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matthew_romoser 22-Sep-05, 17:32 |
 POLL: Where are you on the polical spectrum?The question is: On a scale of 1 to 9 (a Likert scale with an actual 'center' equal to 5), where "1" represents a Far Left (Nader Loving, Green, Peace Loving, Hemp Smoking & Wearing, Tree Hugging, Volvo Driving, Free-loving, Kool-aid Drinker) Liberal and "9" represents a Far Right (Limbaugh Loving, Neo-Con, Global Warming Denying, Bible Thumping, Business First, War Hawkish, Tax Cutting, Deficit Boomer) Conservative, where would you fall on that scale? For those of you who are secure in your political stances, please feel free to use fractions! ---------------------------------------- Personally, I would probably fall in the 4.5 range. Centrist with slight liberal leanings. Mostly on education issues. Matt |
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chuckventimiglia 22-Sep-05, 17:34 |
I would be the ...... |
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matthew_romoser 22-Sep-05, 17:37 |
Of course .... I already know how to pronounce "NUCLEAR" (NOO-CLEE-ERR ... not NUKE-YOO-LER, Mr. President!!!). Matt |
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anomalocaris 22-Sep-05, 18:15 |
im |
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coyotefan 22-Sep-05, 21:42 |
I am a 1, 10 |
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Put me down for a |
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wingetj 01-Oct-05, 17:42 |
2.5, and a liberal from Utah to boot ;-) By the way, I'm Jeff. I just joined the club. It seems a little more tame than the last political club I joined here at GK. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 05:44 |
Hello Jeff!! is more tame. Seems people like to talk "trash" instead of debating the issues. I voted for Clinton then for Gore after Clinton. I then voted for Bush in his second go around mainly because the Dems had nothing different to offer. Yes, under Clinton we seemed to be doing much better in the economic front but there was the start of a recession as he was leaving office. Iraq is costing us money and lives and the 2 hurricanes did not help. all the "experts" seem to agree that the tax cuts actually kept the economy going strong. I do not know!! All I do know is for me personally we are doing fine. I think taxes will need to be raised. I do not see any other way to pay for all the stuff that is going on. What we could do is "tax" the illegals as they come across our southern border. Seems we cannot do anything to stop them so why not put a turnstyle at the boder and charge them as they come across. |
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wingetj 02-Oct-05, 07:46 |
Chuck, I tend to measure the economy by how my family is doing. My wife and I are both teachers and should be happily in the middle class. The problem is that we live in an isolated area and the cost of gas and propane (used to heat our house) is absolutely ridiculous. So, we struggle a bit more than I think we should. My other economic measure is the federal budget deficit that has gone from a large surplus to a deficit of epic proportions. I understand that 9/11 and the hurricanes didn't help, but neither did invading Iraq, which I think was Bush's choice and completely unjustified. I just worry when I hear people like Tom Delay say that government spending is as low as it can be and that they have finally fixed all the over spending of the dems. If I recall, it was the dems who had a balanced budget and a surplus, while we wallor in a deficit under this new "low-spending" government. It seems like Delay needs to do a reality check. I like your idea of taxing illegal immigrants as they cross the border. We are way to easy on these people who break our laws and take jobs from Americans. On that same note, however, we send way too many jobs to third world countries instead of keeping them here in America because of relaxed trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA. As a nation, we need to learn how to be self-sufficient, and I fear that we are becoming increasingly more dependent on other nations right now instead of less. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 08:13 |
I am guessing your last club was.... nothing was debated it was all USA bashing rhetoric. Much of it made no sense. They attack Bush and the US just because it is Bush and the US. Our economic policy is being managed, I believe, by Greenspan who has been in their for many years. Some say too long. We all measure the economy on how it affects us individually. I am hoping that the govt. wizards know what they are doing. Sometimes I wonder if they really do or if they are not really promoting their own self interest. Speaking about "self interest" the handling of the illegal situation is all political and the Hispanic vote here in the US. We should shut the door anyway we can. I am in agreement with a "guest worker" program. At least we will have more knowledge of who is here and who is coming here. In south Texas they have had referendums against English as the "only" language. There are people that want the schools in south Texas to be taught in Spanish. I think having a knowledge of more than 1 language is a big plus but the primary language in this country should be English. About Iraq!! We went in thinking that Sadam had WMDs. This was the thought in most intel circles not just Bush's. That has proven to be a false assumption so what do we do now? Do we leave? Do we stay? Ho long? etc etc. I for one am getting a very cunical outlook on what is happening in Iraq. I am a retired military officer and I am tired of our politicians sending the military to war and then not allowing the military to conduct that war. They did it in Vietnam and they are doing it in Iraq and Afghnastan. We are always so worried about what the world will think