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ace-of-aces 23-Apr-19, 20:41	Should illegals and convicted crimials have the rights to vote ? youtu.be Watch the above youtube video. One of the audience questioned Bernie Sanders whether Boston marathon bomber who is on death row has the right to vote. Bernie Sanders said yes. I disagree. Another presidential candidate Buttigieg was asked the same question. He said no. Bernie Sanders is the front runner even ahead of Joe Biden among 2020 Democrat presidential candidates. His idea of " Bait and switch " approach such as free Medicare for all, free college tuition might be appealing to the masses but I am not sure the voters will bite his bait.
chaz- 24-Apr-19, 09:01	...I think there are legitimate penalties for legal convictions. I can also understand the supposed human "rights" that all citizens must enjoy in the U.S. Perhaps one compromise here could be that as convicted felons live out their sentences, that each be awarded the unequivocal right to vote upon completion of their incarceration... and perhaps to earn the right to vote prior to completion for good behavior for 'x' period of time. In any case, I do disagree with Sanders' position that all felons can vote.
stalhandske 24-Apr-19, 09:11	This is a question of principle. In my country, the worst felonies were earlier judged to not only be imprisoned but also to lose their "rights as citizens". Meaning, of course, losing their rights to vote. That was abandoned in our system - I think in the 70s or 80s. We might discuss this ad infinitum, but I think a criminal gets a sentence, and that need not include loss of the right to be citizen!
chaz- 24-Apr-19, 09:14	stalh... ...I'll have to ponder this further. I've never given this much thought. Let's keep this convo going.
jonheck 24-Apr-19, 10:33	chaz Agree! <there are legitimate penalties for legal convictions. Our prisons are filled with folks suffering those legitimate penalties, and they will continue to face many barriers after they are released. Those barriers are a testament to the lousy recidivism numbers in the US. Going after those barriers one at a time is better than doing nothing. Yes on felons having the right to vote, perhaps not while incarcerated! Jon Ace: <should (non citizens) have the right to vote>? Of course not!
jonheck 24-Apr-19, 10:40	stalhandske <question of principle. What is your country's law regarding felon voting rights today? Jon
apatzer 24-Apr-19, 11:04	Deleted by apatzer on 24-Apr-19, 16:02.
zorroloco 24-Apr-19, 15:17	Only citizens Are allowed to vote. As it should be. Felons should be allowed to vote. Period. Unless, perhaps, their felonious crime involved election fraud or malfeasance.
zorroloco 24-Apr-19, 15:20	On a note of order I’d strongly prefer the term illegal aliens, illegal immigrants or personas sin papeles (without papers). Using the term ‘illegals’ is both inaccurate (the people are not illegal, their presence is) and imprecise (couldn’t the term easily apply to all lawbreakers?). Please consider using appropriate language.
apatzer 24-Apr-19, 16:06	IMHO If a person has paid their debt to society. They should be allowed to participate in society. Barring any court mandates that are specific to thier case. Illeagal immigrants, should not have the right to participate in our elections in any capacity at all. As they are here illegally and not a citizen. However the moment they achieve legal status, then yes. *** Zorroloco thank you for the correction. I completely agree, my other post was written in haste. Illeagal immigrants are abused in this country and it is by design. As long as they are used for cheaper labor (which Republicans seem to have no problems with) A path to citizenship will always be opposed by Republicans.
apatzer 24-Apr-19, 16:10	P.S. And before some people comment (in defense of) Trump having a plethora of illeagal immigrants working at his properties. And before you claim falsely that he had no knowledge of it. I ask this... Did Trump fire the person's responsible for hiding them, supplying them with false documents etc? Answer... Nope.
stalhandske 24-Apr-19, 20:47	It may appear obvious that a non-citizen must not be allowed to vote. In Finland this is indeed the case in the case of election for President or election for Parliament. However, in Municipal elections and elections of EU representetives a non-citizen may acquire voting rights under certain conditions, such as having lived in that municipality in Finland for a minumum of two years. At present, felons do not lose their voting rights in Finland. Some felons used to lose it before the 1960s (or so). Then convictions for crimes explicitly included "loss of citizen rights" if the crime was serious enough.
