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 How good is Z's speculation on Biden's immigration policy ?zorroloco 29-Nov-20, 11:54 [ report abuse ] Ace “1. What will Biden do to incomplete Trump's wall at the border ? Continue building, stop building or even dismantle it.” He’ll stop wasting tax $ of trump’s useless canity wall “2. Will he dismantle cruel Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) agency” Of course not. Policies will change. “3. Will he destroy the cages” Yes “and invite the migrants with red carpets ? “ No “4. Will he let the asylum seekers roam whatever they want to go in the USA.” No God man!! Use your brain!!!! |
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Looks spot on |
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ACE What Joe Biden has done in his first 150 days might be unprecedented in America's history. Let's just hope that our elected Republicans don't ruin it for us. |
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mo-one “4. Will he let the asylum seekers roam whatever they want to go in the USA.” No God man!! Use your brain!!!! |
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mo-one 13:00 night_rider179 17-May-21, 14:33 [ report abuse ] Re: LOL And who's watch was the largest cyber terror attack in our country's history under? Biden is a clown, should not be in office, he has Dementia and should be in a nursing home. Talk about Trump all you want, because that's just what it is...talk. In case you forget how much of a TOTAL DISASTER this administration is, I''ll remind you... WE'VE GONE FROM BEING ENERGY INDEPENDENT TO GAS LINES IN JUST 4 MONTHS!!! So... Russia is massing troops on the border with Ukraine. Ukraine is threatening to take Crimea back by force. China is threatening Taiwan and its neighbors while also threatening our ships and Navy. N Korea is testing missiles again and restarting their nuclear weapons program. Iran has been emboldened and making more than their normal threats. Our southern border is a humanitarian DISASTER caused directly by this administration, and the administration that promised transparency is hiding it and not letting the media have access. Ford Motor Co. is closing a plant and moving it to Mexico after just bringing it back from Mexico because of the current Administration’s plan for Increased taxes. Biden's admin is looking for private companies to spy on citizens. Price of steel up 145%, Lumber 126% Wheat up 25% Food index up 25% Cotton 35% Silver 38% Copper 50% Soybeans 71%, Oil 80% Pipeline jobs lost. Wall construction jobs lost. 1.9 trillion in stimulus that funds the administrations pet projects and only paid a fraction to the people. 29 trillion in debt with 4.8 trillion projected 2021 deficit before the 2 trillion dollar stimulus proposed today for the new green deal. 9+% unemployment with millions of job openings that can’t be filled because federal unemployment assistance makes it more advantageous for people to stay home than work. ALL IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS!!! The Imposter in Chief is a TOTAL disaster, TRUMP 2024!!! |
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Ace 14:59 I read that post by Mo. Nowhere do I see the words you report him to have said. You might have noticed by now that I react very poorly to the dishonest technique of the 'Straw Man Attack'. This is when one side puts forward an absurd position AS THOUGH this is his opponent's position, proceeds to demolish this absurdity, and then claims the opponent must be a total fool for having that position. The only problem is.... That's not the opponent's position! It sprang from the attacker's own fevered imagination! The only position he has demolished is one he put forward himself! However you then go on to say "Joe Biden's spending spree is unprecedented in America's history since world war.", which seems to be acceptably close to Mo's "What Joe Biden has done in his first 150 days might be unprecedented in America's history." So you actually AGREE with Mo, except that you use the pejorative term 'spending spree' to add your own colour. That is an interesting point, because Trump's last budget was the largest deficit ever run by the United States in peacetime as a percentage of GDP, and in dollar terms the largest even in war time. I didn't hear any complaints about that from Trump supporters at the time; so a deficit must be OK if Trump spends it on border walls and tax cuts to the hyper-wealthy, but not when Biden spends it on economic recovery. I'm not surprised. By-the-way, those numbers quoted from an anonymous source would do well to stay anonymous. The cost of steel has NOT risen by 145%. The cost of food has NOT risen by 25%. (Unless you might be talking about spot prices on niche markets, where variations like these happen all the time. For example, Australian Iron Ore spot prices can vary between $50 per tonne to $190 per tonne over a period of a couple of months) If you don't believe me, look up the stats on the official websites. If you don't trust the official websites but you do trust anonymous bloggers, then that says it all. I also love the way that money not spent on the Border Wall is described as 'jobs lost', but jobs created by the Biden recovery plan is 'pet projects' that 'only paid a fraction to the people'! So the Border Wall wasn't an administration pet project? and the Americans employed on Biden's recovery programme are either working for free or not 'people'? How language is abused when left in the care of a Trump supporter! |
