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From	Message
searcoid 14-Dec-07, 02:00	Fighting Warriors vs Rybka (Part 6) game Na4 was our last move.
hjemcall 14-Dec-07, 02:36	Puzzled and wondering ... No offence to anyone, but it seems to me that if Black was thinking of 17... b5 anyway, our playing 17. Na4 and, only a move a later, having to pull back the knight to where it came from is a complete waste of time. What is/was our plan here? Luring Black into playing its own plan? Besides, as to that more or less expected rook exchange on the a-file, what is it to us? Is it what we have to aim for, or is it serving Black's purposes? What are we actually doing on the queenside? Are we trying to ward off Black or to press forward? None of this is very clear to me, least of all why we were supposed to play 17. Na4 in the first place. I don't see how it serves our purposes (which ones?) in any way. Well, I should have said all this before we played 17. Na4, shouldn't I? True, but as I recall, I did express my doubts about 17... b5 and 17. Na4 earlier, and nobody saw fit to enlighten me there. In fact, I'm still waiting to learn why/how 17. Na4 (to be followed probably by 18. Nc3) is the best move against 17... b5 (or Black's plans behind it).
omacron2 14-Dec-07, 04:05	17...b5 Well my friends hejmcall makes some valid points however Na4 threatened Nxb6 if Rybka played Junior or HIARCS move 17...Ra7 then the line would have gone along these ideas 18.Nxb6 Nxb6 19.cxb6 Qxb6 20.Rab1 axb4 21.Ne5 Qc7 with an equal position. But look at the board and see whites plan of e5 but against such an opponent that Rybka is it is akin to be playing Julius C or the great Ghenkis K himself. However this is a positional game and some of the moves have to be played so that gentle maneuvering leads to an explosive phase where the game is won or lost. See team forum, endgame for a good example. As always if you disagree please make your own ideas felt, and that means everyone, irrespective of status, there is only one status that matters and that is we are all Fighting Warriors. Respects to all Bob
gameguy8 14-Dec-07, 06:04	The game This is my first posting almost anywhere as I have difficulty finding my way around on a computer so if I don't find my way back to "the game" let me say that I am in awe of you guys playing. Reading the two postings above I agree with both hjemcall, and omacron if that's possible? Hjemcall, what move would you have made instead of Na4? Please know that you have at least one interested spectator (assuming I find my way back here). Steve
tjbuege 14-Dec-07, 07:30	game So Rybka played 17 .. b5 as we expected. Our only move is Nc3. Right?
qistnix 14-Dec-07, 14:19	Maybe... Or Nb2-d3, defending b4 and controlling e5 once more. Neither square is optimal but I prefer d3 over c3. My apologies for not being too active in this game lately. I'm very busy with my new apartment and will probably take a long time-out in the coming period. I'll try to keep an eye on the game every now and then though...
hjemcall 14-Dec-07, 16:22	18. Nb2 or 18. Nc3 @ Steve (gameguy8): Thanks! As to your question, to be perfectly honest, I hadn't figured that out yet. There were a few moves I thought would be interesting to look into, (Martin's) 17. h4 (to put some pressure on Black's king side), or 17. Ne2, for a similar manoeuvre as Martin has just suggested (to bring that knight to d3, via c1, or else bring it to the king side). Unfortunately, nobody reacted there at the time, so there wasn't much to learn for me/us then. @ All: Two possibilities so far. Following Bob's suggestions we might expect something like 18. Nc3 axb4 19. axb4 Rxa1 20. Rxa1 Ra8 21. Rxa8+ Bxa8, or, as suggested earlier, 18. Nc3 Ra6 19. Reb1 axb4 20. axb4 (in which case Black could, I think, take the a-file: 20... Rda8 21. Rxa6 Rxa6, and I'm not sure I'd like that). Martin suggests 18. Nb2 and 19. Nd3 (can be squeezed in in the lines above). I think I'll second that. As Martin mentioned, the knight may be better off at d3, defending b4 and controlling e5, but I'm particularly interested in this extra grip on e5: might come in handy, as we could occupy both e5 and g5 with a knight, should the need/opportunity arise (I'm not saying we have to). Well, food for thought(s).
tjbuege 15-Dec-07, 17:42	The more I consider this, the more I like Nb2 followed by Nd3. d3 does look like a good spot for our Knight.
tjbuege 17-Dec-07, 13:53	Let's Keep Pace We should probably make a move soon lest those lurking and watching this thread drop off to sleep! Any further discussions re: Nb2 or Nc3?
hjemcall 17-Dec-07, 14:13	18. Nb2 If there are no (more) contributions soon to tell us why we shouldn't, I'd go for 18. Nb2.
gibsonscot 18-Dec-07, 16:49	Nb2 I'm for moving 18.Nb2
gameguy8 18-Dec-07, 17:35	Nb2 Nb2 looks good to me.
searcoid 19-Dec-07, 03:15	Nb2 I prefer Nb2 to Nc3.
rowdyrooks 20-Dec-07, 06:38	Nc3 Nc3 gets my vote !,,,just to be a pain,,lol
hjemcall 20-Dec-07, 10:05	Nice try, Harry! But it doesn't hurt that much (or at least not yet, haha). Let's do a bit of counting. 'Votewise' it's Martin, Tim, Scott, Steve, Oisin and me against you and Bob (I think, but he hasn't said anything about/against 18. Nb2 yet), or 6 to 2 for 18. Nb2. 'Ratingwise' that's 9959 to 3522, or almost 3 to 1 (which, I believe, is rather similar tot 6 to 2), although it must be admitted that things can change quite quickly here, as Bob tends to move upward rather swiftly (and I'll take the opportunity to say that congratulations are in order, as he has just reached the number one spot in our competition table: well done, Bob!). There is of course the silent majority, whose combined ratings cannot be beaten, surely. Yet, as long as they remain silent, it is not clear what they want, so they cannot be counted. And they can't be counted when they say something either, because technically they are no longer 'silent' then and therefore no longer part of the aforementioned majority. Eventually, it's the (non-silent) minority that will decide. Well, the minority that has a majority, actually. So, unless somebody comes up with some solid last minute reasons against it, I guess 18. Nb2 is still our move ...
