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From	Message
grege79 27-Jun-11, 15:26	Would you eat in vitro beef? www.dailymail.co.uk This is what I have been waiting for. I wonder if people that are concerned about the welfare of the animals they eat will make the switch or if they will see it as unnnatural. I would give it a crack! But that isn't saying much. But my money is that the majority of people will reject this outright and want to keep killing animals for their food.
ace-of-aces 27-Jun-11, 21:21	I was thinking like that before. Instead of slaughtering poor cows why can't we make beef in the laboratory and eat. There are many gentic engineering products out of the labs recently. for example, genetic engineered corn has more yield and is more resistant to drought and pests but there are environmental concerns. If we introduce the new corn variety, what will happen into existing natural corns. Will it later transform into pests or poisons? There are many examples of exotic animals and plants not native to the country and become nuisance in Australia and America. Recently big and fast growing salmon was created in America but it has not yet approved to be released for environmental concerns. The same is true of artificial beef. We have to study environmental and health concerns. Sometimes, we don't know the hazards beforehand until it is released for general consumption but by that time it will be too late to repair the damage.
itchynscratchy 28-Jun-11, 07:09	the daily mail always come up with scaremongering stories like this that middle class people enjoying getting in an outrage over. Frankly I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it into a gale! In any case, what would the problem be? If the tissue is indistinguishable, what's the harm?
grege79 28-Jun-11, 18:00	I agree, it is a populist piece, wholesale is about 20-25 years away. In Australia we just had a big issue over live exports of animals and the way they were treated. The whole smacked of populism and disinformation to me, the net result was a bunch of farmers have lost their livelihood. But the ideal to treat animals well before slaughtering them is worthy, if not somewhat oxymoronic. But the push came from the left, it will be interesting to see what the left majority would say about lab beef. I would run with it no worries. Reminds me of another point though, the 'chemical free' selling point. What is it they are selling exactly? A void?
itchynscratchy 29-Jun-11, 05:28	<<Reminds me of another point though, the 'chemical free' selling point. What is it they are selling exactly? A void?>> Things like this from food sellers always frustrate me. They imply that anything 'natural' must be better for you, and I would really like anyone who believes that to try my deathcap mushroom pie!
ubermensch43 29-Jun-11, 10:39	studies... studies... and studies again!! Absolutely no problem with in vitro beef, as long as safety studies establish safety without the shadow of a doubt. If the majority of studies are conclusive and a consortium of scientists agrees, it should be no problem. Same can be said about "the chemical free" pseudoscience. The truth be said, perhaps the most important thing needed in the world right now is a paradigm shift in people's conceptions of truth and valid cognition. Somehow scientists must aggressively try to convince people to accept something as true only and only if it passes the tests of science and the "check-and-balance" of peer-reviews. The only way out the present quagmire is for all governments everywhere to make science education their topmost priority, popular or unpopular as it may be. Until then, we will move as slowly and frustratingly as a tortoise. No other way around it.
ace-of-aces 30-Jun-11, 21:46	Japan is supposed to be one of the most technological advanced nation in the world and yet they could not prevent the recent tsunami nuclear disaster. In the same way if we introduce artificaial meat, there can be also unforseen health hazards but the genie is out and we cannot stop the making of artificial meat. This is like going into uncharted sea. In the beginning we can have some problems but in the long run we can solve the problems. Nowadays, animals dog, cat, horse, starting with Dolly the sheep can be cloned. I am sure, human beings can be cloned but for ethical reasons there is moratorium on human cloning. I wonder, what are the ethical concerns and why can't we workout the ethical problems of human cloning?
itchynscratchy 01-Jul-11, 01:12	ace you can say that there may be unforseen consequences but you can say that about literally any technological advancement. Should we stop scientific and technological pursuits altogether because of something that it may or may not cause?
grege79 01-Jul-11, 06:55	I don't think it should restrict us, however as technology advances, the consequences of faulty processes can be pretty bad. Like the hadron collider, lucky to dodge the end of the world there   But on a serious note, the fear of the consequences can become a limiting financial factor, a big issue in biotech, particularly medicine research. However the fear is warranted, with products such as thalidomide or even more recently the development of the cox2 inhibitors raising the risk of cardiac events. But many of the breakthroughs in the past were by scientists with less than satisfactory checks and balances, well that is by today's standards anyway, these products can be harder to get into market and with less tolerance for on or off target adverse effects. I think computer modeling at a molecular level will aid in efficient bio research moving forward But tying into your point I&S, I think that the concern for what it may or may not cause, whatever the field should be consistent across different populations. In short, progress should not be limited by fear, be that shown by outright banning or over regulation. If scientific progress continues to outpace general education, without efficient communication programs, then we may start to see knee-jerk reactions and bottleneck funding effects.

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