so the politicians take over, the war is dragged out and we look just as bad as we would have looked if we would have done the job and gotten out. We have no business trying to democratize any country. I thought from the start that trying to democratize Iraq was a crazy idea. I really do not think it can be done. We are really not making any headway no matter what our Politicians may be saying. I, for one, think we should pack up and get out. Serve notice to the world that any attack on us or our interests will be met with force and I do not mean troops. Invading a country is only needed if you want to stay and exert your influence. I like what Gen. Curtis LeMay said during Vietnam. "We will bomb them back into the stoneages." He really did not care about world opinion. We should not commit our military unless we let the military do the job as best they know how. Believe me if we acted forcifully without regard to the UN and world opinion we will give radicals second thoughts about bothering us. Go bother France, Germany, Holland etc. About "outsourcing". I think this is the result of business pure and simple. The American worker in many cases has raised himself [wages] too high for our companies to compete. I really do not know what we can do about that. We do need to be more self reliant. We should have long ago developed more fuel efficient cars, alternative energy source and yes I think we should drill in Alaska, th Gulf of Mexico etc. Let the Arab countries eat their oil. That is their only commodity and if we cut down on usage it will hurt them. With the emergence of the Chinese market for oil I do not know if that ploy would work any more. It would have years ago. As a nation we have lost our patriotism an nationality. We are a hyphenated society. Mexican-Americans, African-Americans, Italian-Americans etc etc. We no longer consider ourselves Americans. About education!! When London was bombed I asked my 21 yo daughter in law. "Did you read about the bombings in London?" She said "Yes!!" Then I asked her the $64K question. "Where is London?" She did not have a clue. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 08:46 |
I think LeMay said that about.... Not for sure anymore!! |
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wingetj 02-Oct-05, 09:01 |
I'm surprised On WMD, I do believe that there is sufficient evidence to at least ask the question if intelligence was manipulated by the administration as justification for war. If intelligence was manipulated to send our troops in to harms way, I think that it is deplorable and that those who were involved should be rooted out and prosecuted vigorously. Concerning education, as a teacher, I firmly believe that there are a couple of huge problems with education right now. 1- we don't teach kids how to think anymore or to value education for education's sake, 2- we have forgotten the arts in education, 3- we test kids to death instead of teaching them, and 4- none of the education initiatives that have passed put any accountability on parents. I'd like to see an initiative that would give tax breaks to parents of students who make the honor roll or join the PTA. I think that you would see parents take a more active roll in education, and scores would improve. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 09:49 |
I do not want to believe that.... Many countries had the same intel. I do not think that we were in cohoots with the French, English, Russians etc. I think Saddam played a bluff and lost. About Education in the US. Not every kid needs to go to a University. We do have a need for the "trades" like electricians, carpenters etc etc. I do not think the US owes every kid an education. I do think the US owes every kid a chance for an education. Parents today use schools as their "babysitters". They leave all the education of children up to the schools and play little if no part in the education of their children. What can parents do better? They should periodically sit down with their kids and speak to them about the importance of an education, they should ban some of the music their kids listen to, they should toss out the TV sets or at least monitor what their kids are looking at etc etc. I stated that the parents use the schools as their "babysitters" they also use the TV, music etc as their "babysitters" when their kids are not in school. They have to play a more active role. In this country schools place more importance on baseball, basketball and football than they do to education itself. As a result we are increasing the welfare roles for minority kids who think that they will all become muti-millionaires in "pro ball". About my kids. My daughter is 29 and my son is 27. They went diametrically seperate ways concerning school. They both achieved their individual goals and they both are doing very well today. What was my philosphy about school. I always pointed to education as being "their jobs" for the first 18+ years of their lives. While in middle school my daughter came home one day and told me that her friend's parents had $90K set aside for their daughter's education. She then asked "How much do you have set aside for mine?" I told her "$0" I also told her that if she wanted to go beyond high school to get a scholarship. That there are plenty of them out there and if she worked hard in school she could easily earn one. I told my son the exact same thing. The outcome was this. My daughter earned her way into a "special school" for the gifted and talented. She graduated Salutatorian. Prior to graduation she came to me and told me she was going to apply for scholarshis given by Asian groups [my wife is Chinese]. I told her "No!!" "You can get a scholarship based on your academic ability." She received full 4 year scholarships to Universities too numerous to remember and put here. She chose the US Merchant Marine Acadamy in NY. Don't