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 Antswww.yahoo.com |
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www.npr.org Can you say “active imagination” and “artistic license?” |
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Phiomicetus anubis www.independent.co.uk Thanks for the find, Andrew! |
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From AI… <<Yes, the skull of Phiomicetus anubis has been reconstructed. The fossil, discovered in Egypt, included a partial skeleton with the cranium, right mandible, and fragments of the left mandible. These elements were used to reconstruct the skull, which was then further studied and named by paleontologists.>> |
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Reconstruction Even amateurs do really good jobs restoring old cars. Paleontology is only mildly trickier. Granted, there are a few gross mistakes, such as when Henry Osborn built Nebraska Man from a peccary tooth. Really sad, given Osborn had written about the similarities between pig and human teeth just a few years earlier. But it isn’t like Phiomicetus was rebuilt from a single badly damaged carburetor. We have plenty of the original animal to work with. Like an Aston Martin gets in a fender bender, and now we have no idea what kind of vehicle it ever was, or whether it was a car or airplane or submarine… |
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youtu.be Video is 11:07 youtu.be Video is 5:08 Here’s the page where they were posted… m.gameknot.com (Timestamps 07-May-23 8:20 and 07-May-23 09:26) Would be curious to hear evolutionists’ responses to the points raised in these videos. |
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Whale Evolution Answer |
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lord_shiva 18-May-25, 09:11 |
Deleted by lord_shiva on 18-May-25, 09:16.
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All At Once We know the early whales could not conduct deep dives, as they suffered from the bends. Evidence of this exists in their skeletons. Gemini offers: Evidence of decompression sickness, also known as "the bends," has been found in several fossilized whale bones, suggesting that even early whales experienced this condition. This finding challenges the idea that early whales were as proficient at deep diving as modern whales. Elaboration: Fossil Evidence: . Researchers have discovered bone lesions in fossilized whale skeletons that are consistent with the type of damage caused by decompression sickness in modern animals. Decompression Sickness: . This condition occurs when an animal surfaces too quickly from a deep dive, causing nitrogen bubbles to form in the blood and tissues. Implications for Diving Evolution: . The presence of decompression sickness in early whale fossils suggests that their diving abilities were not as advanced as those of modern whales, and that they may have been more prone to the risks associated with rapid ascents. We also find no baleen whales among the legged cetaceans. So that adaptation clearly evolved later. |
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Legged Cetaceans Why did God create transition fossils for whales? A veritable series of beautifully orchestrated fossils for paleontologists to bolster the already incredibly powerful theory of biological evolution. |
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The Most Crucial Change Mammals with internal testicles include: Monotremes: Platypus and echidna Xenarthrans: Armadillos, sloths, and anteaters Afrotherians: Elephants, manatees, golden moles, and tenrecs Cetaceans: Whales and dolphins These mammals retain their testicles inside the abdominal cavity, unlike most other mammals who have descended testicles located in a scrotum outside the body. Reasons for Internal Testicles: Temperature regulation: Internal testicles may help maintain optimal temperatures for sperm production, as they are closer to the body's core temperature. Protection from injury: The abdominal cavity provides a more protected environment for the testicles compared to the external scrotum. Evolutionary adaptations: Some of these mammals, such as elephants and manatees, live in hot climates where external testicles could overheat. Loss of genes for testicular descent: Some of these mammals may have lost the genes necessary for testicular descent during evolution. End Gemini Oracle. So we see that yes, this is a somewhat common adaptation cutting in disparate species by gene loss, not novel genetic origin. The genes for testes drop get deleted—a common mutation even in humans—and the loss becomes fixed due to the small advantage conferred. Gemini offers: It's possible for human testicles to not descend into the scrotum, a condition known as cryptorchidism or undescended testicles. This occurs when one or both testicles fail to move down into the scrotum before or after birth. It's a fairly common condition, affecting about 3-4% of newborn boys. |
