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classica 09-Dec-21, 23:02	Ready to Meet the Neighbors? ... recently, scientists have calculated that there could be a minimum of 36 active, communicating intelligent civilizations in our Milky Way galaxy. edition.cnn.com www.sciencedaily.com This is a petition requesting contact with benevolent civilizations from other worlds, www.change.org So far there are 50k+ signatures and the goal is 144k+. More information is here: bit.ly There is also a world meditation planned for 12/21/21 during the Solstice, with details at the above link. Blessings to all and Happy Holidays!!! 🤶🎅👍🎁
mo-oneandmore 10-Dec-21, 05:22	Classica Yea, well, I know we're listening and that's a valiant effort, but why can't we just wait for those 18 or so possible communication capable civilizations to learn how to communicate with us? Merry Christmas everybody.
classica 10-Dec-21, 05:36	If someone is having a conversation in a coffee shop, and someone at a nearby table interjects advice without an invitation - that person is subtly interfering with the converstion and the free-will involved, especially if they take that advice. That third person can set the others on a timeline they may never wanted to be on. In the same way, if those from other worlds make contact with us directly and uninvited - the result would be to interfer with our free will to choose whether or not to invite them. The result of any contact, invited or uninvited will be dramatic - so this request is the first step in diplomacy.
mo-oneandmore 10-Dec-21, 13:49	Sure, Clasica, and the diplomacy will certainly need to work in both directions.
lord_shiva 11-Dec-21, 10:51	Interstellar Communication Stephan Hawking fretted that first ontact for us would not likely go well. Think of the merry band of conquistadors enslaving South Ameica, butchering and murdering thousands in their blood lust for gold, and killing millions with nasty Euopean diseases. How many centuries of technology separated these two land masses? When the aliens arrive they may well be ten thousand years ahead of us, at exponential development rates. If we can count on them to view us as cheerily as we viewed both those from our ancestral homeland as well as the new world "savages," we're in for heap big trouble. Especially in an Ayn Rand political climate, where if there is any economic benefit to destroy something, a moral obligation exists to destroy it.
apatzer 12-Dec-21, 12:42	Lord Shiva For one humans are an extremely primitive species, we still haven't learned it isn't good to dedicate in one's own nest. Secondly we can not assume they even remotely think like us. Any civilization that has the technology to allow interstellar travel wouldn't possibly want or need anything we have or could offer. Them visiting us would be like you and I taking a trip to the zoo. When we get to the silver back gorilla enclosure, I tap you on the shoulder and say ... "Go in and make first contact, try to reason with it.". Not going to happen. If some advanced civilization with that kind of capability wanted humans dead. We would be dying by the billion's and wouldn't even be able to figure out how it was happening. We would never even see them. Fortunately any civilization that has that capability, not only doesn't need or want anything we have. They also had the tools to prevent their own extinction. Meaning they have to also be very socially advanced. Greedy little baboons like us who won't let go of the salt to save ourselves. Those species die out. Their own hubris apathy and greed kills them off. Which will likely be our fate.
apatzer 12-Dec-21, 12:49	Also, we all know how solar flares disrupt communication. I would also imagine that magnet field's, gamma rays, charged particles etc would also degrade radio transmitions. Not to mention all of the numerous black holes. Can a radio wave be bent like light? If so no transmission from another solar system traveling for hundreds or thousands of years would ever make it to us intact. At most we could hope to find a small fragment. Like a degraded ancient scroll in a language completely alien to us. Given these suppositions they are likely using a method of communication that we have yet to dream of
classica 12-Dec-21, 19:06	It may be that tangible communication has already been made. One example is The Chilbolton 'Arecibo message' www.goldendolphin.com www.cropcircleresearch.com On the communication, we already are aware of quantum entanglement. This phenomena could be used to communicate across light years instantaneously. Communication done within our known electromagnetic spectrum could be local, within our solar system. www.nuforc.org Not all humans are baboon-like. It could that benevolent ones from other worlds could help us past this short-coming.
saguaro 12-Dec-21, 20:26	Lord Shiva "Any civilization that has the technology to allow interstellar travel wouldn't possibly want or need anything we have or could offer." Perhaps they need the Earth because their home planet is becoming uninhabitable.
saguaro 12-Dec-21, 20:32	apatzer "Can a radio wave be bent like light? If so no transmission from another solar system traveling for hundreds or thousands of years would ever make it to us intact." Yes, radio waves can be bent. However, our radio telescopes can now image objects many millions of light-years distant.
apatzer 12-Dec-21, 23:06	Saguaro and Classica Some very good points, thank you.
lord_shiva 13-Dec-21, 00:14	<<Can a radio wave be bent like light?>> Radio IS light. RMIVUXG Radio, Microwave, Infrared, Visible, Ultraviolet, X-ray, Gamma rays.
classica 13-Dec-21, 10:14	"Stephan Hawking fretted that first ontact for us would not likely go well. Think of the merry band of conquistadors enslaving South Ameica, butchering and murdering thousands in their blood lust for gold, and killing millions with nasty Euopean diseases. How many centuries of technology separated these two land masses? When the aliens arrive they may well be ten thousand years ahead of us, at exponential development rates. If we can count on them to view us as cheerily as we viewed both those from our ancestral homeland as well as the new world "savages," we're in for heap big trouble. Especially in an Ayn Rand political climate, where if there is any economic benefit to destroy something, a moral obligation exists to destroy it." Could it be that this already happened? There are some that believe Eisehower was approached by benevolent off-worlders and offered technology if we would end all wars. The offer was rejected, and we went ahead and obtained technology from not so benevolent factions. Given the state of the world today, it makes one wonder. The cost of militarizing the world could be our downfall. If there is a group of benevolent off-world civilizations, perhaps they could help get this sorted. They seem to be interested in preserving our free will.

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