ask me why!! It was her choice. A very good school!! She then chose the toughest course they had and that was Marine Systems Engineering [Mechanical Engineering]. She graduated in the top 2%. She was hired by a very large marine insurer. Her company paid for her MBA. She has been with that company now 7 years and is doing super in her life and career. She has a B.S. in Engineering and an MBA My son!! He was the teen from hell. He achieved his goal as well. He was being expelled from HS. I was called into the Vice Principal's office more than once threatening me with his expulsion. I told them "Why are you telling me this? Tell my son and if that does not do the trick then expel him." They were shocked but my son was totally beyond repair due to the "rights" that have been endowed onto our children by the state and federal govts. They have so many rights that the parents have lost all of their rights to bring up and discipline their children. My son failed SHOP!! How do you fail SHOP? He did. Both my son and my daughter achieved their education goals. My son dropped out of HS before he was expelled. He then got his GED and joined the Marines at 17. I gladly signed the paperwork giving up the "parental rights" I had lost to the govt. many years earlier. He lasted 3 weeks in the Marines came back here and quickly got married. That lasted about 3 years!! During that 3 year marriage he went to work for an electrical company at minimum wage. Then I think it was about $5/hour. He had a very very tough time of it. He saw the light at sometime between 18-22 and while working for that electrical company he was OJTing and studying for an electrician's license. He finally tested and passed. He remarried at 24 to an 18 yo. Now he has his own house, a 10 month old son and a 7 month pregnant wife. Which will be 2 kids for him and his wife. His son is only 10 months old but I hear him talking to him about education and the importance of it. My son at 27 is a licensed electrican and the foreman of a 10 man "crew". He makes good $$$. The moral of that story is that even parents and the schools cannot educate people that do not want to be educated. ) I know I may have done a bunch of things wrong handling my son but believe me it was tough with the "teen from hell." He turned out ok and that was all that mattered. He did it his way. I have seen friends of mine buy their kids an college education and their kids did not want to do that or be there and today that money was ill spent. Not every kid needs to go to college and I think we as a country have lowered our standards just to get every kid into college thus demeaning the value of higher education. Where am I wrong? |
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wingetj 02-Oct-05, 09:59 |
I don't think you are wrong. As for WMD, I don't know if we'll ever know for sure. I just believe that the question should be asked. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 10:07 |
About Iraq!! I do not use the term "cut and run." I prefer to use the Kenny Rogers song from "The Gambler". We should be smart enough to: "Know when to hold them and know when to fold them." We should fold our tents in Iraq and leave. If we as a govt. learned anything at all from the experience it would not be too bad. BUT I doubt if we would learn from the Iraq experience. History has a history of repeating itself. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 10:14 |
BTW, my grandson and soon to come..... With a heavy emphasis on Mexican since my daughter in-law is of Mexican ancestry. All I know is that whne they grow up and marry they better stay in this part of the country because I really do not want their hyphenations to grow. |
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wingetj 02-Oct-05, 10:22 |
Interesting, Here's a quote that I think might put it into perspective what we've learned from the past. It comes from George H. W. Bush and Brent Scowcroft's book A World Transformed. I'm quoting it from Joseph Wilson's book The Politics of Truth, and I therefore do not know the context in which it was said, but it sounds quite prophetic: "Trying to eliminate Saddam...would have incurred incalculable human and political costs....We would have been forced to occcupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq...there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land." To me it appears that George W. could have learned quite a bit from already written history, written by his father and the people around him during his presidency. However, I don't think that he learned much from that history, nor do I think that he, or other leaders after him, will learn from the quagmire that we are in in Iraq. Just a thought. |
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chuckventimiglia 02-Oct-05, 11:02 |
I agree!! we did not learn from Vietnam and we will not learn from Iraq. I do however believe we are in grave danger today and we need to confront and eliminate it. How do we do it is the question. I guess we will go on "thinking fast track" when two or more nuclear devices are set off in our cities. Not a question as to if it will happen but when. I was in the military for 20 years from '65-'85. I was in and around SE Asia from '67-'74. I saw and did things unimaginable but we are doing it all over again in Iraq. I am not talking about committing atrocities but things you can imagine happen in a war. The American govt. and the American public in general really do not know about war. People get killed, buildings get blown up and cities get destroyed. That is war!! So when our Congress and our people give the thumbs up to go to War they should not be surprised as to what happens. Maybe in the next War we should send 1 Congressman or 1 Congresswoman to be embedded with 1 Battalion or squadron of military. Put them right up in the front lines. I predict the war would be over much more quickly and after that War would be given more thought before comitting our troops. I also believe that the Draft should be re-instated. Every able bodied 18 yo male and female do 2 years of training. No waivers for anything other than medical. Maybe a sense of patriotism and a little discipline will be instilled into our young people. I know I am a radical in some sense of the word but we as a country are as the song goes "Slip, slidding away." |
