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From	Message
pennsylvaniadan 29-Aug-12, 05:47	Ah, this is what I would do---I'm conservative--- Moves so far---1. b3 Nc6 2. Bb2 c5 3. Nf3 g6 4. e4 Bg7 5. Nc3
caknight 29-Aug-12, 12:04	Conservative I think 5.Nc3 is a little to conservative, now black gets the e4 pawn because the Nc3 is pinned, I would have suggested 5.e5.
theoretician 30-Aug-12, 00:52	And Black is not forgiving! 5...Nxe4 Can White continue in a gambiteer style? The moves so far: 1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 c5 3. Nf3 g6 4. e4 Bg7 5. Nc3 Nxe4
rmannstaedt 30-Aug-12, 07:47	yes, we can! So, we have sacrificed a pawn. It does not matter, right now, whether that was actually a "proper" sacrifice or whether we simply overlooked a clever combination - what does matter is that we make the best of what we have. Being a pawn down is not the end of the world; loosing heart is! White is darned well going to win this - and if we don't win, at least Black will know that he's been in a fight! Now, I think we should consider our options a bit *before* making the next move. What is best here - what will give us the best fighting chances? Suggestions, anyone? Off-hand I see at least two viable continuations, both of which seek to take advantage of the fact that White has opened up lines of development into and around the center, while Black is still somewhat closed down: A.) 6.Bc4 Nxc3 7.Bxc3 Bxc3 8.dxc3 with the idea 8...e6?! 9.Qd6! and Black is rather uncomfortable. B.) 6.d4 Qa5 7.Qd3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nf6 9.Be2 with sharp play and kingside attacking chances. Of course White is not bound to follow either of these lines, but they give us an idea of what may be possible. Imagination is the key here! Speak up and give us your ideas - what can and should we do?
pennsylvaniadan 30-Aug-12, 07:54	Would d4 also be an option?
rmannstaedt 31-Aug-12, 10:59	yes ... d4 is an option. But I think a discussion of options - and their dis-/advantages would be nice? Any takers?
brigadecommander 31-Aug-12, 12:04	black has a huge advantage. the best i can see for white is 6.Qe2....d5.7.0-0-0 Nf6.
rmannstaedt 31-Aug-12, 12:19	You're too pessimistic Granted 6.Qe2 d5.7.0-0-0 Nf6, Black will have the center, a harmonious position, and a spare pawn, but White will have a lead in development. Black has an advantage, yes, but I don't think it is "huge".
brigadecommander 31-Aug-12, 12:34	a pawn lost without compensation is not a good thing in chess. Of course Black could make errors and white could turn the tables. But i would take blacks position any day. I am just offering my opinion.
rmannstaedt 31-Aug-12, 12:50	yes, agreed and I am not dissing your opinion. If it sounded like I was, I am sorry. I agree, I would take Black's position too and probably win. But I don't think White's game is hopeless either, just ... more difficult?   Your opinion is valued, not the least because you are probably a tad or two better than most of us. I am here to learn, and to help teach others as well by offering whatever insight and opinion I may have. I think this game is a worthwhile exercise, and if it can teach us something about the hidden resources in difficult positions, then that is all to the good. If no-one else will move for White in the present position, then I will make a move. But I will wait for a bit first - let others have a chance to join in the fun as well
caknight 31-Aug-12, 12:57	White's move 6. 6.d4 Qa5 7.Qd3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6! black stands much better, there is pressure on both white's knights along the long diagonal. 6.Bc4 0-0 7.0-0 d6 is a consideration.
caknight 05-Sep-12, 11:47	Moves No one wants to make a move in this game, that has been the problem with this club for some time now.
brigadecommander 05-Sep-12, 11:54	i will make a move tomorrow unless someone moves before.
rmannstaedt 05-Sep-12, 12:19	6.Na4!? White's move. Just for the hell of it, and because noone else was moving! And yes, I saw your post, brigadecommander - but I would like to give you the chance to reply to this, if noone else beats you to it!   Moves so far: 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 c5 3.Nf3 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nxe4 6.Na4 Have fun! Oh, and the reasons for the move: White's position is not too good, which means he has to make the most of the strengths he does have - mainly, the possibility of baring Black's kingside position by getting rid of that pesky bishop on g7 and gaining a strongpoint on c4 (after posting the knight on b2, should Black capture there). The move contains direct (though simple) tactical threats too, forcing Black to respond immediately to it. All in all I am not at all sure this isn't the actually best move in the position, despite posting the knight "out there" at the edge of the board.
