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From	Message
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 04:15	Hillary Loses maybe now she will slide to the bottom of the pile where she belongs...........I envision a day where we do have listen to her stupid cackle any longer and look at her face in the media.
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 04:46	more good news The Republican turnout was about 115,000, up on the 2000 figure of 87,666. For the Democrats it was even higher, with some 239,000 turning out to register their choice, up from 124,000 four years ago. twice as many dems as repubs come out.
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 08:40	jeff from the heading of your last post I see we again have found some common ground. It is very interesting that the numbers where so dramatically different then the last caucus, and I believe that it was a profound statement by the democrats in several ways: 1) They are ready for a change..........that was obvious before the caucus, as they have only been shouting that from the rooftops for the last 8 years. 2) they turned out because they wanted to make a statement against the Clinton's, having Hillary in there would be a death blow for the next election, as I believe as many do, that she is totally unelectable. If she wins the nomination (which I seriously doubt) it would be handing the election to the republicans on a silver platter. It is interesting to note that a lot of the quote unquote democratic vote yesterday was comprised of a great number of independents. Let us not forget that fact.
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 08:47	tlr maybe. i am not a huge hillary fan, but i do not despise her as you seem to. i would happily choose obama, edwards, or hillary over huckabee, romney, guilianni, or mccain.
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 09:40	despise is rather strong........but I definitely do not like her. she has way to much baggage. Believe it or not I am not a Huckabee fan either. If it came down to Huckabee against Obama, I might actually vote for the latter............hoping that his positive message of unity is the real Obama...........but it remains to be seen. Edwards would just be bad all the way around, He is all about Edwards and the position........of all of them he is the biggest phony I think. I still hope that a true conservative will raise to the forefront........there are at least two in the race.....they do not get much coverage............we will have to wait and see. If you base you decision solely on party lines, you are not as open minded as you pretend, I reference the following statement by you: << i would happily choose obama, edwards, or hillary over huckabee, romney, guilianni, or mccain>> I think a McCain/Liebermen ticket would be very interesting and may be what this country needs to de-polarize it. Though I like Liebermen a whole lot more then McCain. With Guilianni and with Romney you are getting nothing more then liberal leaning moderates.........which I am surprised you would stand against............get off the party lines you might find it more exciting.
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 10:00	tlr it has nothing to do with party lines. i have crossed those lines before. it is about ideas and issues.
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 10:03	jeff after my diatribe this two line retort was the best you have to offer? It would appear that you are basing it totally off party lines...........just because you say it is not, does not make it so..........convince me.
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 10:18	issues war, taxes, reproductive rights, immigration, and the environment.
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 10:42	well, I see that was pointless................. thanks for the indepth discussion.............your wisdom obviously far exceeds my ability to understand. Oh, to be as wise as you.
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 11:03	tlr what the heck do you want? an indepth analysis of each candidate? if you are really that interested, you can compare my beliefs with the candidates statements...it is not like i hide my values and beliefs!
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 11:15	hey I just thought a discussion would be nice...............stop typing if that's what you want. excccccccuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuseeeee mmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 11:33	tlr finally, you got something right: "your wisdom obviously far exceeds my ability to understand."
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 11:51	Deleted by theloneranger on 04-Jan-08, 12:08.
zorroloco 04-Jan-08, 11:55	Deleted by theloneranger on 04-Jan-08, 12:09.
theloneranger 04-Jan-08, 12:07	as this thread is obviously going no where and jeff is obviously wanting to be antagonistic today we will just abandon the attempt for an intelligent conversation. I once again made the fatal error of thinking you could have an intelligent discussion with him about anything. the proof remains for all to read
leo_london 05-Jan-08, 08:58	Could someone educate an ignorant Brit about the way you go about choosing candidates ? What does this defeat for Hillary actually mean ? who is favourite for each party after this initial vote ? Just out of interest, the betting here still makes Clinton favourite for the Democratic nomination.. Hillary Clinton..8/11 Barack Obama..5/4 John Edwards..20/1 For the Republicans Rudolph Guiliani And John McCain are both quoted at 5/2 with Mike Huckabee at 7/2.
