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 Rational gameknot team playMy impression is that very few people on teams care about where their team resides on the ladder. They want good games, and they want to win as many of those as they can. It is the egos of captains and co-captains that emphasize ladder standing. In so far as that impels those captains and co-captains to make good matches for their team members, that is a good thing. When it goes beyond that, it becomes compulsive and potentially destructive. I have witnessed individuals being pilloried by name on club forums because of various derelictions. That is inappropriate. Get a grip, captains and co-captains. Why would you ever put anyone one on "ignore?" For something they wrote to you in a gameknot PM or on a club forum? Chess is a game, and we can take it seriously as a game, but it is nothing more. Nobody else cares. I am orkneylad, aka Mike Manson. I paid $19.95 to start this thread, and I approve this message. |
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Why I started this thread. I have started a new club thread in order to have a forum for discussion about how to make play on gameknot better and more enjoyable for all concerned. I would like it to operate at a loftier level than most of the other threads I have perused. The pettiness that exhibits itself is almost beyond belief for the behavior of rational adults. I do not want any political, religious, social or whatever distractions. I do not want petty bickering about offenses, real or imagined. I want it to be a forum for discussion about how to make team play better for everyone. |
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Misuse of the ignore feature of gameknot |
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Purpose statement One of the very first things I want the thread to accomplish is to produce a document that can be sent to new members of any team to let them know what is expected from them and what can be done for them. I will write a first draft and present it for discussion to all the members of the club. The draft will then be modified according to their input. It is my impression that many, perhaps most, members of teams do not fully understand the mechanics of team play. I also think that having such a statement will increase the cohesiveness of teams and develop a sense of concerted team effort that will make things more fun for everyone. |
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My Message to New Team Members I'll start by with what you said in your most recent post. I just got a new member on my team today. This is what I send to all new members that come to my team: "Hello (insert name here), welcome to the team! If you have any questions, comments, or anything, let me know, I'm always available I'll start getting you team games as soon as I can. I always leave this as a heads up for everyone who joins, make sure you set your max team games settings to an amount you like best. If you leave it, the default amount is 10 team games. You can also set what time per move you would like to accept, but note that team games run between only 3-7 days. Both can be found in the 'Settings' section of Gameknot. That's all I have to say right now, other than the most important part, I hope you have a good time on the team Best regards, Joe Team Captain of Triton" It could probably be improved a bit. I've used this general format for years now. |
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A very good start, Joe |
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Draft of Team Letter The purpose of team play is to arrange for fair and competitive chess games between players from different teams. Some teams represent particular countries, others are international. Some have particular themes. The team captain and co-captains arrange matches in which two or more players from one team play against an equal number of players from another team. Some teams prefer two-player matches, others also play matches with more participants. Matches are made as fair as possible based on current Elo rating, 90-day-average Elo rating, 90-day-high Elo rating, and sometimes other factors, such as rating trends or past game results between two opponents. Some teams avoid making matches with players that have a high percentage of timeouts. The prime objective of team play should be to generate games that are fun to play. A player has two games in team match, one as white and one as black. There is also a competitive incentive, which is for a team to climb as high on the team ladder as possible. A team can win, lose, or draw in a team game, based on the cumulative result, with each win worth 1 point, each draw 1/2 point, and a loss 0. Observing several conventions can make team play better. 1) Avoid timing out. A timeout counts as a loss for your team and a disappointment to your opponent. You can set your time per move on the TEAMS tab at 3, 5 or 7 days per move, depending on your schedule. You can also set the maximum number of team games you want to play under that tab. If you anticipate not being able to make a move in the allotted time, set a postponement under the SETTINGS tab. This can be done for any reason: vacation, family matters, work-related demands, illness. If you unfortunately do time out, inform your captain immediately and provide a reason. Different degrees of mercy may be shown. 2) Treat your opponent with respect. There is a chat feature that allows you to exchange information and pleasantries. Some gameknot members chat more than others, but this feature is a great opportunity to get to know people form all over the world. Also, look at your opponents profile page, as it will often contain interesting information and photos. 3) Some players resign games when they feel they are at a substantial disadvantage, others continue playing until they are checkmated or the situation becomes absolutely hopeless. Also, some players use conditional moves and others do not. People will often post their attitude toward resigning or prolonging games and their attitude toward conditional moves on their gameknot pages. If you play to the better end, avoid stalling when you are losing. That is generally poor sportsmanship. If you are stalling for a good reason, communicate that reason to your opponent in a chat message or private message. 4) Communicate with your teammates. This is especially true for the members of your team with whom you are paired in a match. It is strictly against gameknot rules to help each other with moves, but you can provide encouragement or consolation, and sometimes decide whether to resign, settle for a draw, or push for a win based on the effect on the match result. 