rmannstaedt 05-Sep-12, 12:29	an interesting alternative Considered the line: 6.Nxe4 Bxb2 7.Rb1 Ba3 8.Nfg5 h6 9.Qf3 hxg5 10.Nxg5 f6 11.Bc4 but I think White has run out of steam after 11...e6:
brigadecommander 05-Sep-12, 15:50	i move 6...Bxb2 7.Nxb2.d5
caknight 05-Sep-12, 18:18	move 6...Bxb2 Bridge are you making 3 moves here, 6...Bxb2 then 7.Nxb2 d5 or just suggesting a continuation? Moves so far: 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 c5 3.Nf3 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nxe4 6.Na4 Bxb2
brigadecommander 05-Sep-12, 18:31	I THOUGHT I MADE A MOVE 6...Bxb2. The other 2 moves are 'if' moves.Yes a suggestion of 'if' Nxb2 then d5
rmannstaedt 10-Sep-12, 01:31	move: 7.Nxb2 Moves so far: 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 c5 3.Nf3 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nxe4 6.Na4 Bxb2 7.Nxb2
brigadecommander 10-Sep-12, 09:27	i suggest 7....d5 this inhibits using the c4 square as a base, releases blacks light squared Bishop,supports the Knight on e4 and places a pawn in the center.
caknight 12-Sep-12, 12:13	Deleted by caknight on 12-Sep-12, 12:14.
caknight 12-Sep-12, 12:15	Move 7...d5 Moves so far: 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 c5 3.Nf3 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nxe4 6.Na4 Bxb2 7.Nxb2 d5 White to move
rmannstaedt 12-Sep-12, 12:22	thanks, caknight! I was about to suggest to brigadecommander that she actually make that move, but you beat me to it
brigadecommander 12-Sep-12, 22:10	i move 8.g3 my reasoning is simply to develop the light squared Bishop on the long diagonal and build a reasonable fortified position for the King. It is well known that a 'fianchetto' position is not easy to attack.
rmannstaedt 17-Sep-12, 08:30	teleportation? (or: I move 8...0-0) Eh, sorry to mention this but we seem to have some kind of quantum-mechanic reality distortion on the board here. If you take a hard look at the White knight on e3 - in the previous post - and then go back to White's 7th move, you will see that the knight - at that point in the game - was on f3. And it hasn't moved since... I assume your 8.g3 is still valid, brigadecommander? The reasoning seems sound still. Else, feel free to make another move. Until then, I move: 8...0-0 Reasoning: Black should finish development as quickly as possible, and certainly before doing anything too active. Castling on the kingside is the obvious choice in the situation. Moves so far: 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 c5 3.Nf3 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nxe4 6.Na4 Bxb2 7.Nxb2 d5 8.g3 0-0 White to move.
brigadecommander 17-Sep-12, 16:37	9.Bg2. For the same reason i mentioned before.
rmannstaedt 22-Sep-12, 11:41	9...Nc6 Black is taking control of the center and developing his officers. I would like to find other good reasons for this move, but I think that's it. I would like it do to a bit more, but development is always good... Moves so far: 1.b3 Nf6 2.Bb2 c5 3.Nf3 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Nc3 Nxe4 6.Na4 Bxb2 7.Nxb2 d5 8.g3 0-0 9.Bg2 Nc6 White to move.
brigadecommander 24-Sep-12, 04:24	I move 0-0 . i had considered Nd3 but that provokes Qd6.I don't want to provoke any developing move by white.
theoretician 26-Sep-12, 01:22	10...e5 Black is already up a pawn and by playing 10...e5 Black is gaining more space and control in the center. This pawn can be supported later on by Re8. On the other hand, Black still needs to think about the development of the light squared bishop. At the moment there is no good square for it. For example, 10...Bd7 would unnecessarily block the queen form watching the d5 pawn, 10...Be6 would unnecessarily block the e-pawn, 10...Bef5 is refuted by Nh4 and so on. The diagram after the move: The moves so far: 1. b3 Nf6 2. Bb2 c5 3. Nf3 g6 4. e4 Bg7 5. Nc3 Nxe4 6. Na4 Bxb2 7. Nxb2 d5 8. g3 O-O 9. Bg2 Nc6 10. O-O e5
caknight 26-Sep-12, 12:06	The Black Bishop There is always Bg4 for black. Black needs to get the rooks out as well as the bishop.
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