zorroloco 05-Jan-08, 09:02	tlr if i were a strict party line sheep, i would clearly support obama, edwards, or clinton. i actually do support two dems, but they are kucinich and gravel. this is based on, believe it or not, their stands on issues. in this case, i do believe that all the dems are better than all the repubs. the best of the repubs is mccain...and i do not like him much at all. if i had to rate the three dem frontrunners, they would be edwards, obama, clinton. i find it amusing that you think i base my choice on party lines...particularly odd when we are talking about a primary election. i know we disagree on a lot of things, but i would think that you would recognize that i do think about my beliefs.
zorroloco 05-Jan-08, 09:23	oh yeah ron paul is ok as well, although more of a libertarian than a true repub...
captaingoodvibes 06-Jan-08, 01:38	Deleted by captaingoodvibes on 06-Jan-08, 01:39.
captaingoodvibes 06-Jan-08, 01:39	Leo said: <<could someone educate an ignorant Brit about the way you go about choosing candidates ? >> I'd be curious for a quick heads up too. Also can someone help me understand why there seems to be such a strong negative reaction (by some) towards Hilary Clinton?
saintinsanity 06-Jan-08, 02:03	I can't help you with the details on politics, but I can give you my opinion on Hillary Clinton. I don't like her for president for two reasons. First of all, it would make the list of U.S. Presidents look like this: ...Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton. For some reason I don't like the idea of that. But most importantly, I don't respect her for staying with her cheating husband. I don't want someone like that in the white house.
zorroloco 06-Jan-08, 09:30	mark i can only speak for myself. i think her politics are Ok...not great, but fair. she is not far enough left for me...too main stream. i find her too much of a smooth talker, too much of a lawyer, too prone to corporate influence. i would certainly choose her over any of the republicans, but i rank her lower than most of the dems...i am not 100% sure why...i just do not trust her that much.
zorroloco 06-Jan-08, 09:38	leo it is complicated. first there are primaries or caucuses in all the states. each state picks a candidate from each party. then there are the national conventions (for each party) whereby the party selects its candidate. then, in the general election, each state votes, and (mostly, although there is at least one exception), each state casts all its electoral ballots for the candidate who won the general election in that state. it is possible, and has happened, that a candidate can win the popular election (i.e. get more votes), but still lose the election because of the way electoral votes are distributed (see 2000 election). this is a quick overview. for more, you can go to: www.socialstudiesforkids.com it is designed for kids, but is pretty accurate, and a bit more detailed than what i wrote.
leo_london 07-Jan-08, 01:10	Thanks Jeff, that Link helps. I was pretty clear about how you run general elections, somewhat similar to ours but on a Presidential basis. A party here can lose the popular vote and still gain power, a lot depends on the boundary commission and how parliamentary seats are allocated. Many years ago we had so-called " rotten boroughs " where corruption was rife..only a comparatively few votes were needed to win these boroughs and obviously they could be easily bought. I am still not sure why Hillary is still favourite ( at least with the bookies ) for the Democratic nomination when she has lost this first primary (?) and trails in the opinion polls ?
theloneranger 08-Jan-08, 16:50	Deleted by theloneranger on 08-Jan-08, 16:55.
zorroloco 08-Jan-08, 16:59	a religious man if he is a fundamentalist of any religion, that scares me. if he were a devout christian (huckabee) he scares me. if he is a devout mormon (romney) he scares me. if he were a devout muslim (??) he would scare me. i do not really care what mythology they believe in, as long as it is tempered by a realistic attitude and an understanding that they were elected to run our country on this earth, and that their beliefs about some fantastical afterlife can have NO bearing on what they do as president. i do not care if he is a muslim, buddhist, catholic, mormon, or jew. as long as he keeps his religion way the hell away from our politics, he can believe in the tooth fairy for all i care. tlr. your prejudice is showing. you act like being muslim is grounds to expect someone is out to destroy us. as if thw .001% of muslims who are terrorists speak for all. do you actually know any muslims?
zorroloco 08-Jan-08, 17:01	tlr oh sure, delete the post after i respond : (
theloneranger 08-Jan-08, 17:50	sorry it was error filled......grammatically, and seeing as I am thinking of closing this club down, I thought I would move it to you club.........truly I am sorry about that.
leo_london 09-Jan-08, 01:37	Should we have a new thread now...Hillary wins ?
saintinsanity 09-Jan-08, 02:35	she did? crap! I don't want her.
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