ace-of-aces 24-Apr-19, 21:55	Illegal is iellegal but it is not difficult to make it legal. youtu.be apatzer said : Illegal immigrants, should not have the right to participate in our elections in any capacity at all. As they are here illegally and not a citizen. However the moment they achieve legal status, then yes. --------------- That is what Nancy Pelosi wants to do. She introduces a bill to make them legal. You don't need a rocket scientist to figure out why she wants to do that. When the illegal immigrants become legal, they will thank Democrats and will vote for them in the next election. Don't get me wrong. Trump did the same thing before. He wanted to give amnesty to DACA dream people but there was a catch point in his bill. He wanted to build the wall which Democrats did not like it because if there are more II with open borders, it will benefit the Democrats. It is becoming more difficult for Democrats to woo black votes. Obama was an exception because he is a black. More blacks voted for him but blacks did not trust HRC in last 2016 election. They stayed at home without voting either of them, Trump or HRC. That is the name of the game.
ace-of-aces 24-Apr-19, 22:09	DACA Dreamers youtu.be Here is a longer version of the above message. The following message implies that while Democrats prefer to kill their own babies by abortion and replace them with DACA kids. ---------------------------------- Yazz John14:6 2 weeks ago I'm sorry but I really tried to listen to the whole thing but I can’t take the hypocrisy of the Democrats, killing babies but calling dreamers “kids” since when do they care about families? The left are emotional unstable... let’s hold the sappy stories and stick to the facts !! Cynthia Vasquez 1 month ago (edited) The first ones you need to blame is your parents don't blame the government don't blame Trump don't blame the system the blame goes on to your parents knowing that they were undocumented and you are also keep on putting President Trump in a spot which he had no need to be in other presidents had every single chance to DACA Trump just picking up the pieces there were many presidents before him who didn't even bother care to give residency permanent residency and the Democrats who all DACA who could it change your status where are they now so many insults towards our president so many demands that it accommodate your interest and faces demands you need to come threw the front door like the others Show less
zorroloco 25-Apr-19, 05:32	Ace Your last two posts were borderline insane. Are you ok?
chaz- 25-Apr-19, 09:17	...according to governmental agencies dealing with immigration, the correct term is "undocumented aliens" or sometimes just the acronym, ""UDA" or "UDAs" when referring to them. I think this is the best word I've seen for this particular group.
zorroloco 25-Apr-19, 11:05	Chaz I’m ok with that. But I’m not hung up on particular verbiage. I just seek accuracy and precision. ‘Illegals’ is lazy propaganda.
thumper 25-Apr-19, 11:10	Ace <Should illegals and convicted criminals have the rights to vote?> Illegals - No Convicted criminals - After their sentences are completed... Yes, all rights restored.
ace-of-aces 25-Apr-19, 20:28	Thumper, stal and others. www.msn.com Thanks for the responses. I agree with your statements that II have no rights to vote. I myself is a legal immigrant when I first came to US. I did not have the rights to vote until 5 years later when I became a US citizen. Even the legal immigrants can be deported if they commit any significant crime before they become US citizen. There is a story of US Muslim woman who went to Syria and got married to ISIS terrorists. She wants to return to US even if she is sent to prison for her crimes. Should she be allowed to return to US ? My next question is, "Not only voting rights, but also should a convicted criminal be allowed to return to normal civilian life, if he or she is well reformed after serving his/her terms ? The above link is the story of a convicted robber Mr Elliott who is reformed and become one of the top student in the nation. IMHO, they should be allowed back into main stream society to do a good job.
chaz- 26-Apr-19, 11:52	...perhaps it depends on the crime. Most jurisdictions have lingering loss of freedom from those convicted of being a sexual predator or other similar behaviors which ended in sentencing. Actually, these folks are sentenced for life even if they serve one year incarcerated.
lord_shiva 28-Apr-19, 15:44	Ace is Right <<My next question is, "Not only voting rights, but also should a convicted criminal be allowed to return to normal civilian life, if he or she is well reformed after serving his/her terms ? The above link is the story of a convicted robber Mr Elliott who is reformed and become one of the top student in the nation. IMHO, they should be allowed back into main stream society to do a good job.>> If we can return citizens to society without the stigma of sentence of past crimes, it behooves us to do so. I'm with Ace--they paid their penalty--their rights should be restored. Except the right to bear arms for violent criminals. Too bad for them.
jonheck 30-Apr-19, 10:37	lord_shiva Their rights should be restored, and I suspect most of those rights are from a legal perspective. Societies perspective is the bigger of the problems. Guns? I'm biased on that one! Nothing against the ex cons, (most of them), but just about anything that would keep just about any type of gun out of the hands/onership of just about anyone would be OK with me. Jon
chaz- 01-May-19, 09:42	...yes. Upon completion of term, all voting rights should be restored. Some rights for a few felons (guns, sexual predators, etc.) may also need subsequent restrictions (that have nothing to do with voting).

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