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Mate |
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Mo I also object to my cute ears being filled with rubbish. |
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Bob Sure wish the pandemic had cost only 4,000 lives, huh Mate? Not that one vaccinated person wearing a mask will help that much in the full scope of things, ACE. So don't wear a mask if you don't want to, ACE, because it's your right to not wear a mask --- just like it's your RIGHT to pack iron into your local bank or food store, right ACE? |
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Bob But alas... |
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Price of Steel of something that has risen is if the price triples??? www.kcci.com |
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Ace And you talk like 150 days are for ever, ACE. Biden took office less then 5 month ago, ACE, and if you haven't noticed: The US of A is a huge country --- the richest by far in the World and Biden's still got at least 43 months to go (hopefully 91 months more). And what trump do for four years? Almost nothing other than golf and thievery! 2: Your wild-eyed rant to me: "And who's watch was the largest cyber terror attack in our country's history under? Biden is a clown, should not be in office, he has Dementia and should be in a nursing home. Talk about Trump all you want, because that's just what it is...talk. In case you forget how much of a TOTAL DISASTER this administration is, I''ll remind you.". 2a: The first part sounds like a Q Anon repeat and it's well known that it's near impossible to slap the truth to those types, but I'll try. The recent cyber attack was a Russian based criminal attack against a company that had poor security, not the government; and although it hit the news the problem was corrected within a week and it's now fully back on line after the company (not the US Government) paid a $5,000,000 ransom to the Cyber criminals. These same criminals have been attacking world businesses for years and have attacked thousands of companies, but the companies have been paying the ransoms, to the tune of many $ billions, and keeping their mouths shut. Russia has given these criminals a free pass, because fits their international agenda and the criminals don't attack Russian companies, but now that Biden is POTUS, we can be sure that he will be discussing the matter with Putin during their meeting this week. 2b: As for the rest of your comment, it's obvious that your still licking trump's ass, because trump started ALL of the Dementia lies, simply because Biden has a well controlled stuttering problem and he's two years older than trump. And to finalize your dementia argument: As a medical doctor you should know what dementia is and know that almost everybody has some hint of it --- even you, me and the fence post. Dementia has many stages, and Science has found ways to to detect it even if it's a slight whitening the top surfaces of ones brain (See modern MRI brain scans for an example.) Did I miss anything, ACE? Oh yea: TOTAL DISASTER? You're apparently talking about the trump years --- If Biden can get us through this, history will certainly find that trump was (by far) the worse president of all time. |
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Knight Rider 12:08 of something that has risen is if the price triples???> Your question is incomplete. I will assume you meant to insert the word 'rise' after the word 'percentage'. In that scenartio, the price rise would be two hundred percent. Now that I've been courteous and answered your question as fully as possible, let's discuss your post... Your cited article refers to one specific form of steel in one market (United States) at a time of pandemic. This has been further complicated by Trump's (NOT Biden's) policy to impose tariffs generally, and to offend the world's largest steel producer (China). Both of these policy decisions BY TRUMP would drive up prices. This is further complicated by using short-term data, which is notoriously volatile. It is interesting that Ace didn't mention that the 'comparison price' for that 145% increase was five years ago, the year before Trump became President. So what could more reasonably be seen as reflecting on Trump's presidency is made to look like a sudden increase since Biden was sworn in. Misleading and deceptive, but that's what we expect from Trumpists! But to analyse further... The article you cite goes on to say (if you bother to read past the headline)... "The good news, for steel buyers at least, is that analysts say all of the US steel production capacity that was idled during the pandemic has returned. That's why Tanners said she's very confident the shortage will soon end, causing steel prices to collapse. She said U.S. Steel in particular is vulnerable to a commodity downturn because it has the most amount of debt and the greatest need to spend to upgrade its plants." So I stand by my original comment, which was qualified by "(Unless you might be talking about spot prices on niche markets, where variations like these happen all the time. For example, Australian Iron Ore spot prices can vary between $50 per tonne to $190 per tonne over a period of a couple of months)". I should have also mentioned that it also depends on when the comparison price was taken, but Ace included in his post the timescale "ALL IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS!!!", not five years. Yet another example of dishonest and misleading claims. Here in the Land of the Metallic Marsupials there has been no substantial price increase. Next, would you like to explain how food prices have risen 25%? Is that for ALL foods, or a weighted basket, or just one obscure brand of breakfast cereal? Is that over five years? Or twenty years? Ace makes it seem like it has happened in the last three months. I also wonder if Ace will bother to tell us in six months time how US Steel production has increased enormously since Biden was elected. Somehow I don't expect that he will find the time to mention it. |
