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From	Message
thearrtofnoise 03-Jan-17, 12:38	Deleted by thearrtofnoise on 03-Jan-17, 12:39.
thearrtofnoise 03-Jan-17, 12:39	Wait www.youtube.com Communist Party USA is right down the street from the Daleys in Chicago, William Ayers from the Weather Underground, and Reverend Wright in the "liberation Gospel" cult that the Obamas attended for 20 years. Pretty sure George Soros and Valerie Jarrett are working for ex-KGB Agents like Putin. Pretty sure you have no early idea what you're talking about.
dmaestro 03-Jan-17, 12:46	Russia did a good job playing you right wing dupes art. It's going to be fun watching what Putin comes up with next to con you.
lord_shiva 03-Jan-17, 13:04	Whoa! "But Barry started wars in Libya and Syria. How did that go?" The civil wars in Syria and Libya were not started by Obama. Nice effort at rewriting history, though. We ended the civil war in Libya, though continued strife abides unfortunately. Putin loves Assad almost as much as he loves Groper, so we weren't able to do much about that. But Obama showed us how to conduct a proper war in Libya. ZERO (count them--zero) casualties of US and NATO forces. Cost? Just over $1 billion. Duration--approximately nine months to cessation of hostilities. Contrast this with Bush's unprovoked action in Iraq, running well over one *TRILLION* USD, dragging on for years and years with the loss of thousands of coalition forces. Hell, I think Obama ought to be called in to oversee any future US conflict, given his amazing track record.
dmaestro 03-Jan-17, 13:47	Agreed. It's interesting how these Right Wing extremists try to divert attention from the real war criminal Cheney who puppeted Bush and created the mess. One of the more evil people in modern times responsible for millions of deaths. He's going to hell when he dies of a cold, calculating merciless heart. The demons are waiting.
saintinsanity 03-Jan-17, 15:47	Good post, I agree
lord_shiva 03-Jan-17, 16:02	Cheney Millions I think he pretty much topped out in the high six figures, not quite breaching a million. The Lancet Study laid only 600,000 Iraqi souls at Cheney's feet. And while Bush was a poppet, he was such a willing one I believe he richly earns every bit as much credit.
thearrtofnoise 07-Jan-17, 07:01	Obama and Hillary are war criminals Of course nothing will happen to them because the praetorian guard media corporations that control them will never throw their puppets under the wheels. She wants to be a Communist New York City Mayor, and he wants to be Lord of the United Nations. JAIL THEM! And their traitorous spouses, too.
thearrtofnoise 07-Jan-17, 07:03	Right wing extremist? Yeah, right. Anyone who owns a gun is a "right wing extremist" - or anyone who attends a Christian Church on Sundays. I forgot. Thanks for reminding me that I am one of Obama's "bitter clingers" - or call me Hillary's Deplorable. Ha Ha - how did that work for you in November?
stalhandske 07-Jan-17, 07:08	I should not address Noise at all, but I am very interested in understanding how he arrived at the conclusion that President Obama is a war criminal.
thearrtofnoise 07-Jan-17, 07:09	If you challenge me you will lose. Because the facts are all on my side.
stalhandske 07-Jan-17, 07:19	So far you have not posted a single fact that would support your claim. I am ready!
thearrtofnoise 07-Jan-17, 07:28	Did Syria attack us? NO. Did Libya attack us? NO. You can't refute that, Brain Surgeon!
stalhandske 07-Jan-17, 08:29	Did Afghanistan attack you? No Did Iraq attack you? No Did Yugoslavia attack you? No and....I am not a brain surgeon. I thought you were in the army. I also thought that the sitting President of the USA is the highest commander of the Army. Perhaps you have already reported your opinion about President Obama directly to the White House? If you have not, I'd be happy to help.
chaz- 07-Jan-17, 09:20	Stalh... ...it is sometimes quite challenging for some folks to apply facts objectively. I applaud your perpetual attempt at inclusion of all who post and your adept presentation of balancing facts on all issues at hand... I probably would not have the patience you do. Thanks.
itchynscratchy 07-Jan-17, 09:46	<< Did Syria attack us? NO. Did Libya attack us? NO.>> If that's your definition of war criminal I'm struggling to think how far back you'd have to go to find a US president you couldn't declare as such.
saintinsanity 07-Jan-17, 09:53	Did the south attack us? I think every president probably is a war criminal. Except JFK.
chaz- 07-Jan-17, 09:58	pawny... ...how would you hold those responsible, accountable? Or, are your comments merely idealistic laments?
saintinsanity 07-Jan-17, 10:16	I wouldn't try to hold anyone responsible. I sometimes enjoy making comments about politics and whatnot, but it's quite obvious that nothing we say matters. It doesn't make any difference.