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Cryptorchidism But with humans we presume this condition was NOT the result of their parents spending too much time swimming in the water. Instead, it is a random occurrence, sometimes attributed to gene loss. Gemini provides: Cryptorchidism, a condition where one or both testicles fail to descend into the scrotum, has a significant genetic component. While not solely determined by genetics, family history and certain gene mutations contribute to the risk. Here's a more detailed look: Familial Predisposition: Cryptorchidism tends to run in families, suggesting a genetic link. A family history of undescended testicles increases the likelihood of a boy developing the condition. Heritability: Studies suggest that a significant portion of the risk for cryptorchidism is heritable. For example, the risk is higher for brothers of boys with cryptorchidism than for sons of fathers with the condition. Genetic Mutations: Specific genes have been linked to cryptorchidism, including those involved in hormone production and signaling, and androgen receptor genes. |
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Sterility Gemini adds: Many men with undescended testicles (cryptorchidism) can still be fertile. However, the risk of fertility problems increases if both testicles are undescended or if the condition is left untreated, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH). And since I’ve failed to mention Groper, he is defunding the NIH since research is anathema to billionaire tax breaks and corporate subsidies, MAGA. |
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Miraculous Web Gemini: Many mammalian species, including humans, have a system where a network of arteries and veins, called the pampiniform plexus, helps regulate the temperature of the testicles. This plexus acts as a counter-current heat exchanger, cooling the arterial blood entering the testes and preventing them from overheating. This system is especially important for species with external testes, like humans, but it also plays a role in species with internal testes. So early mammals likely evolved this system, possibly in response to environmental changes such as climate becoming too hot or too cold. The whales simply made slight further adaptations to an already existing system. Hard to invoke any incredible miracle here. I apologize for failing to make this more pornographic for you. |
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Slot Machine To be fair, thalidomide impacted gene expression, it did not modify germline (inheritable) genes, only the genetic expression during development. But we know germline mutations can result from exposure to chemicals, radiation, or other mutagens such as the Zika virus. Every individual bears mutations. We cannot compare mesonychid genetics to modern cetaceans as DNA does not age well. But the insistence these changes must be as dramatic and coordinated as indicated in the video is absurd nonsense. It must be remembered that all terrestrial vertebrates came from aquatic vertebrates initially, and we know this because at one time marine vertebrates were the only vertebrates on Earth. Later amphibians evolved, very similar to sarcopterygian lungfish, and these were the only terrestrial vertebrates on Earth. These evolved into synapsids, diapsids, and later anapsids. And these three divisions remain the only terrestrial vertebrates. All life organizes into the nested hierarchy that screams common ancestry. |
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Waiting for Two Mutations pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov The upshot of the article (heavy on math) is that the mutations described are much more common than in the conclusion of the poorly researched paper cited in the video. The simplifying assumptions of the initial author (Nowak) are further undermined as population bottlenecks, common in reality, help fix beneficial mutations in a population. |
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The reproductive system of whales in its complexity and interdependence invalidates the idea that it evolved from random mutations and natural selection. Maybe watch that video again. And I’m not the one on here who’s interested in porn, though I appreciate your abstaining from writing porn on this website. Did you go cold turkey or find another outlet for your obsession with President Trump’s genitals and sex life? |
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Killer Whales, Video II Gemini: Pakicetus was named after the country where its fossils were first discovered: Pakistan. The name "Pakicetus" literally translates to "whale from Pakistan," reflecting its geological origin. Scientists discovered Pakicetus fossils in Pakistan, specifically in the Kuldana Formation. These fossils provided crucial evidence for understanding the early evolution of whales. While the ear bone was certainly a prominent factor, it is hardly the only one indicating the history of the specimens. Pakictus lived in the Tethys sea, home to subsequent marine mammals. Wiki: Thewissen et al. 2009 argued that "the orbits ... of these cetaceans were located close together on top of the skull, as is common in aquatic animals that live in water but look at emerged objects. Just like Indohyus, limb bones of pakicetids are osteosclerotic, also suggestive of aquatic habitat"[8] (since heavy bones provide ballast). "This peculiarity could indicate