It would still be evolution, in my opinion. Just artificial and tailored to our need to survive in space. Not natural and random. We would be, in tech-speak, specced: specificationed for survival in space. Another manipulation which I neglected to mention was to make us tiny. The smaller we are, the less energy, oxygen and space we need. The less mass we will have- and if there is a population of 1 000 individuals on a spaceship, saving 40 kilograms on each person amounts to a lot of weight shed for the journey.
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 08:35	Riaan My point is that evolution is not random! In my view, it is strongly directed depending on the conditions/requirements/surroundings. But you are right, the actual 'correction process' is one of trial and error. So, 'tailored to our need' is precisely what the evolution of man has undergone all the time! In 'your case' it would just include some conscious choice/decision. On the other hand, that has happened before when people have moved to other, new, surroundings with 'better' circumstances.
zorroloco 01-Nov-21, 08:50	Random??? Of course evolution isn’t random!! The eagles with better eyesight catch more squirrels and survive more frequerntly. They reproduce more.
zorroloco 01-Nov-21, 08:52	Embryos An embryo is an unborn (or unhatched) animal or human young in its earliest phases. Embryos of many different kinds of animals: mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc. look very similar and it is often difficult to tell them apart. Many traits of one type of animal appear in the embryo of another type of animal. For example, fish embryos and human embryos both have gill slits. In fish they develop into gills, but in humans they disappear before birth. Animals are similar and develop similarly, implying that they are related, have common ancestors and that they started out the same, gradually evolving different traits, but that the basic plan for a creature's beginning remains the same. I wonder, if creationism was true, why wouldn’t human embryos just look like tine humans?
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 08:56	Zorro That good point is made (with pictures) very beautifully (and simply) in the small video I posted earlier www.youtube.com
riaannieman 01-Nov-21, 09:01	My argument to that is difficult to voice- in mind it makes sense, though. Let me try. The gene that change (evolution) do so at random. It is not a determined process, it is not consciously managed. The change itself is random. I believe the gene could just well change with the result of worse eyesight. These individuals with poorer eyesight will be less likely to reach sexual maturity or find a sexual partner because they are not as well equipped to hunt. On the other side, which your argument voices, the result of better eyesight, is off course a desirable trait and the animal with this trait has a better chance of survival, ergo a better chance of procreating and producing healthy offspring with the same mutated gene. Now the gene starts to spread through the population- slowly at first, but faster as time goes by and the amount of individuals with improved eyesight in the population increase. This part of evolution is not random, it is a statistically sound mathematical concept. People with a better aptitude in statistics and math will be able to express this in a graph with a well formulated mathematical equation. I am not able to do that. I do understand the concept, though!
stalhandske 01-Nov-21, 09:45	Riaan's comment is accurate, but so is Zorro's. Riaan describes the process very well. Overall evolution is not random, despite the fact that the underlying mechanism is. Randomly generated mutations that lead to 'unsuitable' phenotypes will eventually die out whilst those generated in the same random process that are favourable for the individual will be carried on to subsequent generations.
brigadecommander 01-Nov-21, 10:30	Lets not forget The effects of Cosmic radiation on evolution and Mutations. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov A force to be reckoned with I would think. Would it increase randomness or lesson it? ;medium.com
zorroloco 01-Nov-21, 10:55	Stal Just watched that video. Very well done.
