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 pawnie |
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Jeff argument when I return...hope you are well. You had quite a storm there awhile back... DoK |
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dok yeah...it rained a bit here...but we are used to that. it is mostly the fools who build houses in a flood plain who got hit. blame the logging companies for a lot of it. |
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Apologetics? |
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thumper |
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Jeff |
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thumper |
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Jeff |
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softie everything has a down side. religion, drugs, food, everything. there is no panacea. we all choose our own way... believe me when i tell you that i am very clear on the down sides of rec drugs...and i have made my choices. |
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sorry i patiently await a reasoned response vis a vis my previous comment to dok. |
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gotmeanothername 17-Jan-08, 08:08 |
oh boy... Jeff ... why does one bother? If that were the case, it would not be called a belief now, would it? My point is, that you must be part of the LIVING TRADITION of faith. A faith that has been handed down through the generations has become a way to live by, a recipe for happiness and moderation. How on earth are YOU going to investigate all that? Islam that has been handed down through the generations can not be extremist. It is the guys like you, who would take a Bible or Koran text, and put it under the microscope, and ask WHAT IS THIS? , in a paranoid state of alienation, who are in danger of becoming extremists. The major Christian faiths in Europe have no problems to investigate their own place in Life. I guess it is the same for the majority of Muslims , Hindus or Buddhists. It is the new converts, born-again believers with no background or tradition that I am afraid of. "no middle ground? hello? middle ground is what allows people to live together and not kill each other. middle ground is learning, adapting, and growing to function in a changing world. "no middle ground" is the language of extremists." True, the CS lewis rationale is very dangerous of taken out of context. Jesus offered the people of his time the middle ground, by choosing to put Humanity in the middle. Man is not made for the sabbath (= phariseic religion) , but the sabbath made for man. "you are allowed to think that, but in this thread, i believe you have to explain why. you cannot just cite scripture as proof of anything. " This is not quoting scripture, to prove anything, it is just to indicate that Cristianity is not about literal narrow-mindedness, these are the pharisees. One should always keep on thinking and doubting, but your arguments about changing times are NO justification for a tabula rasa. Human relationships have ot changed and will not change, and that is just the thing that religion addressess. |
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star so you are saying that, in order to be a belief, it has to be based on faith? so, i cannot believe, for example, that the capital of washington is olympia? i guess i disagree. we believe what we believe...sometimes it is based on what we know as fact (the capital of washington is olympia), and sometimes it is based on faith (jesus is lord). as far as faith being passed down for generations, i see that as no great guarantee of a recipe for happiness and moderation...some traditions are cool, and some are most certainly not. are you trying to say that the fact of it being a tradition and a faith makes it de facto worth following? |
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gotmeanothername 17-Jan-08, 10:03 |
faith and belief The point was, that faith can not be called faith if you can pick it apart. That is why good theologian scholars more often than not lose their faith. The people in the Middle East certainly could use some self-criticism, and perhaps the caste system in India is a particularly nasty tradition. What I'm trying to say is that people should acknowledge the belief systems that are part of their cultural heritage , and try to make make it work. I don't believe in the New Man/Woman in a Brave New World. Frankly, civilisation is crumbling here, and what do we get in return? The hunt for money, fuelled by fear of being left behind in the personal and global rat race. And we are part of it, at the mercy of the maelstrom, no matter how enlightened, open-minded and tolerant we think we are. Some hope of a better world after death would be nice, and for many some fear of hell, too. But I'm rambling on, this is more suited for my grumpy old man thread. |
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star |
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Nice use As for the topic change, I consider the point made by softaire not to be the commencement of a new"pot" argument which Jeff can never justify and of which others will never convince him, I conclude that we return to the issue of "Faith." I am still ill...and lack energy in general, but will be back to sack you Jeff. Arrrrggghhh! Dok Ps...i do think that asking for scientific evidence was a misstep since there is plenty of evidence that pot is harmful. You left the door too far ajar on that one. I would have narrowed the topic if I were you. But I suppose you will ignore it anyway. Oh...and this is w/o a google: Pot smoking leads youths in significantly large, numerical enumerations to try other even more harmful drugs. See how easy that was... Now back to Sunday School boys... |
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deadofknight 17-Jan-08, 19:29 |
Deleted by deadofknight on 17-Jan-08, 19:29.
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Nice one DOK |
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zorroloco 17-Jan-08, 20:10 |
Deleted by zorroloco on 17-Jan-08, 20:11.
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dok and eqj pot leads to other drugs precisely because of prohibition, silly! if it were legal, and in the liquor stores, people would not have to come into contact with the pushers of other drugs. see how easy that was? by the way, these other pushers only exist because of prohibition as well...and the profits go to buy guns for gangs instead of towards treatment if it were legal and taxed. eqj, the difference being that drug laws put people in jail for smoking pot, but not for believing in god. i am not arguing that pot is good, just that it should not be illegal. in truth, i am not defending pot...just my right to smoke it without fear of jail time. by the way, i would be just as adamant about the ills of putting people in jail for believing in god...but we do not do that. your arguments are so simple...can't you do any better than that? |
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eqj you however, claim an invisible man in the sky (whose existence can only be proven by arcane 'logic' and faith) will save your immortal soul (of which we have no proof even exists), but only if we call him by a certain name and believe a certain way (out of literally thousands of ways to worship him). thanks, but i will stick to a 'god-given' plant whose existence i can be sure of and whose use makes me feel nice for a few hours : ) |
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saintinsanity 18-Jan-08, 02:16 |
DOK: Regarding gateway drugs |
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Jeff |
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eqj |
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Thank You |
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