that Pakicetus could stand in water, almost totally immersed, without losing visual contact with the air." The Pakicetus skeleton reveals several details regarding the creature's unique senses and provides a newfound ancestral link between terrestrial and aquatic animals. As previously mentioned, the Pakicetus' upward-facing eye placement was a significant indication of its habitat. Even more so, however, was its auditory abilities. Like all other cetaceans, Pakicetus had a thickened skull bone known as the auditory bulla, which was specialized for underwater hearing. Cetaceans also all categorically exhibit a large mandibular foramen within the lower jaw, which holds a fat pack and extends towards the ear, both of which are also associated with underwater hearing. "Pakicetus is the only cetacean in which the mandibular foramen is small, as is the case in all terrestrial animals. It thus lacked the fat pad, and sounds reached its eardrum following the external auditory meatus as in terrestrial mammals. End quote. So not only the ear bone, but the eyes and lower jaw are also critical indicators of its evolutionary relationship. Why does this beautiful transition fossil exist at all? Noah never mentioned Pakicetus among the animals brought aboard the ark. As an even toed ungulate presumably Noah’s clan needed seven specimens, not simply a single breeding pair. Wiki: In 2001, fossils of ancient whales were found that featured an ankle bone, the astragalus, with a "double pulley" shape characteristic of artiodactyls. The redescription of the primitive, semi-aquatic small deer-like artiodactyl Indohyus, and the discovery of its cetacean-like inner ear, simultaneously put an end to the idea that whales were descended from mesonychids, while demonstrating that Pakicetus, and all other cetaceans, are artiodactyls. Pakicetus “was an artiodactyl, an even-toed ungulate. Ungulates are hoofed mammals, and Pakicetus had hooves, indicating it was an ungulate.” |
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Fully Repudiated There is no need to watch it again. I had the close caption turned on, so I could read the words. I utterly defeated the insistence by the authors internal testes would result in sterility, by showing other species with internal testes that are NOT sterile, such as elephants. My daughter rode an elephant. While the beast did not get aroused, I can assure you that elephants parents were NOT sterile, despite its father possessing internal testes. And then I documented human cryptorchidism that did not block fertility. I also documented the very “complex” circulatory system in many other mammals regulating testicle temperature. So this system could easily have already been in place in Pakicetus, though we lack fossil evidence to prove that. Gemini offers: Hippos have unique testicle location and anatomy. Unlike most mammals, hippos don't have a scrotum, and their testes are partially descended, residing in the inguinal canal. This means the testicles are not fully external and can be difficult to locate, making hippo castration a challenging veterinary procedure. The inguinal canal is a passage in the frontal abdominal wall where the testes are partially located. So hippos don’t have the fully internal resets of whales, but also lack the scrotum of humans. Theirs is an intermediate or transitory solution to the reproductive issue. Remember that bottlenecks—squeezing a population—permits more rapid fixation of beneficial (or benign) mutations. The subsequent expansion of a more genetically fit population provides greater space for the origin of beneficial mutations. The interplay between these forces drives rapid evolutionary change of the very type Wells erroneously insists must be impossible. We have the fossils. We score. We have the tree of life. We score again. We have the DNA. 40 love. Game, set, match. |
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Wells Zombie Werewolves Quote: A famous story tells how Cuvier students dressed up in a devil's costume and woke up Cuvier in the middle of the night, chanting "Cuvier, Cuvier, I have come to eat you." Reportedly, Cuvier opened his eyes, remarked "All creatures with horns and hooves are herbivores. You can't eat me," and went back to sleep. Cuvier extended the classification scheme of Linnaeus by grouping related classes into phyla. He extended this system to fossils, which he recognized as the organic remains of animals now extinct, including the ground sloth and pterodactyl. He is therefore known as the father of paleontology. End quote. Cuvier rejected evolution. Linnaeus was also a creationist, but enjoys the excuse he died a century before Darwin published. Curvier extended the classification scheme of Linnaeus but also failed to recognize its obvious evolutionary implication. |