5) Follow your team’s progress on the ladder. You can access the team ladder under the TEMAS tab. There is a sense of pride when your team rises up the rungs, with the ultimate achievement becoming #1. There may also be a sense of urgency if your team is falling down the ladder. Your captain and co-captains are always aware of their team’s position on the ladder, which is an incentive for them to make good matches, but which can be destructive if it becomes an obsession. 6 )Many teams maintain various threads that can be viewed only by team members and can be accessed via the TEAMS tab. These threads, or forums, can have various types of content, and they are a good way for teams to maintain cohesiveness and a sense of community. You do not necessarily have to post in the forums. Just by reading them you will keep informed. 7) There are times when a player may want to move from one team to another. If this is done correctly, there should be no problem. All of the team games that you have been assigned will continue to count for the team that assigned them. It therefore hurts your old team if you time out or resign those games. You should finish them to the best of your ability. The following considerations will make the transition minimally disruptive and avoid hard feelings. a) Inform the captain of your current team in a private message that you intend to leave. b) Set your maximum number of team games to 0 so that you will not appear with a green light by your name as being available for pairing by that team. c) Play out the rest of your team games, then leave your team with an option under the TEAMS tab. d) Go to the page for the team you want to join and apply for membership. Note: If you have set your team game limit to 0, you will not be able to start games for a new team. If you want to do that, ask the captain of your old team not to pair you and then leave that team. You can set a limit for team games with your new team, but the maximum number you can play will be determined by the setting with your old team. An advantage of this way of doing things is that you can start playing games for you new team immediately and gradually shift your games from your old team to your new team. [Any comments for additions, deletions or changes should be made in a private message to orkneylad or can be posted on this club thread.] |
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Signing challenges and decline messages |
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Coordinate captains and co-captains |
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More information is better |
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Use Google Translate It is usually fairly easy to tell how comfortable people are with English by the way they write. Being able to send messages in a foreign language can build good feeling, and being able to understand messages they send in their native language can also be very helpful. Very few people will be insulted by your addressing them in the language with which they are most comfortable. Google translate is very easy to use. Just summon it up on Google and have at it. You can always confirm that what Google translate has come up is accurate but translating the translation back into English. I have wondered what would happen if a message originally written in English and then serially translated into, let's say, ten different languages would look like in English as the last recipient in the chain. Like the telephone game with Google translate. Would the message literally "get lost in translation" |
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Another point to be added to the letter. 2) When setting your team game limit and time per move, be realistic with respect to your personal schedule. Three or five days per move and between 10 and 20 team games is a good place to start. It is hard to keep up with more than 20 team games (10 matches). It helps your team to get as many match results as possible, because inactive teams fall on the ladder. Therefore, regardless of your maximum number of team games and your time-per-move setting, the more frequently you move the more rapidly matches will be concluded, which will help your team on the ladder. |
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As for signing challenges and decline messages, I would do that, but unfortunately the links do not work when sending and declining matches, it will only show up as id=, instead of what we normally see in messages and forum posts. It would be nice if Gameknot changed that. My only co-captain is dealing with issues at home, so I'm currently alone in starting matches. I'm hoping to find 2 or 3 though that can really help out, at least with team matches. A team my size really needs more than 1 starting matches. I certainly hope I can pass on my match making methods to whoever steps up. It definitely would be better to be on the same page than the opposite. More information is very good, especially if something seems to be off with a player that would turn away the opposing captain. In my case though, as I said already, I'm the only one starting matches for 115 active members. Due to having less time than I'd like for Gameknot, I can't usually look at all the stats. I want to, but I'd fall way behind on match making if I did. I will still try to provide more information when something is out of place, especially regarding if my player had recent timeouts, or if they had a high spike in rating...I see so many times my players have a 200 point gap between current and top 90 day ratings, one reason I always first look at the average 90 day ratings. I have used Google Translate in the past, I agree it is very good. The only problem I think about, is you may not know exactly what others speak. If you know, that makes it easy. If not, how can you find out? Perhaps it's a needless worry for me, but just because someone is from France for example, doesn't mean they speak French. I think it's great, but it definitely helps to know what language the recipient prefers, and that probably isn't always the easiest to figure out. As for team game limit and time per move, I think that is good, but yeah, I'm sure other teams will have their preferences. I have multiple players that only take 7 days, including my highest rated active player, but they've never timed out, and continue to raise their rating. It takes a while yes, but I'm happy with the effort. I definitely like what you said though about team game amounts, I have I think 9 players who go beyond the 20 game limit, and keeping up can be difficult since they're all fast. They've never complained though if I have them around 20. I guess that's a plus. I like all these ideas you have Mike, I definitely want to keep them in mind |