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Worst President? |
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Bob Also: America has seen numerous drops in the recent past that are both deeper and of longer duration than the pandemic steel production drop (see graph again) The fact is: America did NOT shut-down during the pandemic, even though recreation business such as restaurants and beer gardens was badly hurt, and school children took a year off unless they participated in on-line schooling; so the only thing many children actually lost was a year of socializing --- not that it wasn't a bit traumatic to their young minds because they couldn't understand it. And if y'all think The American steel production drop is a hot capitalism gone awry story, you might look up our aluminum production stats. After that: America is still ahead for the very highest quality steel in the world, I suppose. |
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Knight But that's big oil for you, huh? |
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Mo |
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Knight 16:54 and Mo 16:58 <Kinda funny how the worst President in history was responsible for making us energy independent and also had practically the lowest unemployment rate also among minorities as well, in history.> Instinctive reaction whenever a Trumpist is put through fact-check! Don't try to defend, just change the subject! If you want to talk about those issues, then start a thread on it. I was responding to two specific claims by Ace, neither of which involves energy independence or employment statistics. <And if it was Trump's policies that caused the steel prices to rise, why didn't they rise when he implemented the policies???> On subject, so I'll respond as courtesy demands... I didn't say "Trump's policies caused steel prices to rise". You put those words out, not me! All I did was analyse the article that YOU cited in your own case, and showed that it did NOT support the dishonest claim by Ace. I offered a couple of possible contributing factors, no more. Another possible cause is that Brazil's production of iron ore was cut back severely in 2019 because of a tailings dam collapse, and that pushed up the price of iron ore. But what is the point under debate is an assertion by Ace that the price of steel rose 145% in Biden's first 100 days. It is his thesis, and the burden of demonstrating it rests on Ace and those who support him. The only evidence offered so far does not support that thesis, but instead seems at first sight to apply to Trump's time in office. If you could provide a graph of world steel prices for the period 2016 to present, and also US prices for the same period, then THAT would be a better basis for discussion. It might even be helpful to see what influence, if any, might have been due to iron ore and metallurgical coal prices during that period. I would be interested, knowing how much the Australian economy is vulnerable to iron ore price variations. Mo <Beg to differ with you again mate but, American steel saw a massive drop during the 80"s (see "MAX" graph if it doesn't post that way), because America is the largest importer of steel (See China, etc), and has remained relatively the same since then.> I don't see the difference, Mo. My point was that prices might have been influenced by tariffs and the relationship with China, both of which are import-related considerations. I never said that Trump's policies increased domestic production costs. I think we both make the same point, but in different ways. |
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BOB <I didn't say "Trump's policies caused steel prices to rise".>...then you said out of the other side of your mouth. So which is it Bobby? Policy decisions BY TRUMP drive up prices or don't they? or did you miss speak??? |
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Knigh The more profit, the richer Wall Street fat cats get --- that's the capitalistic way, huh? And it wasn't the government that started buying most of America's consumer products from china And it wasn't the government that gave China manufacturing technology. And it wasn't the government that shipped Americas jobs over seas It's Big Business that did it.. And after the hundreds of Billions trade surplus America gives China every year, China still ends-up with a net trade deficit, even though it's paltry compared to USA standards. For almost ALL countries other than America, China works with a trade deficit. And it's all because Big Business chose marketing Foreign made products instead of marketing their own US made manufactured product. It was all about more profit for less production headache. |
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Knight It wasn't the Democrats that got it rolling. It was the Republican's favorite child, Ronald Reagan. |
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Mo |
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mo-oneandmore 02-Jun-21, 19:27 |
Deleted by mo-oneandmore on 02-Jun-21, 19:29.