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Victoria, "The reproductive system of whales in its complexity and interdependence invalidates the idea that it evolved from random mutations and natural selection." In short, the transitional steps in an evolutionary path** do not have to be perfect in order to be an improvement over previous steps, and complex systems, whether designed or evolved, can emerge through gradual improvement of the pieces and parts. The claim of "I don't see the path, it's too complicated!" does not invalidate the developmental path's existence. "We haven't figured a piece of a theory out yet!" is not a death knell to a theory. The current informational holes in individual examples of a genus or species evolutionary path seem to not be caused by invalidating data, but by a current lack of data to resolve the issue. Lack of confirming data in small areas does not nullify a scientific theory such as the Neo-Darwinian synthesis which is supported by a multitude of data. * Said response may be some time from now, due to personal issues. ** Or, for that matter, any designed path as well. |
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Misrepresentation Remember, the Discovery Institute is hardly above making statements significantly departing from truth and reality in defense of their religious faith. |
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Lord Shiva, I haven't looked at the video yet. I certainly do NOT swallow Discovery Institute statements wholesale. I was making a general response to the implied reasoning in the statement in Victoria's post, without reference to the video's specific argument. |
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Wells on Flukes Here's a more detailed explanation: Early Whales: . Early whales, like those in the Ambulocetidae family, still possessed hindlimbs and a functioning pelvis. These structures were used for both swimming and walking on land. Hindlimb and Pelvic Reduction: . As whales transitioned to a more aquatic lifestyle, their hindlimbs gradually reduced in size and eventually became vestigial structures. The pelvis also underwent changes, shifting its orientation and becoming more integrated into the vertebral column. Fluke Development: . The tail region of the whale, which was initially connected to the hindlimbs and pelvis, evolved into the horizontal tail fluke. This fluke provides a powerful, efficient propulsion for swimming. Vestigial Pelvic Bones: . Some whales still possess vestigial pelvic bones (often referred to as "hip bones") within their body cavity. These are remnants of their terrestrial past and do not function as a pelvis in the modern sense. Streamlined Body: . The overall body shape also became more streamlined, with the fluke acting as the primary propulsion structure. In essence, the whale fluke is a direct evolutionary result of the transformation and re-purposing of the hindlimbs and pelvis of their ungulate ancestors. End quote. It should scream evolution at you—the fact no modern whales existed back when Pakicetus and Ambulocetus swam the Tethys Sea. |
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Misrepresentation Vanessa 12:13 My bad. My post was being written in response to Vic’s post. Like strangers in the night, our posts crossed paths. I had not seen your post when I pressed submit. I failed to put Vic 11:59 in the title of “Misrepresentation” to clarify whom the response was intended for. I would have never assumed you were siding with the Discovery Institute, but would have waited for you to adopt a position pro or con before replying. |
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I also fully believe based on what you said about a decade ago and reaffirmed months ago – “The theory of evolution is without flaw, chink or blemish and has been that way for 150 years” – that you’re a fanatic on this issue and your mind is completely closed. And there’s no point in trying to have a productive discussion because of that. Anyone imo who can watch that video and come away with the belief that all of the changes whales would have had to undergo to transition from land animals happened by random mutations and natural selection is completely off the rails, imo. |
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Interruptions Then of course I also have to look up sources as I write, and so on. Bob is great at time stamping his replies, and I need to do a better job of following his excellent example to avoid confusion. Also please note—when I make any reference to young earth creationists I am NOT including Vic. I think Frank may be YEC, but Vic most emphatically is not. Vic accepts far more science than our lunar landing denying flat earth friend who lacks membership in this egalitarian forum. |
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Two Whale Videos You and L_S ignored them and now you’re trolling.>> I thought it was three videos. |
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Realistically cdn.shopify.com So we have a mimicry of an Owls eye, and Owl's color patterns, and Owl's plumage patterns, and in the exact area that Birds look to detect predators. along with several other distinct structures that Mimic exactly what an Owl looks like. I can see one happening by random chance. But all of them put together to almost perfectly mimic? I think that are other factors at play here other than happen stance, chance. Science has a long way to go, and in the immortal words of.... Max Tegmark " I'd rather have questions that I can't answer than answers I can't question"! |
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