ace-of-aces 07-Jan-17, 11:37	Let me discuss : Did Afghanistan attack you? No Did Iraq attack you? No Did Yugoslavia attack you? No --------------------------------------------- Discussion is cheap and can find the solution as long as we can discuss in a civilized manner and without name calling. Although we can discuss and debate endlessly, there are many issues that have no one unifying consensus agreement, we have to live peacefully with disagreement. Otherwise, we can become jihadists. Like saint, at times I don't know what to believe it either way. There are grey areas and so I put it in this forum and try to discuss from both sides. I believe our club founder zorro is doing the same. For example, we discussed many times about gun control and abortion issues. On both sides of pros and cons, there are still many people who will support their claims. I am a pragmatist, and if one of them works, I will support that one. So let us start with. Did Afghanistan attack US? I will say yes. At that time, mastermind of the 911 attack Bin Laden was expelled from ME because of his radical extremist Islamist views and resided in Afghanistan which were now controlled by Taliban. They followed Bin Laden extremists views and used as a springboard to attack US twin towers on 911. Talibans were conspirators and collaborators of the heinous crime. Bush had no choice but to attack and get rid of Taliban in Afghanistan. Bin Laden escaped.
stalhandske 07-Jan-17, 20:43	ace Perhaps you missed the cynicism of my post? I was just "repeating" Arrt's completely crazy "argument" for accusing President Obama to be a war criminal, albeit with other countries.
thearrtofnoise 08-Jan-17, 18:20	LoL Report me, Keyboard Warrior We'll see how far you get. Clinton and Obama are hawks and should be tried for war crimes. They never went through Congress, Einstein. Bush did, and got authorization through Congress. So, you lose.
ace-of-aces 08-Jan-17, 20:10	Stal Sorry. I missed your points. US made mistakes by intervening. Time has changed. We need new geopolitical strategy. Putin is smart. He did not send Russian troops to ME. He just did the bombings. Obama is right. US should not engage in another major war in the ME. I hope Trump will do the same. There is now Russia-Turkey broker truce in Syria but that is a hollow victory. Look at Aleppo which is a bombed out inhospitable city. Most of the people were evacuated. UN condemned Putin's indiscriminate bombings. How long will the truce last ? I hope truce and peace will last a long time but I am pessimistic. It is like a cat and mouse game. GOPs blamed Obama for withdrawing all the US troops and not keeping some of the troops leaving behind as police guard force to prevent chaos. That is a baloney and will not work that way. Look at the recent shootings and terrorist attacks in US and western nations. It is very scary. If the US troops are there in ME they will be like sitting ducks. There is no US military solution there unless the two major players in ME, Saudi Arabia and Iran want to talk together for a peaceful solution.
dmaestro 08-Jan-17, 22:31	Bush went through Congress and the UN? LOL. What crap. There was an understanding with both he violated that he would come back for final approval. Bush kicked out the UN weapons inspectors who correctly said there was no active WMD program www.berkeley.edu and attacked before he was questioned too much. Anyone associated with the military knew enough to know the decision for war was made months before (we now know the summer before) and that this was all a flimsy pretext for war. Approval based on lies is not legitimate. Cheney is behind this and thinks he's saved but he is going to hell and is responsible for too many deaths. They are war criminals. If they were not leaders of a superpower they would be prosecuted. The point is lying is ok as long as it is right wingers doing it.
stalhandske 08-Jan-17, 22:34	Arrt should be court-martialed "...should be tried for war crimes" is quite different from your original claim "Obama and Hillary are war criminals". I would have thought that if someone in the army openly accuses his Commander-in-Chief of being a (war) criminal he would (and should) be court-martialed. Of course Arrt hides behind his internet profile so cannot be caught.
stalhandske 08-Jan-17, 22:36	Ace Thanks for that post! I think we agree on most of that.
dmaestro 09-Jan-17, 00:06	A dirty secret is the military does not represent the population but is much more right wing. Go to any military base and in common areas like mess and residence you find Fox News everywhere. Miltary press tends towards the right. Furthermore cells of right wing extremist political recruiters like art noise are endemic in the services. One side effect of a volunteer force and als insufficient civics education in the military.
thearrtofnoise 11-Jan-17, 14:33	Berkeley Is a Communist Faculty Lounge.
thearrtofnoise 11-Jan-17, 14:35	The US Armed Forces is multi-plural. We are a-political and vote whatever direction we want to. There is no mandate. But it's not lost on us that the Democrats treat us like feces and Republicans take care of our training and pay raises. We know what's up. You don't.
saintinsanity 11-Jan-17, 14:35	dm It's quite possible you made all of that up.
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