zorroloco 01-Nov-21, 16:19	Bonobos, chimps and humans This is old, but interesting www.science.org Bonobos Join Chimps as Closest Human Relatives Genome sequence reveals tantalizing clues to differences in behavior and intelligence between three species Chimpanzees now have to share the distinction of being our closest living relative in the animal kingdom. An international team of researchers has sequenced the genome of the bonobo for the first time, confirming that it shares the same percentage of its DNA with us as chimps do. The team also found some small but tantalizing differences in the genomes of the three species—differences that may explain how bonobos and chimpanzees don't look or act like us even though we share about 99% of our DNA. "We're so closely related genetically, yet our behavior is so different," says team member and computational biologist Janet Kelso of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany. "This will allow us to look for the genetic basis of what makes modern humans different from both bonobos and chimpanzees." Ever since researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives. But there are actually two species of apes that are this closely related to humans: bonobos (Pan paniscus) and the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). This has prompted researchers to speculate whether the ancestor of humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos looked and acted more like a bonobo, a chimpanzee, or something else—and how all three species have evolved differently since the ancestor of humans split with the common ancestor of bonobos and chimps between 4 million and 7 million years ago in Africa. The international sequencing effort led from Max Planck chose a bonobo named Ulindi from the Leipzig Zoo as its subject, partly because she was a female (the chimp genome was of a male). The analysis of Ulindi's complete genome, reported online today in Nature, reveals that bonobos and chimpanzees share 99.6% of their DNA. This confirms that these two species of African apes are still highly similar to each other genetically, even though their populations split apart in Africa about 1 million years ago, perhaps after the Congo River formed and divided an ancestral population into two groups. Today, bonobos are found in only the Democratic Republic of Congo and there is no evidence that they have interbred with chimpanzees in equatorial Africa since they diverged, perhaps because the Congo River acted as a barrier to prevent the groups from mixing. The researchers also found that bonobos share about 98.7% of their DNA with humans—about the same amount that chimps share with us. When the Max Planck scientists compared the bonobo genome directly with that of chimps and humans, however, they found that a small bit of our DNA, about 1.6%, is shared with only the bonobo, but not chimpanzees. And we share about the same amount of our DNA with only chimps, but not bonobos. These differences suggest that the ancestral population of apes that gave rise to humans, chimps, and bonobos was quite large and diverse genetically—numbering about 27,000 breeding individuals. Once the ancestors of humans split from the ancestor of bonobos and chimps more than 4 million years ago, the common ancestor of bonobos and chimps retained this diversity until their population completely split into two groups 1 million years ago. The groups that evolved into bonobos, chimps, and humans all retained slightly different subsets of this ancestral population's diverse gene pool—and those differences now offer clues today to the size and range of diversity in that ancestral group. While the function of the small differences in DNA in the three lineages today is not yet known, the Max Planck team sees clues that some may be involved in parts of the genome that regulate immune responses, tumor suppression genes, and perception of social cues. The common chimpanzee, for example, shows selection for a version of a gene that may be involved in fighting retroviruses, such as HIV—a genetic variant not found in humans or bonobos, which may explain why chimps get a milder strain of HIV (called simian immunodeficiency virus) than humans do. Another difference is that bonobos and humans, but not chimps, have a version of a protein found in urine that may have similar function in apes as it does in mice, which detect differences in scent to pick up social cues. "This paper is a significant benchmark achievement that lays the groundwork for other types of investigations into Homo-Pan differences," says molecular anthropologist Maryellen Ruvolo of Harvard University, who was not involved in the work. As researchers study the genome in more depth, they hope to find the genetic differences that make bonobos more playful than chimps, for example, or humans more cerebral. The bonobo genome also should put to rest arguments that humans are more closely related to chimps, says primatologist Frans de Waal of Emory University in Atlanta. "The story that the bonobo can be safely ignored or marginalized from debates about human origins is now off the table," says de Waal. This item has been updated to reflect that chimps and bonobos are two species of chimpanzees that are close enough to humans to share 99.6% of their DNA. The international sequencing effort was led by Max Planck composed of multiple teams including 454 Life Sciences in Branford, Connecticut. The researchers also found that the ancestors of humans split from the ancestor of bonobos and chimps more than 4 million years ago, not more than 5 million years ago as originally reported.
zorroloco 01-Nov-21, 17:18	Has anyone read Sapiens? It’s on my list.... this thread made me bump it. Sapiens A Brief History of Humankind Author: Harari, Yuval Noah Description: New York Times BestsellerA Summer Reading Pick for President Barack Obama, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg From a renowned historian comes a groundbreaking narrative of humanity's creation and evolution—a #1 international bestseller—that explores the ways in which biology and history have defined us and enhanced our understanding of what it means to be "human."One hundred thousand years ago, at least six different species of humans inhabited Earth. Yet today there is only one—homo sapiens. What happened to the others? And what may happen to us?Most books about the history of humanity pursue either a historical or a biological approach, but Dr. Yuval Noah Harari breaks the mold with this highly original book that begins about 70,000 years ago with the appearance of modern cognition. From examining the role evolving humans have played in the global ecosystem to charting the rise of empires, Sapiens integrates history and science to reconsider accepted narratives, connect past developments with contemporary concerns, and examine specific events within the context of larger ideas.Dr. Harari also compels us to look ahead, because over the last few decades humans have begun to bend laws of natural selection that have governed life for the past four billion years. We are acquiring the ability to design not only the world around us, but also ourselves. Where is this leading us, and what do we want to become?Featuring 27 photographs, 6 maps, and 25 illustrations/diagrams, this provocative and insightful work is sure to spark debate and is essential reading for aficionados of Jared Diamond, James Gleick, Matt Ridley, Robert Wright, and Sharon Moalem.
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