tjbuege 20-Dec-07, 11:48	Ok, Herman. I have one thing to say after reading that discourse ... you have WAY too much time on your hands!     9959 to 3522 ??? ROFL!
omacron2 20-Dec-07, 12:37	Nb2 I have no objection to this move at all, it is a judgement call. In computer speak then the difference is about 0.4 to 0.12 with Nc3 being the lower figure. As I see it the Nb2s have it. If that is the wish of the majority then lets get on with the game. Seasonal greetings to you all.
hjemcall 20-Dec-07, 13:24	@ Tim WAY too much? I wish that were true, but neither 'WAY', 'too' or 'much' are applicable, I'm afraid. On the other hand: holidays are approaching, so I'll have 'JUST' 'a little bit' 'more' time than usual ...
rowdyrooks 21-Dec-07, 15:04	OK OK ! Lets move Nb2,,,,,by the way,I'm sorry for not participating in this game as of late,but due to work commitments and the fact that the game is moving at a "snails pace" I lost a little interest. Could we please stick with our original pace of 3 days per move, otherwise the game may be coming to a close in the year 2010 ( ha ha). CHEERS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Harry
omacron2 22-Dec-07, 12:42	Rybka plays Ra7 To my way of thinking if you played Nb2 then the reply has to be Nd3 which was the point of the knight move. A word for h4 I think it is still to early to contemplate this move but it pays to keep it in the back of your mind. Respect Bob.
omacron2 22-Dec-07, 12:53	Positional chess In a recent match I played a sequance of moves that typifies the Rybka game. See below for link. game Starting on move 14. I said earlier that positional chess is a slow and patient build up and then pow.
hjemcall 22-Dec-07, 15:33	19. Nd3 (Rda8 20. Rab1) Is there any reason why we should not move the knight to d3 rightaway? I suppose Rybka could be thinking of 19... Rda8, and I'm not sure I'd be thrilled by that, but we can't do anything to prevent that, can we? If that happens, i.e. 19. Nd3 Rda8, I think our concern will be with 20 ... axb4: we can't play 21. axb4 because of 21... Rxa1, and I doubt whether 21. Nxb4 Nxc5 22. dxc5 Bxa1 23. Rxa1 is any good (maybe Black cannot do much rightaway, but our pawn structure is lousy). We cannot avoid this line by playing 20. Reb1 (as in an earlier analysis): 21. axb4 is still not possible, 21. Nxb4 is still met with 21... Nxc5 etc. and the only 'new' possibility, 21. Rxb4 is even worse, as Ra1 is now undefended (21. Rxb4 Nxc5 22. dxc5? Bxa1). Consequently, we should consider 20. Rab1 and 'lose' the a-file to the black rooks: (19. Nd3 Rda8) 20. Rab1 axb4 21. axb4 (not 21. Nxb4/Rxb4 21... Rxa3!) Ra3 22. Rb3 or perhaps even 22. Ng5 (if followed by 22... Rc3 there may be something in 23. Nxe6 fxe6 24. Qxe6+ Kf8/Kh8). If this analysis is realistic, it doesn't look like Black is getting anywhere on the a-file. Well, perhaps then it'll be our turn in the centre or on the King side (h-file) ... Comments, as usual, most welcome!
tjbuege 22-Dec-07, 20:48	Current position game
rowdyrooks 23-Dec-07, 12:46	Agree with Bob. I agree that since the Nb2 move was played with the intention of Nd3,then lets play it now ! It seems that rybka is setting up a possible Rda8,this move does little to concern me for we various ways to counter. Whats every-ones take on the next move???
mysticknight 25-Dec-07, 06:08	Deleted by mysticknight on 25-Dec-07, 06:09.
mysticknight 25-Dec-07, 06:11	Move Nd3. I believe the attack is coming so move the Nd3. Cliff
tjbuege 26-Dec-07, 16:01	Shall We Move? 19 Nd3 seems to be the consensus.
hjemcall 26-Dec-07, 16:50	Yes, let's!
searcoid 28-Dec-07, 06:25	Nd3 I'm good with that too. On another note, stepping back a move and a few comments: @ Herman (and all): " 'Votewise' it's Martin, Tim, Scott, Steve, Oisin and me against you and Bob (I think, but he hasn't said anything about/against 18. Nb2 yet), or 6 to 2 for 18. Nb2. 'Ratingwise' that's 9959 to 3522, or almost 3 to 1 (which, I believe, is rather similar tot 6 to 2)" Not quite accurate my friend. 6-2 or 3-1 is correct, but if you are accumulating ratings, then certainly average is in order, and that turns the tables slightly: 1660-1761 in favour of Harry and Bob!   Now, I have "very little" time on my hands (I work in accounts and it's year end approaching), but it doesn't take long to crunch together a little simple arithmetic! LOL! Oisin
qistnix 29-Dec-07, 06:59	Nd3 I expect black to double Rooks on the a-file, after which we have to defend the b4-pawn. Other than that I still don't see any serious problems for white...
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