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Scandalous behaviour
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bobspringett
18-Jul-24, 22:24

Scandalous behaviour
A couple of weeks ago I led my church's discussion. The subject was 'The Great Scandal'.

I listed a few of Jesus' parables, asking the readers to consider themselves in the crowd when these were first told. I touched on the Prodigal Son and the Workers who got a full day's pay for one hour of work, while those who worked all day got exactly the same.

The listeners would have been all in support of the 'good' son, and the 'all-day' workers, up until the conclusion. God is so generous that people are scandalised by it.

The same applies to the 'scandal' of the Messiah being beaten three-quarters dead, and then publicly humiliated for the remaining quarter. "Is this guy who can't save himself going to save me? Is that a show of God's approval? Or of God's power?"

And it's the same right through history as the Gospel has run up against societal norms. Usually, societal norms have won, because those with power in society like it that way. But over time there have been some incremental advances, such as abolition of torture, abolition of slavery, increases in individual rights, etc.

I challenged the hearers to think carefully about how even today we accept so much 'because that's how it is', even though it is contrary to the Gospel. Will our great-great-grandchildren be disgusted by how we treat refugees? Will our 'wealth buys health' paradigm for medical care be considered shameful? Will our 'justice' system that depends on punishment rather than rehabilitation be considered unutterably brutal as well as counter-productive?

We are all children of our own times, and we can't prevent that. But perhaps we would do well to recognise that, and not assume that our present-day values are either the best or inevitable.

lord_shiva
19-Jul-24, 08:49

Restoring Torture
Bush brought back torture. We even tortured a Canadian citizen. Then Bush appears to have had a change of heart, and back pedaled a little bit.

Trump ran on restoring torture, and doing far worse. This was a campaign promise he apparently failed to keep, as most of the terrorist attacks during his administration were rightwing offenses.
mo-oneandmore
19-Jul-24, 11:46

Bob
Very cool.

Would have loved to have "been there" -- either in Australia or the Middle East long, long ago.

How did your students handle "being there"?
bobspringett
19-Jul-24, 15:35

Mo 11:46
Rather well, actually. There were several examples from the floor of modern examples. Women not being entitled to the same pay as men for the same work even as recently as the 1970's, and still having effect today because of poorer access to top-level training early in their careers; the failure to take Domestic Violence seriously, even today. The list went on.

No generation can justify not being self-critical. Those who want to go back to some 'golden age' in the past are deluding themselves.
bobspringett
19-Jul-24, 15:38

Shiva 08:49
I recall wondering back then how America would react if Dick Cheney were captured by the Iranian Guard while visiting overseas and taken back to Iran. (Like Americans have been known to do with people like Noriega).

And then waterboarded during questioning; Cheney himself said that was a legitimate technique.

Just wondering...
lord_shiva
20-Jul-24, 00:19

Waterboarding
I watched a video of a reporter undergo that treatment. He was confident he could hold out for thirty seconds easy. The army guy administering the torture told him he couldn’t. He was given a bar to hold. If he dropped the bar they would stop.

He did not last three seconds. The reporter said it was the most terrifying thing he had ever experienced. But he KNEW he could stop it at any time, that he was unlikely to die as there were also medical professionals standing by just in case.

Quote:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times while being interrogated by the CIA.

Once, or even four or five times, maybe. Twenty? By then they are just getting their rocks off. Even once is truly inexcusable. Khalid became incontinent and suffered severe psychological trauma as a result of our evil.




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