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I will send another message or two about team play and how it works. Then I ask what their preferences are and how to change settings. I try to encourage player to post in the team forum but from my experience less than 1/3 of the players will post. |
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My observations |
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Current club members founder: orkneylad member: mikemate member: rooklahoma member: joveyboy1 member: pawnpusher47 member: checkcharlie interested bystander: classica interested bystander: atticuspund |
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A list of the current members of a club can be found on the club’s home page. I placed a list of basic instructions on team play on my team’s home page that includes several of the points you’ve identified. |
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Revised draft of Team Letter Welcome to [Team Name]. We look forward to your active participation, and we hope that team play with us will be a rewarding and pleasant experience. Team play provides for fair and competitive chess games between players from different teams. Some teams represent particular countries, others are international. Some have particular themes. The team captain and co-captains arrange matches in which two or more players from one team play against an equal number of players from another team. Some teams prefer two-player matches, others play matches with more participants. Matches are made as fair as possible based on current Elo rating, 90-day-average Elo rating, 90-day-high Elo rating, and other factors, such as rating trends or past results between two opponents. The prime objective of team play is to generate fair matches. A player has two games in team match, one as white and one as black. The competitive incentive for a team is to climb as high on the ladder as possible. A team can win, lose, or draw in a match, based on the cumulative result, with each win worth 1 point, each draw 1/2 point, and a loss 0. Observing several conventions can improve team play. 1) Avoid timing out. A timeout counts as a loss for your team and a disappointment to your opponent. You can set your time per move on the TEAMS tab at 3, 5 or 7 days per move, depending on your schedule. You can also set the maximum number of team games you want to play under that tab. If you cannot make a move in the allotted time, set a postponement under the SETTINGS tab. This can be done for any reason: vacation, family matters, work-related demands, illness. If you unfortunately do time out, inform your captain immediately and provide a reason. Captains will typically be understanding and forgiving. 2) Be realistic when setting your team game limit and time per move. Three or five days per move and 10 to 20 team games is a good place to start. It is hard to keep up with more than 20 team games (10 matches). It helps your team to get as many match results as possible; inactive teams fall on the ladder. Regardless of your number of team games and your time per move, the more frequently you move the quicker matches will be concluded, which will help your team on the ladder. 3) Always treat your opponent with respect. There is a chat feature that allows you to exchange information and pleasantries. Some gameknot members chat more than others, but this feature is a great opportunity to get to know people from all over the world. You can edit your chat messages by clicking on the bubble next to them. Also, look at your opponent’s profile page, as it will often contain interesting information and photos. 4) Some players resign games when they they are at a substantial disadvantage, others keep playing until they are checkmated or the situation becomes hopeless. Also, some players use conditional moves and others do not. People will often post their attitude toward resigning or prolonging games and their attitude toward conditional moves on their gameknot pages. If you play to the bitter end, play fast and avoid stalling. 5) Communicate with your teammates. This is especially true for teammates with whom you are paired in a match. It is against gameknot rules to help each other with moves, but you can provide encouragement or consolation, and sometimes decide whether to resign, settle for a draw, or push for a win based on the effect of your games on the match result. 6) Follow your team’s progress on the ladder. You can access the team ladder under the TEAMS tab. There is a sense of pride when your team rises up the rungs, with the ultimate goal of becoming #1. There may also be a sense of urgency if your team is falling on the ladder. Your captain and co-captains track the team’s ladder position, which is an incentive for them to make good matches, but should not become an obsession. 7) Many teams maintain threads that can be viewed only by team members and accessed via the TEAMS tab. These threads can have various content. They allow teams to maintain cohesiveness and a sense of community. You do not necessarily have to post in the forums. Just by reading them, you will keep informed. 8) There are times when a player may want to move from one team to another. If done correctly, there should be no problem. The team games that you have been assigned will continue to count for the team that assigned them. It hurts your old team if you time out or resign those games. You should finish them as best you can. The following considerations make the transition minimally disruptive and avoid hard feelings. a) Inform your captain in a private message that you intend to leave your team. b) Set your maximum number of simultaneous team games to 0 so that a green light will not appear by your name indicating that you are available for pairing by that team. c) Play out the rest of your team games, then leave your team using an option under the TEAMS tab. d) Go to the page for the team you want to join and apply for membership. Note: If you have set your team game limit to 0, you will not be able to start games for a new team. If you want to do that, ask the captain of your old team not to pair you despite not having your team games set to 0. You will be able to play games for your new team, with the number being determined by the difference between your team game limit and how many games you have remaining with your old team. Once you have finished all your games with the old team, reset your team game limit, which will now apply only to your new team. An advantage of this way of doing things is that you can start playing games for you new team immediately and gradually shift your games from your old team to your new team. |