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leo_london 03-Oct-05, 16:01 |
Matthew.. |
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chuckventimiglia 03-Oct-05, 16:05 |
I figured you for the far left!! :-) Europe is and heading to the 0.001 on Matt's scale. We are catching up though. The US is following Europe's lead. I see the cliff ahead!! |
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Matthew We were on holiday in the Carribean over easter & someone told me that only around 25% of Americans have a passport is this true? If it is it is no wonder your daughter in law does'nt know where London is Chuck!! I am not sure if your boys in Iraq & anywhere else they have been sent to are included in this figure. Do soldiers need a passport? |
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leo_london 11-Oct-05, 06:36 |
Chuck.. Dave...Dont suggest more passports !..we see enough of them already. Only kidding, you are all most welcome...would be happy to share a drink with any of you that happen to be in my neck of the woods. |
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chuckventimiglia 11-Oct-05, 06:48 |
The military does not need passports but.... gear is a passport [used to be anyhow]. Travel between NATO countries there is no passport required [may have changed]. Travel to some contries passports are required but visas are not if the stay is less than 2 weeks etc. My daughter in law and my son and others of their age unfortunately do not pay enough attention in school to remember anything. I think it is a shame that my daughter in-law has no idea where London is. |
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Jeff, just wanted to comment on your idea, ---------------------------------------- I agree with a lot of your education ideas. In fact, I really like the last part. That's a very interesting idea that I had never heard before. Even if it were just a modest tax incentive, it would be interesting to see how it would effect the scores as a whole. There is no doubt in my mind that parents need to take a more active roll in their children's education. (Luckily my wife puts in overtime in this area, because I'm lacking.) Anyway, I agree that we need some education reform, and that's one of the few areas that I would support paying more taxes if we had some good ideas how to use the money to make things happen there. |
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passports We had dealings with US immigration when we visited Peuto Rico tell me is the fact they where black shirts significant? Are they allowed to smile & be pleasant? Or is it part of their training to be so goddam miserable? |
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chuckventimiglia 12-Oct-05, 06:54 |
I have never been to Puerto Rico but I...... are Purto Ricans. I do not know about the black shirts but I think they all should be happy they have a job even though the job may be "boring" like it must be in that kind of job. I have been through very few "passport" lines but all of the ones I have been through I was dog tired and grouchy. Maybe my and all the other people's attitudes coming off long flights rubs off on the people at customs etc. Just a thought!! |
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peurto Rico What was ironic was that they are complaining about the illegals coming from Dominica & about people from other islands taking their jobs! There is a population of around 3 million of whom 1 million are below the poverty line & the average income is $4 an hour!! I can see why some of them want to become a state but am struggling to understand why some do not want to! Back to the immigration people over the 2 weeks they were the only unpleasant Americans we met perhaps it is a requisite of the job!! |
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chuckventimiglia 13-Oct-05, 06:56 |
I do not understand all there is to..... about to say may be incorrect. If someone knows otherwise please inform me. I do not think that Puerto Rico pays the federal income taxes that are paid by people in all 50 states. Puerto Ricans are considered citizens of the US in every way that I know but do not have some of the "unpleasantries" of being a State. Like I said I am not sure but I think I am right. |
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coyotefan 15-Oct-05, 07:06 |
Chuck, I wish you were correct |
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chuckventimiglia 15-Oct-05, 07:14 |
I agree with you about legislating morality etc. right in saying I was an atheist because I am. That being said I do not care what religion anyone is as long as they practice what they preach. I do not care if we say "under God" in out pledge or if the 10 Commandments are displayed everywhere. Does not bother me in the least. In fact, these idiots that fight the pledge and the 10 commandments are trouble as far as I am concerned. Along the same line people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are "dangerous" people as far as I am concerned. They seem to have found a spokeperson in Bush which I am sad to say. There spouting of religion and mixing it with the politics of the day is wrong. The recent statements about assisinating Chavez and a few other statements does nothing but cause international problems and make Bush and the US look no better than Al Queida. |
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