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Bob 17:37 |
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Knight 18:15 Unlike some, I don't dog-whistle. If you want to read more into my words, then you should take responsibility for your own actions in doing so. The point is, you ascribed words to me that I didn't say. When your error was pointed out to you, instead of apologising and correcting the record, you doubled down. To put it bluntly, you lied and now you are trying to defend the lie. <So which is it Bobby? Policy decisions BY TRUMP drive up prices or don't they? or did you miss speak???> It is exactly as I said before. Policy decisions by Trump, such as imposing tariffs and poisoning relations with the world's largest producer of a material that America needs to import to satisfy demand, have effects. "Both of these policy decisions BY TRUMP would drive up prices." How great that effect would be is difficult to say, because there are many other factors in the mix as well. I didn't say how great that effect would be, not even having a guess at it, but Economics 1.01 will tell you that SOME upward pressure would result. In fact, that is precisely why tariffs are imposed; to make imports more expensive and therefore less competitive with domestic production! Are YOU trying to tell me that tariffs on imports DON'T increase prices? I repeat what I said earlier, and which you seem to be determined to ignore. This is about an assertion by Ace that steel prices rose by 145% in Biden's first 100 days. Why are you changing the question under examination? Is it because you know Ace's statement is total rubbish, so you are trying to distract attention from it? |
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Knight 19:03 It's nice to know that you don't just misreport what I say. You also imagine your own words for Mo and imply those words reflect his position, too! I don't ever recall Mo claiming that he knew everything. Why do you misrepresent him? The truth is that none of us knows everything. That is why we like to see evidence to support assertions, so we can assess whether or not to believe them. The only people who seem to 'know everything' are those who make unfounded assertions and then ridicule (again, without evidence) anyone who disagrees. I'm addressing one such person at the moment. If you're going to disagree with what someone posts, then disagree with WHAT THAT PERSON POSTS! Anything else is simply dishonest. And if asked to provide reasons for what you post, then provide those reasons. Even if not solid evidence, at least a chain of reasoning that tends to support. Don't just come back with insults or slide out by changing the subject. If you can't handle honest and fact-based discussion, then go join Neutral Ground. |
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Bob |
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Knight 22:54 Once again, you impute my words to one question when I was answering another. I said if something triples in price, that is a two hundred percent increase. That had no connection whatsoever to the entirely separate question "How much did the price of steel increase?" If you see any connection, please make it explicit. To do that, you will need to show the price of steel trebled in Biden's first 100 days. Where is your evidence? Put some up, and I'll be prepared to examine it. I am growing weary of your evasions, misrepresentations and dishonesty. Please state your case clearly and show some evidential or rational support for it. So far support for your assertions is spectacularly absent. Meanwhile, you seem to have no shame about ignoring the questions put to you. For example, you challenged me with "Do policy decisions BY TRUMP drive up prices or don't they?", I answered explaining how they do, and you ignored an answer that had you cold. Similarly, you claim Trump made the US energy-independent. When Mo explained that the US had always been an EXPORTER of energy, you sneered at him for not understanding the profit motive! Take away the sneer and all that is left is the fact that you were caught out in another misrepresentation. In true Trump fashion, to tell one mistruth, and when challenged on it you don't explain, don't defend, don't answer. You just bury it under a few more mistruths. At least you have enough wit to be a moving target! In short, you have no credibility at all. |
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