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The consequences of the ignore feature for team play The ignore feature becomes particularly damaging when the captain of a team puts the captain or co-captain of another team on ignore. As I know from personal experience, this makes it impossible for the person on ignore to issue a challenge to the team whose captain has put them on ignore. The vast majority of the members of both teams have no animus toward one another. Dozens, perhaps hundreds, of people are cut off from playing each other because of a spat, usually over some trivial matter, between two individuals. I find that ridiculous, and I think that gameknot should not foster that kind of immature behavior. It is like two countries that go to war because their rulers have had a disagreement about some minor point of protocol. |
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Recognize team milestones. The more a team operates like a family - hopefully without the petty squabbles - the more fun it will be for all concerned. |
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Three questions of chess etiquette. 1) When is it appropriate/in good taste to use conditional moves? 2) When is it appropriate to offer a draw, and when should one accept a draw offer? 3) When is it appropriate to resign a game? I would like to hear other folks opinions on these topics. |
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My thoughts on chess etiquette: 1) Conditional moves are totally legal on GK. However, some opponents can get really agitated when used. Just check on a player’s profile whether he has requested no conditional moves. If an opponent makes fairly frequent moves then I avoid using conditionals as s/he may be offended and then start slowing down their play. Also, using conditional moves in the opening can indicate to the opponent that I recognise his opening sequence, so he will change his play anyway. If you want to simply record a potential sequence of moves then use the notes facility. 2) Generally, the stronger rated player should offer the draw. The draw should be offered when the state of play is equal or near equal, and there is little chance of either player achieving an advantage. Either player who has the opponent in repetition moves of continuous check can offer a draw. One should accept an offer of a draw when there is no chance of winning whether the opponent could, or should, win. 3) One should resign a game when the game is definitely lost either because outplayed or position is doomed. |
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Response to checkcharlie 1) I think it is important to look at each new opponent's profile page at the beginning of a game. I agree that players who dislike conditional moves will often state that on their profile page. Others will state that they do use them, so that if their opponent does not like them that dislike should be communicated. I generally use conditional moves only for forced or very obvious moves, and sometimes for forced checkmates, although I wonder if that is rude because it is impersonal. I have encountered only one player, highly rated, who uses them in openings, which I found annoying. I also occasionally use them when a player is obviously slowing down a lost game: although it usually does not speed up their play, it can hardly slow it down. 2) The advice about letting the stronger player make the offer is very wise. I have been embarrassed several times early on by making a draw offer, having it declined, and then getting beaten. In the "worst" case scenario you get a draw through three-fold repetition. I think it is wise to make only one draw offer and let it rest if that is declined. Responding to a draw offer is a bit trickier. I often decline, saying let's play on for while, and if it looks hopeless to reach a decision after more moves, then I will make a draw offer. 3) When to resign is a function of the strength of one's opponent, I think. Against players rated at 1600 or lower, which most of my opponents except on the ladder are, it is usually good to keep playing even when at a disadvantage, because a blunder by the opponent is a reasonable possibility. I would guess that a smaller disadvantage among more highly rated players would be enough to trigger a resignation. There are a few players who will play to the bitter end no matter what, and they often state that on their profile page. As long as they keep moving regularly, that is not a problem. When they slow down, it can get very annoying, and that is when I resort to conditional moves. |
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Regarding your letter to new teammates I can appreciate you wanting to communicate with your new teammates, as well as your current ones. I take a different approach, which isn't necessarily right or wrong. It's just a different style. I prefer to put the bulk of my team training on our message board. One post is called "How To Avoid Timeouts, Set Team Games To 3, 5, or …" and another one is simply called "Timeouts". Much of the rest of the knowledge regarding team play, I teach over time and through experiences. It seems to me that sending a note of that length would be better placed as a Team message board post, as those posts don't get removed by Gameknot after a few months, plus teammates who have been around for a while can reference them if they forget things. Just my $0.02. ~Tim |
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Readers will read. Regarding message boards, how do you get your team members to consult them. My experience is that it is always the same few who post. Others may be reading, but I don't know. Also, non-premium members can read but cannot post. |
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That makes sense As for my message board, you are correct in that most teammates will not even read it. I treat them like the instructions that come with any new widget that you buy. I put them where they can be read, and if the teammate doesn't read it, that is on them, not me. I put forth my effort. It's not that I don't care if they read it or not, but I learned many years ago not to worry about things I can't control. I do my best, and then move on. On occasion, a non-premium member will ask me to post something to the team's message board on their behalf. I usually will oblige them. |
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I agree with you that.. Because I am a team captain, I sometimes need to put my personal feelings for another team or team captain aside for the benefit of my team. As a general rule, I will approach leadership from other teams privately rather than arguing on a forum. The only thing I like to air out in public goes on the clothesline. |
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Team Milestones |
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